27 replies to this topic

[Virgil Caine]

In the TableTop game, Beagle Active Probe basically told you were those mechs were before they powered up anyway, I don't think it will be so simple in MW Online.

"Radar" in real life does not function how it does in videogames, with enemies just appearing as blips randomly dispersed, and instanteneously updated.

In real life, the vast majority of radar used in fighting units are directional. For instance, in fighter planes, Your radar scans a slice in front of you and produces an image on your readout of what it finds. Sensor operators can increase the resolution of the image, or the size of the angle scanned, at the expense of frequency of image update. Radar in the 1980s (Specifically the ones used on the F14 Tomcat.) could take upwards of 60 seconds to produce a Max Resolution, Max Scanning Angle image. 60 Seconds is a lifetime. This is why you had two-seater planes, one guys 'whole' job was to look at the radar and tell the other guy what was out there. Sensor "Skill" became inportant.

Modern radar can do it much more often, and with the advent of AWAC's planes to transfer information, the need for two-seater planes isn't as important.

Another thing to think about is that radar, by definition emits RF... Radio Frequency can be picked up by... Radio...

Active scans will use a specific frequency, and listen for that specific frequency coming back. This frequency, if known, can be programmed in to be listened for by passive scanners. If heard, it will produce an alarm, "You have just been actively scanned" These RF frequencies can occur accidentally, so usually the passive sensor will only alarm if it is produced a couple of times.

Limiting the use of your Radar is a very important element to stealth. By using your radar a lot, you are basically screaming your presence to anyone around you. Anti-Radiation missiles were designed for this purpose, to look for radars and blow them up.

Very high-end Radar, like those used in the F22, can rotate frequencies randomly on each pass. They are very very hard to pick up by these passive listening systems...

A big element to the "Stealth" of the F22, is that it's radar can track you without you knowing it is tracking you. If the pilot knows where you are, he can know where to fly to avoid being seen by your radar...

Now, when it comes to ECM.. you can try to make yourself appear invisible. This is effective, but another method, is to make yourself appear HUGE. Think about it. If you are "Y" size.. tall, and you can make your opponent see you as 5 times "Y" size he has very little chance of knowing exactly where to aim to hit the 'actual' you.

This was used in the first Gulf War a lot, you would have a plane who's job was to look FREAKING HUGE on radar, and hide all the other planes within his bubble. It made it hard for radar-guided missiles to hit them, because they'd just follow this ginormous thing... and you'd be this tiny thing inside it by comparison, hard to hit.

Another effective measure is to blind your opponent. If your opponent is using radar, then just overload his radar with stuff to see. Essentially, you shine a flashlight into his Night Vision Goggles.

That being said, this is only one sensor method that the devs have said should be in the game. If the same depth of above is given to below, then we might have some decent information warfare... It remains to be seen though. Chances are deep, advanced sensor play like this will be seen as 'too advanced' for gamers, and be tossed aside... you'll end up with a very simplified version of all this.

"Herp Derp, I has PPCS blam blam blam!"

[Verminaard]

I'd like a purely audio sound, it would add more of a psychological warfare air to the game.

Walking down a street followed by:
Power up detected
power up detected
power up detected

Without a location this could cause players to freak out and would be just pure fun IMO. At best a vague location of its direction. I'm very interested in any counter measures and decoys type stuff they will add, it could bring it to a whole new level.

[ManDaisy]

Power Up.
"mech powerup detected!"
Shutdown.
Power Up
"mech powerup detected!"
Shutdown.

Rinse and repeat all game long.

[VYCanis]

Virgil Caine, on 09 January 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

snip

^^^THIS^^^

Past mechwarrior games, namely MW4 gave the false impression that ECM = stealth. Behaving like running on passive sensors, but with no real drawbacks.

ECM is about as stealthy as using smoke grenades for concealment. You are advertising to everyone and their mom that you are somewhere around here, they just can't quite get a clear bead on the specifics.

actual stealth where you are trying to move around completely undetected should be reserved to players that are running on passive sensors, running cool, not firing weapons/using jjets, and/or actually using stealth armor.

and on the topic of running cool, simply having a lot of heatsinks doesn't mean a free pass either. The matter would be not producing a lot of heat. Since dumping all that heat into the surrounding air on infrared makes you glow like a christmas tree, even if from a player's perspective they think they are cooling rapidly.

[Kenyon Burguess]

powering up takes time. if the system automatically puts a blip on the radar or declares a mech is powering up theres no point in shutting down to ambush. thats just declaring a free kill

[Dlardrageth]

I think the more interesting question for info warfare will be what exactly happens when a Mech powers down.

Does it instantly vanish from your sensors?

Does it remain as an inactive "shadow" with a special marker?

Does it remain as a shadow for a few seconds and then vanish?

I think all three options have their possible merits, but there can be only one in the end. And this could influence gameplay quite a bit, in particular on larger or heavily cluttered-up maps.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 09 January 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[VYCanis]

you know...some of this stuff could fall under the purview of stuff affected by those modules mentioned in the last update.

like a module that helps mask powerups/powerdowns by doing it a little slower but more gradually, so there isn't spiking or sudden dropoffs occurring on the other people's sensors. So you can power up and power down near the enemy without them getting any sudden warnings.

[Redbear6]

Also one of the things about powering up is that it uses a LOT more power than regular use. For example, your Television, when you first turn it on will draw about 10 to 12 times the power than it normally uses, this only lasts a few miliseconds while the electrical components (Capacators, Inductors, IC's, and Tubes) get to their operating charge. And you can see this if you have an o-scope in capture mode nearby, as a 60 Hz spike in the background noise. I can only imagine the RF spike that kicking over a fusion reactor and the assorted weapons in a mech would create. And since most electrical systems are standardized (to the region here) you can probably get a background system in your threat receiver to look out for those sort of spikes. You also need to remember that RADAR while it can tell you where things are, can be detected at a far greater distance than you can get information from. think of it like a flashlight in a dark room, you can only see the things in the path of the beam, but everyone know where you are.