52 replies to this topic

[Stone Profit]

In case you don't know how Gauss Rifles work:

Introduced in 2590 by the Terran Hegemony^[4], the Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities^[5], making it a devastating and lethal long-range weapon. Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.
Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.

So, should they blow up or not?

[Nerts]

Maybe when the weapon gets destroyed, but it shouldn't be a separate risk from weapon loss.

[Snowcaller]

I think they should, but maybe not as catastrophically as they did when TR:3050 came out.
Case didn't even help.
We had to lower the damage after we adjusted our use of the rules so that location roll of two resulted in an armour penetrated (critical), re roll for location from the original Centre Torso Critical.

We didn't see why only the CT should be prone to critical hits.
We had a few catastrophes before we thought to lower the damage

Given the amount i lost weapons in Mercs, i think it would be prudent for it to be a risk of explosion, rather than a guarantee.

[Sug]

I know caps can explode if they're overloaded or shorted out, but can they even explode from an impact?

I agree with Snowcaller on making it a risk rather than a guarantee of an explosion.

What happens if I fired my gauss rifle, and then it takes a critical hit? Didn't I just discharge my capacitors? Maybe make the risk of explosion based on where the rifle is in it's recharge cycle.

[Shalmyan Moonsong]

If you know anything about the Classic Tabletop Battletech, this is pretty much a simple rule. If the Gauss rilfe takes a crit... it goes BOOM, why is that we might ask....

well frist it the advantages....

One shot generates... one point of heat, and does fifteen damage, and has the same range as a LRM, and if it's ammo does take a critical hit, the ammo does not explode.

Now if the weapon did not have the disadvantage that it does have, which is that it weighes 15 tons, good size for a weapon and take up 7 crit slots, the only disadvantage is the weapons blows up if one of those 7 crit slots is it, and it only does 20 damage, which is nothing compared to the 200 damage 1 ton of LRM does to you on a ammo explosion.

So if the gauss rifle did not have the disadvantage listed above... every single mech in the game would have them, why would anyone use anything else? Every weapon has to have something about that makes it good and bad, the gauss rifle is a great weapon, virtually no heat, and ammo does not explode. sadly the balance is, that the weapon it self does. Sorry, you can not have no heat, no ammo explosion, and LRM range, without a catch. The Gauss rifle has advantages, and some great ones at that, it also has a disadvantage that makes using it a risk, that is called balance. Roll the dice, I hope it pays off.

[Kurn Hurin]

I do think there should be a chance of an explosion if the weapon is destroyed, although i dont have any thoughts on the odds of it happening. In regards to the high damage recieved if the gauss rifle blows, i think the GR is a powerful enough weapon that it justifies the high potential damage if destroyed

[Nik Van Rhijn]

It doesn't do much damage (20) and this should be avoided (if modelled correctly) with CASE. It's not much of a disadvantage when compared to it's benefits.

[DEVASTATOR]

I'd perfer it to simply be a visual effect. When you destroy the weapon the effect can be anything you want including having the caps explode. But, if you're talking about this being something like an ammo explosion (due to overheating or something else but not related to the weapons being damaged) then no thanks. Destroy the weapon and see some nice sparks - sure. Have the weapons blow up due to something other than a direct hit - no thanks.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Of course it needs to explode. Guass rifles without the explosions are simply too good.

[Cyote13]

like Sug said...the glory of this game will be that it is real time, the damage generated from a Guass rifle capacitor explosion should be based on how full a charge it has...but yes should have the chance of blowing when damaged.

[Morashtak]

Remembering back in High School and our basis electronics class - etch your own circuit board, solder in the resistors, capacitors, etc. Being it was during the late 70's the class was pretty much "Strobe Light 101".

The old strobe light used a capacitor slightly smaller than the average fist. When wired correctly the light blinked just fine. When wired in backwards - POP! well... more like a muffled bang/pop sound. Scared the crud out of you if you weren't looking.

Take this to the size/numbers needed for a military grade guass rifle and there should be drawbacks for using it. Not nitroglycerin, but not a big slab of lead you're carrying.

[SquareSphere]

for the love of everything YES. Weapons needs some sort of draw back or else it's all everyone boats.

[Dayuhan]

Yes, a Gauss Rifle should explode if it suffers a critical hit, but the ammunition should not explode. However, I would expect that after the first critical hit and subsequent damage is incured any further critical hits to the Gauss Rifle would have no affect - as the power to the coils is completely disrupted by the first critical hit.

[Snowcaller]

I fear i may have been interpreting the rules incorrectly...

I may have been mistaken, but i was under the impression that a gauss rifle explodes with the force of a full ammo pack exploding, not a single round of firing. The transfer was from ammunition to weapon, and as of the rules in TR:3050, which may have been subsequently amended in later TR's and rules addenda, CASE was unable to prevent the damage transfer.

We used to think a Gauss Rifle going BOOM! inflicted 300 points of damage.
Yes, insta-mech-death...Left arm goes up, damage to LT internal..CT internal...BOOM!

This is why we lowered the damage to 30, enough to take an arm off and do some damage to the nearby torso.
Seemed reasonable enough to us.

Maybe for video game mechanics a simple 'if you lose the gun, you lose the arm' will suffice?
It seems like a fairly innocuous risk, but with the potential presence of newer weaponry from MW4 and Mercs, the gauss rifle doesn't quite seem the revelation that it used to.

Dayuhan is correct tho, it's the gun that should go up, not the ammo, which is merely a ferrous slug.
NOW...if MWO includes Silver Bullet ammunition...THAT's another story.

[Erich Rainmaker Manstein]

Maybe not some much an explosion as a massive eletrical discharge which cn fry your systems . . . ?

[Vexgrave Lars]

A simple no nonsense "Yes" the outcome of which, should be a spectacular electrical fire and fusion induced fireball from the location of the weapon.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

absolutely these bad boys should explode. Gauss ammo that is crit'ed should not explode however the hit destroys the ammo
in any case (or the feed mechanism, take your pick of explanation)

[VYCanis]

yeah they should. but i like the idea of the damage being relative to how far along it is into its recycle time.

Where a recently fired gauss goes out with a fizzle but a ready to fire gauss goes out like one of those electric transformer boxes when they short out, messing up the other stuff in the location.

and if there is ammo dumping, for the gauss it could be translated instead as being able to power the weapon down and bleed off the charge safely until you want to warm it up again. and/or have it auto power down when its out of ammo, to avoid catastrophic capacitor failure.

[Fyrwulf]

Given the sort of damage these things inflict, I rather imagine the capacitors probably store energy equivalent to the energy stored in a similar weight of C-4. If one of these things gets critted, BOOM goes the dynamite.

[Snowcaller]

Well, if the game includes this risk to it's full potential relative to the TTB, then gauss rifles are too much a liability to mount.
There should be a big, debilitating bang, but insta-mech-death or something just short over compensates for the weapon's abilities.
After all, in Mercs, GR's cycled SLOWWWWWWWWwwwwww...

It's not like the TTB where you could fire each weapon in a round, or as if we are bound to that to balance the weapon.
Too big a boom would likely exclude the weapon as too big a risk but there are other penalties that can be applied now in lieu of catastrophe.

Well, if the weapon gets too much a liability, well, i'll just take an AC/10 and to heck with the GR.
I am totally down with the damage being relative to the stored charge in the capacitors...but also, i don't think that GR's are THAT good that they deserve to carry such a risk attached that either the whole mech is crippled or worse just because it was hit and went 'poof'.

We have so many more options playing MW/BT/CT as a 'sim' than we ever did as a TTB or RPG.

Your thoughts, ladies and gents?

(forgive my verbosity, I still agree that something going bang should result from a GR being hit)

Edited by Snowcaller, 21 January 2012 - 11:31 AM.