26 replies to this topic

[Ammo]

I have a full row of old FASA Battletech books on a shelf in my library from the early-mid nineties. Are any of these books still good?

The last time I played battletech was at GenCon 2005 where a new publisher bought the rights (I assume this wasn’t Catalyst Games since they say they got the rights in 2007). At that time it had been several years since I had played and I was really excited. I took my Phoenix Hawk (my favorite mech) and took on a new player who had a Marauder. I got shredded up but managed to get its back and did some damage. I was having fun, the new player was having fun shooting me up until I got her back, then...

The guy who was running the game, who worked for the company said the new player could punch my mech even though I was standing directly behind the mech. One of the first rules of Battletech is "Never let anyone get your back" the second is "Never stop moving" which is pretty much what I said. The guy went on to tell me that you can do a physical attack to someone in a rear hex, even showing me a reverse hammer strike.

I walked away from that game with a pretty bad taste for the new company and the path they were going down.

I really liked the FASA Battletech and pretty much everything about it. So to all you older players (You’re not that
old!) is the new game still like the FASA version or is it this Kung Fu Hammerfist version?

Edited by Ammo, 12 January 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[Stahlseele]

As far as i know, they should still be mostly good.
BattleTech has never had any really big retcons or rules changes.
Minor stuff got errataed from time to time, but mostly just changes to variants, loadouts, contruction rules . .
Game-Play wise, nothing much ever got changed. The biggest change was when they had droids renamed into Battletech and went from squares to hexes . .

Also:
yes, you CAN be punched by ONE ARM that has fired NO WEAPONS that turn, if you are standing DIRECTLY BEHIND the Mech.
Because:
TORSO TWIST:
You twist your torso, like a human, to turn it to one side.
The arm on that side can then do anything into the legs back arc that the arm could normally do in the front or side arc.

For example, if you stand in the hex directly behind him, he can twist left and hit you with the left arm.
or twist right and hit you with the right arm. but only one arm.
If you tell in the hex on the left side behind him, he can twist to the left and hit you with the left arm, not with the right one i think.
if you stand on the rear right hex, he can twist to the right to hit you with the right arm, but not with the left one.
if you in't in the front, front left or front right hex, you can never be hin by more than one punch.
if you are in any of these three hexes and he has not fired a single arm mounted weapon that turn, he can punch you 2 times.
THIS is basically the SOLE REASON for there being Mechs that have a complete Weapon-Arm and an entirely humanoid Arm with not a single weapon built into it.
Because, basically, it's another attack that can, possibly, kill a mech with a head-hit. and does no heat to the own mech.
And needs no piloting check, if it fails.

But this rule is, as far as i know, as old as the torso twist rule itself . .
dunno where you have been, but in my entire time of playing(about 20 years), it's always been like this o.O

Edited by stahlseele, 12 January 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[The1WithTheGun]

Still fundamentally the same, though there have been some rules tweaks here and there.

Now Aerotech - that has undergone some changes over the years.

[Stahlseele]

We don't talk about aerotech . .
Aerotech is . . somewhere over there (gamers ref)

[Hartsblade]

Hey Ammo let me know if you are looking to get rid of those old books

[Lu Tze]

I have to disagree with punches being able to hit a target in the rear arc.

Page 145 of the Total Warfare manual reads, and I quote:

"All punch attacks must be made against targets in the attacking
’Mech’s forward or side fi ring arcs. If the target is in the right or
left arc, only the right or left arm, respectively, may punch."

The only Mech that can attack the rear arc is a Quad and only with a kick.

Side note, (same page, same rule book)

"Missing Actuators: A ’Mech does not need hands (or hand
actuators) to punch. However, ’Mechs not equipped with a
hand on the punching arm must add the +1 modifier as for a
hand actuator critical hit. Likewise, ’Mechs that do not come
equipped with a lower arm actuator on the punching arm
must add a +2 modifier to the to-hit number (in place of the
+1 modifier for punching without a hand actuator), and the
punch inflicts only half the standard damage (round down)."

Torso twisting only equates to the firing of weapons, Not physical attacks.


If we could have been punching the rear arc, there would never have been a need for rear-arc firing weapons.

Edit: If your Mech has No Hand or Lower Arm Actuators, you CAN flip your arms around to fire into the rear arc at no penalty.

Edited by Lu Tze, 12 January 2012 - 06:02 PM.

[Stahlseele]

Torso Twisting makes your rear arc into one side arc for all intents and purposes.
Only kicking and your hit zones are not affected by this.

[Lu Tze]

Ah, missed the paragraph wherein they dictate that a torso twist holds for even the physical attack phase...

Although I've never been one for standing Directly behind someone so I can Gauss their rear...

Hmm, after further research, it seems that this ideal has been in play since the Master Rules were out... How did I miss that?

Edited by Lu Tze, 12 January 2012 - 06:28 PM.

[Hayden]

I was looking at the manual from my old second edition box set, I was shocked to see that they only had one type of Autocannon back then

[Rabbit Blacksun]

hmm well cant say much for punching but i know old BT books the maruaders PPC arms where designed around the fact that you could bludgeon an opponent with them hence the added armor to them ... so just saying

[Sturmbb]

nothing to see here , these are not the rules you are looking for...

[Mason Grimm]

Hayden, on 12 January 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

I was looking at the manual from my old second edition box set, I was shocked to see that they only had one type of Autocannon back then

Ahhhhhhhhh, back in the day eh?!?!?! I've got that box set too!

[terekhov]

I actually managed to pick up 4 of the source books from my local library that someone had donated to a book sale. Got them for $1 apiece. Really need to find someone in my area to play with.

[Karyudo ds]

Hayden, on 12 January 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

I was looking at the manual from my old second edition box set, I was shocked to see that they only had one type of Autocannon back then

3rd edition and Citytech 2nd. Oh such wonderful artwork.

[Hayden]

Karyudo-ds, on 13 January 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

3rd edition and Citytech 2nd. Oh such wonderful artwork.

That was the artwork that got me started! I really liked the artwork on Citytech 1, too but I never got my hands on that.

Mason Grimm, on 12 January 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

Ahhhhhhhhh, back in the day eh?!?!?! I've got that box set too!

Hell yes!

[Thorn Hallis]

Mason Grimm, on 12 January 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

Ahhhhhhhhh, back in the day eh?!?!?! I've got that box set too!

You are old! Both of you!.

[Stahlseele]

Standing directly behind or in front of an opponent is only a valid tactic, if your weapons don't have minimum reach or you can deliver more damage via physical than via shooting. See charger here,or one of the banshees. Or the Berserker.
And usually, PUNCHING is worthless anyway. Kicking is much easier and ALWAYS has the chance to topple an enemy mech AND does more Damage than punching. The only bad thing about kicking is, that you, yourself, may fall, if you miss.
While the only good thing about PUNCHING is that you may hit the head to force a pilot wounded roll to knock him out. or if your punch does more than 11 points of damage take the head clean off.

[TheRulesLawyer]

There have been some changes over the years. How crits are handled has changed a couple times now IIRC. Its still the same basic game from old fasa books to current, but don't expect to go into a tournament without some surprises.

[Stahlseele]

90% of the changes have been pure power-creep from new toys though.
BT is really one of the most backwards compatible games i know of.

[Ammo]

Thanks for all the responces!

In ten years for heavy play I had never seen the torso twist rule used like that. Then again I think people would normally fire the weapons on the arm or go alpha-strike on anouther target that all thier weapons were on.

When that guy said that then did the demonstration I had this terrible vision of anime mecha style jumping and flipping combat, not the lumbering weapons platform game Battletech gives me.

So the rules are the same, but I know weapons have changed. I am still in the FASA 3050 version (the Battletech Compendium).

Where do I find the new rules for the new weapons?

Did the 3039 technical manual replace 3025 or is this like a stand alone book?

Is my old 3050 still good?

I am a bit overwelmed here. I looked at the new maker for the mechs and they have a terrible layout on thier website. It would be so much easier if they would have sectioned the mechs out by era.