318 replies to this topic

[Lorcan Lladd]

Maybe it has and maybe it hasn't.

For one thing, I would have though that the whole point of having command roles, for example, was to allow a coordinated team to extensively exploit, weaken and demoralize their enemy forces through feints, flanking manuevers, ambushes and other misleading tactics; I'm not sure I see how this could be compatible with any ideals of 'honor' on the battlefield.
Then again, if it isn't, there is always the possibility for two opposing forces to play a game of honor, discarding tactics and strategy and holding a battle royale or a set of individual duels instead if they can agree to it.

Oh, people on these forums agreeing to something, I'm so funny!

[Rabbit Blacksun]

Thats most of the clans way of thinking ... note i said most

One picks a target and excludes all others ... great in idea ... bad in principle, one circle **** and your SRM'* *** the wrong target and it devolves into a fur ball.

[simon1812]

funy nobody mentioned that (maybe somebody did and i missed it) wasnt it considered dishonorable to aim for the pilot? not so much leg though that was ok.

[Tilley]

A revisit to this topic and a further challenge to implement the idea of honorable duals in assault mode. If I'm not mistaken, MW:O places the highest ELO players in the alpha squad. Therefore you must be defaulted in that squad in order to issue a challenge. At the beginning of the match, hopefully before power up, the challenge to dual and location are given. The opponents would then make their way to the dual area to be observed by all others. Once the dual has ended, the winner declares victory and then decides whether to take a free cap or to commence with battle. If during the dual a player fires upon one of the chosen fighters, that mech is destroyed by the other nine observers to maintain honor. I will be trying this on several evenings this week. If the ELO is not correct in placing highest at the top...then by default the Alpha 1 Pilot has the distinct honor of calling out the dual. This would then be luck of the draw for when you enter a drop ship. Thoughts?

[Rina Fujimoto]

Tilley, on 21 September 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

A revisit to this topic and a further challenge to implement the idea of honorable duals in assault mode. If I'm not mistaken, MW:O places the highest ELO players in the alpha squad. Therefore you must be defaulted in that squad in order to issue a challenge. At the beginning of the match, hopefully before power up, the challenge to dual and location are given. The opponents would then make their way to the dual area to be observed by all others. Once the dual has ended, the winner declares victory and then decides whether to take a free cap or to commence with battle. If during the dual a player fires upon one of the chosen fighters, that mech is destroyed by the other nine observers to maintain honor. I will be trying this on several evenings this week. If the ELO is not correct in placing highest at the top...then by default the Alpha 1 Pilot has the distinct honor of calling out the dual. This would then be luck of the draw for when you enter a drop ship. Thoughts?

We actually did that back in the days of KONG 8-mans once, we had a catastrophic drop failure that left us 3 vs 8 and we jokingly called out for a batchall to the enemy team.

They actually agreed to it and we did a small 1v1 tournament, we managed to take down nearly their entire team through one on one duals, of course when it got down to just me they still had 4 more mechs to go, it was pretty obvious we weren't going to win, but the enemy team was impressed enough that they proceeded to escort me to cap and win the match.

It was fun as hell and hilarious too, this game really needs private lobbies for dueling.

[Morhadel]

simon1812, on 08 February 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

funy nobody mentioned that (maybe somebody did and i missed it) wasnt it considered dishonorable to aim for the pilot? not so much leg though that was ok.

Taking out an enemy by targeting specific parts was considered a sign of being a skilled mechwarrior, such as taking out both legs. and leaving the rest of the mech untouched.


and i don't know if anyone mentioned it but with these two rules.

• Moving out of weapon range is prohibited.^[4]
  
• Failure to fire a weapon when possible is prohibited.

You could use range to your advantage, (your armed with a GR and your opponent has an UAC/20) you could increase the distance between the two of you as long as you were still in your weapons range.
Clanners also didn't just go around constantly alpha striking, constantly shutting down during combat. They managed their heat and weapons fire, the "Failure to fire a weapon when possible is prohibited" was to make sure you didn't hold back when fighting an opponent.
Clanners are honorable not stupid.

[Deadmeat313]

Zellbrigen would be expected in a Clan vs Clan battle, but I believe it was little used in the invasion of the Inner Sphere.

This is even reflected in the OmniMech configurations available. Plenty of "fire support" platforms that would be hampered in a duel.

Admittedly, the configurations available do seem to be designed on the assumption that the Clanners are far more likely to encounter tanks and infantry than a pure Mech force. Zell does not apply vs conventional forces.

[Ridersofdoom]

i miss many MW4 things but i remember also the duels and the private lobbies, where you could choose the people to play and there was a sense of honor in the battle.

Edited by Ridersofdoom, 22 September 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[KingCobra]

(Much that once was has been lost to time) When Mechwarrior2 came online in 1995 many started building the community's leagues and training grounds for a new breed of game player the MechWarrior honest fun gameplay was the objective of league owners and admins and the company's that made the games. On ingame server net.mech leagues and leagues on Kali-Ten-Net-Mplayer honor was supreme players that abused the honor system were banned from gameplay under there chosen names or any others that were discovered for bolth Clan and InnerSphere pilots. Role play was a big part of Mechwarrior2 as was playing in the huge planetary leagues BTU and 3025.From there in Mechwarrior3-Mechwarrior4 Mercenaries honor was less of a issue. MWO has a long way to go to become MechWarrior from honor to private matches and leagues but PGI did do one thing right it is much harder to leg a MWO mech than a former MW2-MW4 mech even with full armor.

Edited by KingCobra, 22 September 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

We might still get all these things.
PRAY.

[Joseph Mallan]

Brunk Kerensky, on 09 January 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

unless both sides agree or a system to penalize the offenders for "breaking the rules" in a match i see no problem with using any means to win.

So you should not be playing a Clan Warrior. They seem to think winning v an opponent with one hand behind their back hopping on one leg is better than shooting him wen he has his guard down.

[Threat Doc]

Read this one quick, folks, as PGI are moderating out positive posts, now.

Many people do not see why they should restrict themselves from any and all tactics, unfortunately. This means they either have a severe lack of knowledge of the lore of BattleTech, or they simply don't care, or if they do care they place themselves on the side of evil. To them, it's all about the numbers, and nothing else.

Had I been able to set up Armageddon Unlimited for MechWarrior II, I could have recruited enough folks who believed in honor and were willing to practice it, and we never would have closed our doors the first time, in '99. By then, MechWarrior III and Pirate's Moon were out and, like KingCobra expressed, honor had little meaning, anymore.

Though PGI has gone a long way to mitigate what used to be known as honor violations in the MW2 and early MW3 communities, there are still a lot of people who refuse to give any conscious thought to fighting honorably, including nearly every MechWarrior I've had in the various iterations of AU. It's sad, and I hope a new and brighter honor code emerges within this community.

[Jayce913]

Legging in MW4 was discuraged becuase it was too easy to leg an opponent and it constituted an immediate kill of that unit. The rule to not leg was introduced in clans because of the weapon difference legging would just massacre IS units without even a real fight. It wasnt as much about the cultural clan as about the game mechanics. Legging is different in MWO while it does decrease yoru speed you no longer fall over like a helpless turtle.

[Imperius]

This honor system will never happen. The only honor system that PGI enforces is GLHF and no trash talk. Pretty much kills all competitive aspects of the game. I just don't bother to type in game anymore due to the babies in this game. This clan wars everyone wants will just be a number, a number you'll have to grind to probably get the Clan Tech/Mechs you want. If it is anymore that that I'll be surprised.

[Kyone Akashi]

How very negative. Yes, there are some "babies" in the chat, but more often than that I've had humorous comments, in-character teasing between the different factions, or even helpful advice.

As for a "Honor System", I think it might be an interesting idea to perhaps implement something like this as part of a balancing factor to compensate the Clans' technological advantage. For example, "no C3" = your team won't share LoS contacts.
I freely admit that I don't really believe this would come, though - not after seeing what the Guardian suite was turned into. On the plus side, it may well be more appropriate to have the community "moderate itself" in the pre-arranged lobby matches that are surely just a matter of time.

[CyclonerM]

Someone is still using some honor. We of Clan Wolf are big enough to make regular 12 men drops and quite regularly we run Trials of Position for new Bondsmen and sometimes Trials of Possession (we even had at least one Trial of Refusal). I love Zellbrigen duels Well,actually i love everything different from the team deathmatches.. We were even trying to organize a race event..

[Tannhauser Gate]

Play the game the way you want to.

If you are a wardog where frags and wins rules all and honor has no place, so be it. If you are a roleplayer or honor-bound warrior then great too. Traditions of honor are strong in the BT lore so there should be provisions for duels and trials, circles of equals in the game so people can do that. They should also be purely optional since not everyone wants to observe it.

[CyclonerM]

LakeDaemon, on 23 September 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Play the game the way you want to.

If you are a wardog where frags and wins rules all and honor has no place, so be it. If you are a roleplayer or honor-bound warrior then great too. Traditions of honor are strong in the BT lore so there should be provisions for duels and trials, circles of equals in the game so people can do that. They should also be purely optional since not everyone wants to observe it.

There is an easy and perfectly enjoyable and reasonable solution: it is called "Private lobbies". You can create your room, no earnings but you can do whatever you want to and play the way you want to. Trainings,Trials, funny events and videos, tournaments and planetary leagues.. Everything would be FAR easier..

[Tank]

Stumbled on this video today, I don't play LoL and I don't know munch about it, but they have implemented interesting honor system that supposedly works for them with the player-base of modern players. I see this as hope for something similar for MWO Clan players.

http://www.youtube.c...bV_KT1iGao#t=83

[Tesunie]

Tilley, on 09 January 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

After reading on an old clan website from MW:4, I remember just how much focus was placed on the honor system. Back then, there were certain cheats that most people knew about and knew how to spot when used. I'm just curious if honor will play such a role in the upcoming MW:0. If I remember correctly, during a lance battle, legging the opponent was considered cheap and dishonorable. I am by no means suggesting that this rule is followed now, but wondering what online ground rules some of the clans might decide to choose. Often times, legging a smaller mech was the only way to hit the d*mn thing and get it to slow down. Legging is just an example, just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts about honor and it's uses for online play.

I recall the unmentioned honor code of not legging other mechs, particularly light mechs. Was actually so enforced that if a legger was playing and did nothing by leggers, someone could call them out, tell the enemy team not to hit them, and they wouldn't attack anyone but the one legger. Was kinda funny, as the legger was shown why you don't like by being legged over and over again by their use to be victim. (My Brother did this often in a Shadowcat. The other team tend to let him be when he announced his challenge. Really funny to be there.)

This game, that honor is no longer enforced, but to counter that, lights are harder to kill here than on MW4.

(I also recall the old movement bots (easy to kill), aim bots (pain to sneak up on) and the "Double to triple armor" hack. Made some people either stupidly easy to destroy, or it took everyone on our team to just turn their armor yellow...)