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Project for Fun: Translating TT rules into Realtime counter parts.


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#1 Mautty the Bobcat

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:59 AM

Note: This is a project meant solely for fun and curiosity, if you want to make a debate or discussion about applying anything in this topic DO IT ELSEWHERE. There will he NO tolerance for non-topic related discussions.

Rules
1. These rules are subject to amendment or addition at any time - Please keep up to date with them.
2. Do NOT start debates/discussions about applying these conversions to MW:O.
3. Only discussion about the conversions from turn based to real time and the topic itself are allowed.
4. Conversions must be agreed upon by multiple people to be considered for addition to the list.
5. Any conversion added to the list may be disputed and a new conversion may replace it if agreed upon.
-If anyone has suggestions for rules that may help with the thread, PM me about them.

Okay so, there's a lot of discussion about BT rules and implementing them feasibly into MW:O as a guideline for how the mechanics should work to stay true to the BT TT. But...these rules are meant for a turn based game, and while many people can say "Well it should be this way cause this rule says..." there is no definitive real time equivalent. I've been extremely curious as to what TT rules' real time equivalents would actually be, so I'm hoping to get a number of people working on making a list of these converted rules for both reference and just because we can.

My personal experience with the TT is very limited and my information comes strictly from Sarna. I will unfortunately be less helpful than many who may participate in this topic, but I'll try to keep it organized and up to date as much as I can. :D

The list will be relegated to the second post to keep this organized. Suggestions for conversions if you can't think of any are listed below to help start this topic off.

Conversion Ideas
-Movement
-Weapons Damage
-Mech customization (?)

Edited by Mautty the Bobcat, 27 February 2012 - 05:06 AM.


#2 Mautty the Bobcat

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:00 AM

Conversions will be added as they are agreed upon by the participants of the topic.

List of Accepted Real Time Conversions

#3 Karl Streiger

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:55 AM

Movement
The speed of a battlemech is only the average of 10sec movement - it doesn't make sense that a 100t mech moving 50kph has more problems to hit something then a 25t mech moving 50kph
What does average mean? The Commando moves with full speed 100m and make a full stop firing its SRMs afer accurate aiming. Then moving on with full speed. The average speed is 50kph. To travel the same distance the atlas can't stop for precise shooting. You are shooting while moving.

Damage
As considered in other topics the average damage of a TT round is the damage that could be inflicted within 10sec. However i wan't to see the much smaller duell rules - nice to have different rof of weapons...ppc had a rof of 3, while AC 5 or AC2 where able to fire every round (4 times in a normal TT round)

Heat
Same as with Duell rule - you have heat spikes - the large laser has a heat production of 32 - event the cooles mech get troubles firing a single on.

#4 Arnold Carns

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:27 AM

In June 2002 I was a member of a project group formed from members of our MW3/MW4 clan to program ourselves an own BattleTech Multiplayer Simulation due to our dissatisfaction with MW4 and the vanish of MPBT 3025.
The Engine we choosed was "Blitz3D", the internal project name was "MechSim 3025".
Due to some animosities aroused and harsh words spoken when our lead programmer get an additional artist into the boat which has been disliked personally by some of the teams other members, the project group unfortunately fell apart and the project was abandoned in November 2003.

The following is an exerpt ot the rules translations our team has developed:
TT turnlength: 10 seconds
TT hexsize: 30m

1. Movement
The most easiest way to translate TT movement into a realtime simulation is based on the terrain size scale. In our project, one "mapunit" was equal 1m². Test maps were at a maximum of 5km x 5km, while the targeted standard mapsize was 20 km x 20 km.

To find out the maximum speed for a certain unit (mech, vehicle, etc), multiply it's given running speed from the TRO's in hex with 3. The sum was the amount of mapunits it had to be able to travel in 1 second at full speed (at a fixed framerate of 30 frames per second (fps) for the animation cycle). The units animations had then to be finetuned to avoid sliding/skidding (the most time- and patience-consuming part).

2. Weapon Damage
Although we started with the given weapon damage/heat/range from the basic TT and a cooldown/recharge rate of 10 seconds for each weapon, we choosed to switch to the more satisfying 'Mech Duel Rules weapon stats from the "Solaris VII" boardgame (FASA 1660 - "Solaris VII - Gamemasters Book" ,Page 51).
Thoose "quarter-scale system" named rules set were a direct derivate from the basic 10 second/30m scale to a 2,5 second/7,5m scale (1/4th) and a heatscale from 0 to 120 instead of 0 to 30 (for thoose who aren't familiar with the "Solaris VII" rules).

Within theese rules it would be theorethically possible to fire a weapon more than once in a 10 second "game round", but the increased heat produced (4 times larger than the values from the TT) would almost result in a instant shutdown trying this. Watching your Heatscale and knowing your numbers was a must if you don't wanted to be a overheated sitting duck.

Standard heatsinks were able to dissipate 1 heatpoint in 2,5 seconds (at a rate of 0.004 heatpoints per 1/100th of a second).

To avoid instant pinpoint accuracy and "insta-coring", all weapons were slewed to a converging process of about 3 seconds. Firing a weapon before converging was reached resulted in a hit somewhere inside the aiming reticule instead of the "point" in it's middle. This was made visibly by some "dots" travelling from the outer ring of the reticule to it's center.

Each missile was a single instance with it's own tracking ability and turn rate. It was also planned to make an AC shot a single "slug" (which means an AC/5 has 5, an AC/10 has 10 slugs and so on). That way it would possibly "spread" an AC salvo instead of hitting all the same section.

3. Mech Customization
At the time the project was abandoned it wasn't planned to include a "MechLab". The only way to customize your mech was arranging certain weapons to certain TICs (Targeting Interlock Circuits). But with all Mechs from the TRO 3025 and thoose from the "Battlepack: Fouth Succession War" with all their variants you'd have a bunch to choose from. I guess made from hardcore BT-Fans it would be unneccesary to mention that "MechWar 3025" included all "Unseens" including the Quads (which were very fun to steer! Ah, I loved that "Scorpion"! Nearly as much as my "Rifleman" :D)

Edited by Arnold Carns, 27 February 2012 - 08:41 AM.


#5 Ian MacLeary

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:14 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 27 February 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Movement
The speed of a battlemech is only the average of 10sec movement - it doesn't make sense that a 100t mech moving 50kph has more problems to hit something then a 25t mech moving 50kph
What does average mean? The Commando moves with full speed 100m and make a full stop firing its SRMs afer accurate aiming. Then moving on with full speed. The average speed is 50kph. To travel the same distance the atlas can't stop for precise shooting. You are shooting while moving.


While it's true that the speeds in the TT are only an average, there's another factor weighing in to targeting modifiers: pilot concentration. The BattleMech does a great deal of the work of moving itself, but the pilot needs to keep it on its feet through the neurohelmet. Running takes more focus than walking, which is why an Atlas moving at 50 kph takes a larger personal modifier to attacks than a Commando moving the same speed. In a real-time game, this would probably be translated into reticle uncertainty - jitter or expansion of the hit-box.





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