59 replies to this topic

[Uff da]

O.K., first, I'm not trying to spark a flame here. I want to buy a founders package, but I want to figure out what PG's interpretation of F2P is before making my investment.

I have spent hours reading all the speculations and trying to find official comments and I am left with confusion.

If the model was anything like this:
http://youtu.be/AWMBeLrZoyw

I'd buy in this second... but I am just confused at all the varying posts at this point.

PG, can you let us know the definitive answer here?

Can you offer a FAQ of what micro-transactions will be in the game and how they will affect it?

I know it is not only myself that would be willing to throw down the $ to help finance this thing if we had a definitive answer.

Uff-da

[Naherven]

I'm with Uff da on this one. I really hope this F2P model follows Blacklight Retribution's (i.e. everything can be bought with C-bills and real world money, just that money can unlock higher level items/ camos for lower level players.) I REALLY hope it isn't like Combat Arms (i.e. money buys you exclusive items/upgrades that in-game points cannot).

[stealthed]

This game is not p2w since each and every mech can be bought with ingame currency as well as money and each and every weapon can damege every mech. The devs already stated there will be no gold weapons etc. The founder's mechs are not p2w either, they just earn more cbills. It basically boils down to either bypassing a grind with direct payment or doing it the hard way. The end result will be the same, how fast you get there differs. Can't give you any details however because of the NDA. I suggest you read the devblogs and watch the vids they put out. Hope this helps convincing you

BTW: if you don't want to pay now, its no problem either. Open beta is not far away. Just don't start a whine thread about how it's unfair etc etc since we have enough of those already

Edited by stealthed, 31 July 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[Name48928]

So far as PGI has announced, the only "advantage" cash can give you in MWO is a bonus multiplier to c-bills and/or experience points earned per match. Everything else is supposedly purchasable with either cash or in-game c-bills.

But the full business model has not been released yet, so there is no definitive answer.

[Uff da]

stealthed, on 31 July 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

BTW: if you don't want to pay now, its no problem either. Open beta is not far away.

Stealthed, waiting for Open beta is a nobrainer.. but I'd like to throw down my support for PG now as a founder.

For me though, it would be much easier to justify if we had a more official word regarding the micro-transactions. I'll keep looking in the dev logs, but I just think this is an issue that PG would want to clarify for everyone.

F2P is kinda like the bible.. peeps interpret it in different ways. ;-)

Uff-da

[Trip580]

Uff da, on 31 July 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

F2P is kinda like the bible.. peeps interpret it in different ways. ;-)

Uff-da

Thank you so much for putting a smile on my face after such a **** day friend:-)

[Xathanael]

I hope it is pay 2 win!!! I can't wait to assassinate poor people with my Golden Clan Mechs!!!

[Roughneck45]

everything that they have said indicates that using real world money will not give you an advantage on the battlefield, it will simply cut the grind down on getting things that you want.

Anything that is strictly a cash only item will purely cosmetic in game, or for quality of life outside of the game, such as the amount of mechs you can own at one time or something similar.

[genetixsparkz]

The devs already stated there will be no gold weapons etc. If there is no special money only mech. Which has been stated, and no money only gear, it's not pay to win.

Pay to win actually isn't that popular with major titles either, it's well known that P2W ends up alienating and ultimately is bad for your bottom line because only invested players invest money and its hard to get new players into a game and have them become invested if they lose every game to P2W mechanics, it's not that P2W isn't profitable, but it's not as profitable as the alternative.

I think the worst fear would basically be a game where paying skews the game in your favor but not enough for people to take much notice. World of Tanks includes premium ammo, but it's not THAT MUCH better, it's certainly possible to overcome, so people just kinda meh and they still play. If they offered a 3-5% boost in chances, lets say a premium engine that is 5kph faster, well alot of players wouldnt even notice that. It wouldn't break the game with its imbalance and often it might not even affect the match at all, but it would overall skew it slightly. That would kind of suck but that I believe would be the worst to be expected.
my 2 cents.

[rooster]

i dont have the money to pay a monthly subscription why would i play a free game to be beaten by people who pay to win? as if being poor was bad enough, my financial situation effects every part of my life and now its effecting my escape. sure as hell money makes the world go round.

[sekraf]

OP: perfect vid, i SO wish i'd seen that a long time ago, because it'd be absolutly PERFECT for explaining to some peeps why:
.
F2P + microtrans =/= P2W
.

[Pook600]

rooster, on 31 July 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

i dont have the money to pay a monthly subscription why would i play a free game to be beaten by people who pay to win? as if being poor was bad enough, my financial situation effects every part of my life and now its effecting my escape. sure as hell money makes the world go round.

Whoa...... No one can buy a better mech. The free player is on the same footing as the paying player mechwise.
I think you need to re-read.
There is no pay to win. You can play the same game as everyone else.

[Hezi Baer]

from 3:34 ...
Should answer your question.

[AsakuraZero]

the economic model is the same as in league of legends and that should be posted on the main page.

that was said a lot, even mentioned by the devs, being a founder and saw how things work ingame i can assure you everything looks good.


this is not pay to win, and i hope it stays on the league of legends model (skins and other things), this have been discussed a lot. i think you put play to win and about 1000 threads will appear

hope that im not breaking NDA im not giving details .-.

[Solver]

As far as i understand from all the reading i have done, this is a free to play game and not a pay to win game.

In my opinion a game is pay to win if you can buy a power advantage over non paying people.
For example a weapon that does 5% extra damage, or a ability boost like you run 10% faster.

I do not consider faster leveling, a ugly pink hat or cutting infront of the line to get into a crowded match to be pay to win.
Those are only for convenience and vanity.

In the gray zone we have for example maps for premium only.
I don't technically count that as pay to win, but i sure don't like it.

Edit: great clip Uff da, every developer out there thinking about microtransaction should be legaly bound to follow it's suggestions.

Edited by Solver, 31 July 2012 - 02:05 PM.

[Mechsniper]

Ok, I come here from a long time combat arms experience. IMHO There will necessarily be items that give you a SMALL edge in order to make the game a profitable buisiness model. CA went way too far. They started out with good intentions, BUT they introduced specialists with nx only(or ridiculous gp costs that make buying them with gp a hopeless venture) and epic weapons that totally dominate any who face them. Some of these items give such a huge advantage (robotic turrets that kill unattended) they totally blew the f2p world into p2w. It is now sad some of the items they put into a once promising game.
Here is a prediction that may be unfounded. I believe that some clan tech is going to be Pay to get(think nx only mechs or variants). I will be saving my Founders bucks for that day, as I want a timberwolf and a vulture (may these be seen soon) . Also Clan pulse and clan ppcs will probably fall along the lines of something you will be able to purchase to get a very small edge, but not guaranteed victory. These items could become unlockable as you go up in rank, or skill etc, for c-bills. The new guys will pay to get this tech earlier than by earning it. I can live with that. You can play the game with an Atlas, but if you like the uber cool stuff, you wait until you pay your dues in the rank structure, or buy it with $$. Fair? I think so.
I like the free part of this game, but Russ and Paul et al must eat and have beer money!!!! I will not complain about some pay items, unless they give too much advantage to the buyer. Mech skins, and such are also no brainers for pay to get items.
Here's hoping they continue on the improvement of the game. I am obviously routing for a game we like that makes them money without having to buy the new $ item to keep up with the Joneses, mhrr hrr , Steiner-Davions.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Thing about it is everyone has a different defination of what P2W means. For example, some will interpret options to gain more experience or C-bills faster as P2W because people who pay real money can advance their mechs faster. This unfortunately is unavoidable.

Still waiting for me status to change to founder so haven't played but from what I have read/seen, seems like this game is going to be WoTs without gold ammo and all mechs, from the smallest to the largest, can damage all other mechs and be effective.

What it appears you can purchse is:

- Premium accounts that will allow you to earn more C-bills and Exp. Keep in mind that this IS a competitive advantage no matter how you look at it. Sure anyone can eventually grind to the same levels but premium account holders are going to have all the perks, much faster than non-premium account holders. They are also going to have the money to upgrade to better tech and weapons fast. This again is a competive advantage so some are obviuously going to interpret this as a P2W scenerio.

- Cosmetic Appearences. This obviously doesn't mean anything other than looking cool.

- Mechs (Likely). Don't think they have outright said you can purchase mechs but this has been implied. However we don't have a clue what format they will fall into. They could be standard mechs just like anyone can pilot only with increase income potential. However some will claim the extra money gives an unfair advantage and makes the game P2W. The could be rare variants, but then another person will claim the rare variant is OPed, thus again making the game P2W. Then they could just be the same old variants you get while playing but someone, somewhere is going to complain that this allows you to skip over weaker variants F2P players have to grind through, thus makign the game P2W.

- Mech Bay Slots - hey I think we are safe from the P2W situation here.

- Elite Exp conversion (Gamestop video) - Real money to convert elite exp so you can bypass the bad mechs...again this means P2W...right?? hehe.

Then if they make it just like WoT where running the top tier mechs cost extravagant amounts to repair, thus requiring you to have a premium account or a premium mech to be able to afford them, well that is another P2W senerio right there hehe.

Point is the game has to make money some way or else we don't have a game so if you can through any amount of blood, sweat and tears, have the same advantages as someone who paid for convience, then the game is still F2P.

[Taxi Driver]

Why did the OP link to a video on www.youtu.be instead of www.youtube.com ?

Aren't those fake-spelling sites often used for malware attacks?

[Nauht]

F2P - oh look another Atlas-D facing me. Same armament, damn he's not bad but I was the better pilot and blew the crap out of him.

P2W - oh look another Atlas-D facing me. F**k he's bought gold ammo and nothing I do matters; his shots just shred me s**t.

MW:O has no 'gold' items.

[Vreith]

So far it's not P2W from what i have seen. however WoT has gold ammo, not game breaking, and even if they released some "gold" ammo for ballistics and missiles it probably wouldn't game break as it still require you to shoot and hit and missiles can miss. but if WoT teaches you anything, playing with gold ammo is going have you spending 20 bucks a day if you play 30 odd battles a day all gold ammo, most people do not do it in pub stomps (maybe clan wars as you can win money), its just not worth the money to do it, that doesn't stop me keeping 1-2 rounds in the tank ready to load up if im the last one alive and a little outmatched by what's left, and it may not even help me win as all it does is chance penetration value, not how much alpha damage you do.

hope it stays F2P, but smart P2W like what WoT did i can't have a problem with, as its not realy P2W, just reduces skill level at targeting weakpoints on tanks, instead aim at the front somewhere and shoot you did damage! no extra dmg tho from a normal round