31 replies to this topic

[Alistair Steiner]

FireNova, on 09 January 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, at least SOME people see through the "Smoke Jaguars are the pure evil faction in BattleTech" propaganda/media bias. Nice to see that the spotlight on "evil deeds" is not just limited on the Jaguars like it usually is.

Well, Turtle Bay is a fairly good reasoning point when it comes to pointing fingers at the Jags. But there is no "good" and no "evil" faction, even among the smallest planetary powers. The FedSuns just make me sick because they spout so much self-righteous nonsense that you'd think their... eh, coolant didn't stink. Not that every other faction doesn't hold itself as self-righteous to some degree, but the Davions take the cake, in my opinion.

[Joe Davion 86]

Wulfsbane - I don't think he was saying Victor killed his mother, just that it was the same assassin

[FireNova]

Alistair Steiner, on 09 January 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Well, Turtle Bay is a fairly good reasoning point when it comes to pointing fingers at the Jags.

Only difference being that the massacre on the PLANET of Turtle Bay took place in a CITY (Edo) whereas the Draconis Combine killed off almost an entire population on THE PLANET (you know, like multiple continents/cities/areas we are talking about here) of Kentares IV (Kentares Massacre) back during the First Succession War (not like very many people would care to know about that since Jaguars are indeed evil no matter what in the eyes of many of course ). Course the whole "shades of grey" argument ceased to be ever since Twilight of the Jaguars so I guess either way you could say both factions (CSJ/DC) share the same type of blame, regardless of how many innocents were killed in both cases by both sides and the fact that there IS a media bias against the Jaguars sadly. Regardless there ARE Jaguar survivors out there (like an unknown/uncomfirmed number of them plus the fact the warship Streaking Mist escaped destruction and hell knows what other ships/personnel etc) and hopefully post Dark Age maybe we will see the "shades of grey" argument be made viable again once more as the Smoke Jaguars reestablish themselves and allow new/future players to have the option/freedom of roleplaying/playing as the Jaguars in the tabletop and computer games once more in current eras of BT. (None of this "being stuck in the past" or "be stuck in a particular era of BT" BS.) That argument just doesn't fly anymore in the current, modern age, and hopefully will not fly in a game such as this where it NEEDS new blood to continue the greatness of BattleTech.

[Dihm]

Now now, you can't throw Kentares at Kurita without throwing Wolverine at the Clans.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Throwing Who?

Dihm, on 09 January 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Now now, you can't throw Kentares at Kurita without throwing Wolverine at the Clans.

Historically the IS wouldnt know about the existence of Wolverine (or any of the Absorbed Clans) until after 3060 when the Clans history was laid out. Yes yes Anastaius Focht went there and got all this information handed to him and found out about Phelan yadda yadda; he wouldnt have found out about Wolverine (they being the 'UnNamed Clan' in the list of 20), nor the Absorbed Clans since once absorbed it's 'unseemly' to mention the former Clan. Seriously do you think any Human Militarily Based form of Governance would divulge, or at the least have the info buried so deep it would take years to dig out, their foibles like they did? We only have all this information at hand because we are Omniscient. As for Wolverine being as bad as Kentares, the 2 really arent alike. Wolverine knew the consequences (yes even their civilians you have to remember that the society isnt really blindly clueless like it seems Majority America is {Oh upset about that remark are you? Well when Jersey Shore has a Lower Neilson Rating than every show on PBS I'll change it until then it stands. Yes I think Jersey Shore is about the most inteligence Sapping bit of Drivel and if a Nuclear Accident or a Giant Space rock were to Illiminate all of Jersey and portions of the surrounding states I wouldnt be too upset. Yes yes I have aquaintences in Jersey and the Surrounding areas and I would be upset because they were gone but that would be it.}). The population of Kentares wasnt set up as such a rigidly 'controlled' (cant think of a better word atm) population as the Clans are. Honestly folks its like comparing Hiroshima with say the Firebombing of Tokyo. Both horrendously devestating, one done with just one bomb which destroyed the population in seconds the other lasting for days AND taking more lives and property as well as using more resources in the execution thereof. BTW isnt it suspected that Minnesota Tribe are some left overs from Wolverine?

[Ghost]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 09 January 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Throwing Who?

Historically the IS wouldnt know about the existence of Wolverine (or any of the Absorbed Clans) until after 3060 when the Clans history was laid out. Yes yes Anastaius Focht went there and got all this information handed to him and found out about Phelan yadda yadda; he wouldnt have found out about Wolverine (they being the 'UnNamed Clan' in the list of 20), nor the Absorbed Clans since once absorbed it's 'unseemly' to mention the former Clan. Seriously do you think any Human Militarily Based form of Governance would divulge, or at the least have the info buried so deep it would take years to dig out, their foibles like they did? We only have all this information at hand because we are Omniscient. As for Wolverine being as bad as Kentares, the 2 really arent alike. Wolverine knew the consequences (yes even their civilians you have to remember that the society isnt really blindly clueless like it seems Majority America is {Oh upset about that remark are you? Well when Jersey Shore has a Lower Neilson Rating than every show on PBS I'll change it until then it stands. Yes I think Jersey Shore is about the most inteligence Sapping bit of Drivel and if a Nuclear Accident or a Giant Space rock were to Illiminate all of Jersey and portions of the surrounding states I wouldnt be too upset. Yes yes I have aquaintences in Jersey and the Surrounding areas and I would be upset because they were gone but that would be it.}). The population of Kentares wasnt set up as such a rigidly 'controlled' (cant think of a better word atm) population as the Clans are. Honestly folks its like comparing Hiroshima with say the Firebombing of Tokyo. Both horrendously devestating, one done with just one bomb which destroyed the population in seconds the other lasting for days AND taking more lives and property as well as using more resources in the execution thereof. BTW isnt it suspected that Minnesota Tribe are some left overs from Wolverine?

Woah there. I think you ought to calm down a little.

[Dihm]

For the record, it wasn't an Absorption. It was an Annihilation.

Quote

For the next two months, the Wolf force systematically destroyed the Wolverines' holdings, demolishing buildings and forcibly sterilizing their civilian castes. All sibkos containing Wolverine genes were terminated according to an edict passed by Nicholas Kerensky. This went even so far, that in January 2839 more than 100 Ghost Bear Warriors - and at that time it was not a small part of the whole Ghost Bear touman- with their genes tainted by an isorla Wolverine geneticist with Wolverine DNA were forced by Khan Hans Jorgensson to commit suicide.

I don't see what the point is about our "characters" not knowing about it because it was hidden away. Both groups have done horrible horrible things. Also, technically, the Clans wouldn't know about Kentares since it happened in 2796-97, and the Exodus happened in 2784.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

So your saying that WD didnt send back reports to the Grand Council for 50 years? Who did the Inner Sphere have sending them Info for 50 years before the Invasion? And I think you assumed I meant that Wolverine was Absorbed but I didnt. I meant the other Clans that by 3050 werent in existence anymore like WidowMaker who was absorbed in 2834. How would you as a Character know of the Existence of an Absorbed Clan? I dont think Anastasius had that Information passed on the Him and being ComStar I dont think he would have spread the information he got over a broad spectrum. You have to remember as Players (not Characters) we have all the information on hand. As a Character the only information you would have would be on a Need to Know Basis. To put that in perspective how much do you know as to the Operational Plans for the US Troops in Afghanistan? Even if you are there Boots on the Ground, unless your in the Upper Echelons of Planning you would only know what your specific orders are and not the specific orders of say another Company.

Oh and I dont think they mean Sterilized as in killed outright but Sterilized as in Neutered and Spayed. Yes Horrible, but allowed to live.

Dihm, on 09 January 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

For the record, it wasn't an Absorption. It was an Annihilation.



I don't see what the point is about our "characters" not knowing about it because it was hidden away. Both groups have done horrible horrible things. Also, technically, the Clans wouldn't know about Kentares since it happened in 2796-97, and the Exodus happened in 2784.

Edited by VoodooLou Kerensky, 09 January 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Dihm]

Again, I don't see the need to differentiate what our character knows from what we know. It happened in the Universe/Lore, it's a fact.

[Thorn Hallis]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 09 January 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Throwing Who?

Historically the IS wouldnt know about the existence of Wolverine (or any of the Absorbed Clans) until after 3060 when the Clans history was laid out. Yes yes Anastaius Focht went there and got all this information handed to him and found out about Phelan yadda yadda; he wouldnt have found out about Wolverine (they being the 'UnNamed Clan' in the list of 20), nor the Absorbed Clans since once absorbed it's 'unseemly' to mention the former Clan.

Focht knew about the Wolverine and Widowmaker, as he compiled a report about Clan Wolf in 3052 for all Com Star personal. Noone knows if he shared his knowledge with any leader of the Great Houses. Jaime Wolf revealed the whole story in his report about the invading clans in January 3058.

[Leonardo Monteiro]

By the gods, what are you people talking about??? Clans?? 3060? what???

Its January 10th 3049.
Its not that this year promises anything exciting.

Duh.

Edited by Leonardo Monteiro, 12 January 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Unclecid]

wow...some folks need to unwind a little...

is there an ignore function on these forums if it continues?