26 replies to this topic

[Longinus Leichenberg]

Dlardrageth, on 25 January 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

Well, having as many optional features/control schemes available could be seen as "consumer friendly". As could be having more than just one Mech model in game. So on the one hand you cannot really want it to be not at all consumer-freindly unless you also argue for having only one Mech type in the whole game.

Limiting of too many options could be debatable if it allows for tackling possible lag issues. I could imagine a completely unlimited field of fire and grouping could lead to people trying to fire at 5 targets at the same time or something. Could cause some lag issues prolly in the match... which I'd rather not have.

Under "consumer-friendly", I refer to this typical American idiocracy in market laws where the company tries to desperately compensate the absurd dilettancy of the fully retarded consumer. (horrible dictu: "Don't dry your cat in the microwave" or "Don't bind your Eject function to the same key as Alpha Strike.")

About the lag issue, you've got a point there. But the other side of the coin is that "all my weapons will hit the same spot, i.e. left leg". This would devastate the realism of the simulation – because MW:O is a futuristic battle simulation.

[Azantia]

Hmm, this is a tough one. I think the best answer would be to allow both free floating and fixed for different people's play styles, as some with joysticks have mentioned. If people want to complain that a mouse-born mechwarrior using floating reticule has an advantage over a fixed joystick born mechwarrior I would point to the fact that given a choice, your arguement is moot. Canon suggests that targeting systems / weaponry of a battlemech would work similar to the way mechwarrior 3's targeting was, however I can see the point of only having a fixed reticule for the sake of "balance" between joystick-born and mouse-born. Personally the more customization (and therefore control) I have over how I pilot my battlemech the better. Auto torso twist to follow my weapon reticule or manual twist via another medium? fixed or floating reticule, fixed throttle vs pedal throttle (requiring constant "active state or pressed button").

[plodder]

Longinus Leichenberg, on 26 January 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Under "consumer-friendly", I refer to this typical American idiocracy in market laws where the company tries to desperately compensate the absurd dilettancy of the fully retarded consumer. (horrible dictu: "Don't dry your cat in the microwave" or "Don't bind your Eject function to the same key as Alpha Strike.")

About the lag issue, you've got a point there. But the other side of the coin is that "all my weapons will hit the same spot, i.e. left leg". This would devastate the realism of the simulation – because MW:O is a futuristic battle simulation.

Well, they should not hit the same point, unless you were at a stand still, but I know what you mean. The reticle, though freefloating, should vary due to the mechs movement. Lets say you play paintball, you have a freefloating reticle, your arms "float" for your eyeballs, it is difficult to hit the same place if you are moving. If you stand in a truck going 40mph down a gravel road, take a shot at another moving vehicle, or stationary target, it is difficult to hit the same place, this should be the same situation with this game if "freelook reicle" is allowed(I HOPE it will be).

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

MaddMaxx, on 12 January 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

So by Lore all Mechs could flip their arms to fire in the rear arc? Damn. i did not know that. Problem solved.

A gun camera would still be cool though.

Actually, several 'Mechs, although only the Turkina and Savage Wolf come to mind right now, were able to flip their arms backwards.

And the reason why a free-floating reticle should not be included, is simply it makes it too easy. You see a 'Mech, and just point-and-click, and BAM, you hit center torso every time. It takes no consideration for how hard it actually is to pilot a 'Mech, and bring the weaponry to bear.

@plodder: What do you mean a "real 'Mech would automaticly have free look!(add excessive exclamation points here)"? According to canon, 'Mechs are controlled by throttles, joysticks, and pedals, not by a mouse and keyboard. A Mechwarrior does not simply point at a target with a mouse and have their weapons automatically hit the target.

@Slyck: I do not know about before MW4, but the arms of 'Mechs are fully capable of swinging 90 degrees to a side, and combined with torso twist, can fire to the rear of the 'Mech. It is tricky with arrow keys, but doable.

That said, the satisfaction of tracking a target with a Joystick is immense, and immerses you in the gameplay in a truly amazing way. You actually feel like you are at the controls inside the cockpit, minus the heat and impacts (unfortunately)! I personally cannot wait to get my new HOTAS setup, as having a full-sized throttle and button-encrusted stick is going to be simply amazing.

[Lightfoot]

What would give players the greatest "feel" of piloting a 'mech would be the option to use a "Padlock Target" command similar to flight sims. Then the mech-pilot would turn their head in the cockpit to look at the highlighted target, and then use the joystick/controller to drag the main reticule onto the target to aim the weapons.

The 'mech still turns to face the target normally, it's just the pilot looks first and then moves the main reticule onto the highlighted target, by piloting the 'mech with the joystick just as they normally would.

If you had multiple reticules with this set-up there could be an individual track time for arm and torso mounted weapon reticules reaching the main "on-target" reticule. And if the target was to your right quadrant lets say, you would get a very fast aiming response from the right arm, not auto-targeting though. That adds sim-like functionality to having multiple reticules.

Padlock Target is optional, you need to activate the option, usually with a hotkey.

The improvement to realism with a padlock target command is that it creates a mech-pilot viewpoint within the cockpit instead of just a fixed reticule that in essence turns the pilot into just the 'mech. Fixed reticule only is one of the causes of the Quakewarrior effect for me anyway. Where the 'mech feels like a Quake PC instead of a giant robot with a pilot.

(some of this was borrowed from an earlier post on aiming)

[plodder]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 01 February 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

@plodder: What do you mean a "real 'Mech would automaticly have free look!(add excessive exclamation points here)"? According to canon, 'Mechs are controlled by throttles, joysticks, and pedals, not by a mouse and keyboard. A Mechwarrior does not simply point at a target with a mouse and have their weapons automatically hit the target.

well I think you miss the point, or choose to be be so stuck in "your" argument, you cannot see the point being made, but then again, maybe I did not explain myself well enough. No, I just re-read my post, you are just rong(so rong it can't be spelled right).
I said I was setting up a joystick, that i played with mouse and keyboard, and if you want to talk canon like it is a religion, which is fine by me, then you know that the pilot's reticule moved before him/her and was not in a "fixed" position. You seemed very condescending, and what I said is more like the books in the physical attributes of firing instead of arcade game (as fixed firing reticule is), which is in reality easier.

I am learning to play with a joystick, I still want a floating reticule. Why? Because I am a "thinker," and am not a naturally gifted player, I am as my name states, a "plodder."
Most all here will be better than me in this game with their natural ability, or excessive experience from mega hours playing. I will patiently ply my craft, free reticules have physical based strategies, strategies I use,and if you have the lock/unlock freelook in a convenient place with the joystick, the realism is awesome. Of course the floating reticule needs to have physical jumps and jitters like the fixed reticule does.

please don't spout off as if I don't know what I am talking about, and I am learning joystick play for immersion qualities myself, believing to have a fixed reticule goes against all battletech books with any mech I would use.

Edited by plodder, 03 February 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[plodder]

Ok, in Stackpoles Warrior:EN GARDE page 25, 10th anniversary edition, it says,"Justin caressed two buttons on the targeting joystick with his fingers of his left hand, and the systems armed themselves." This is a Valkyrie

Now I tink it means the emphasis is on "the targeting joystick" vs. the cockpit controller, or steering controller, secondarily I think of the left hand was using a left (second joystick). I just happened on that while I was reading, thought it brought something.