43 replies to this topic

[Grayson Pryde]

The main problem is you cant get a Bloodname when you are a bondsman from teh inner sphere.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

Sea Fox is also one of the ones that designed the mechs that most of the clans use, so It would sorta have to be involved if nothing else then a playable faction, besides, they are traders and keep pretty far beneath the radar, they also are the ones who arbitrate between the clan disputes so they are "neutral" in most things ... Cept the bloody snow ravens ... theiving magpies! ...

ahem ..

anyway lol ... I think sea fox should be playable, since they are the ones that arent going ot out right destroy their opponet ...

[Listless Nomad]

Grayson Pryde, on 19 January 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

The main problem is you cant get a Bloodname when you are a bondsman from teh inner sphere.

Phelan Kell/Ward would beg to differ - but he was definitely more of an exception than a rule. It's something that would need to be addressed. They'd probably have to go non canon there.

[KJ Crow]

Personally I am hoping that Dev's embrace the concept of the 'Reboot' in that the only BattleTech History that is Canon is that which has gone before... just imagine if the unthinkable happens and the combined forces loyal to the IS stop them at the Periphery worlds.... in fact, I think any player that wants a challenge should focus on this instead of trying to jump ship at the earliest opportunity!..... and given the way the Clanners have already changed the theme of this thread from 'A Possible method of joing the clans' to 'I want Clan Vodka Jellyfish to be available to play' I seriously believe that this goldfish like attention span could actually help us in the coming battles.

[Listless Nomad]

KJ Crow, on 19 January 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Personally I am hoping that Dev's embrace the concept of the 'Reboot' in that the only BattleTech History that is Canon is that which has gone before... just imagine if the unthinkable happens and the combined forces loyal to the IS stop them at the Periphery worlds.... in fact, I think any player that wants a challenge should focus on this instead of trying to jump ship at the earliest opportunity!..... and given the way the Clanners have already changed the theme of this thread from 'A Possible method of joing the clans' to 'I want Clan Vodka Jellyfish to be available to play' I seriously believe that this goldfish like attention span could actually help us in the coming battles.

No I had thought of this a while back - and depending on how people are allowed into the clans - we could have an advantage we otherwise wouldn't. A lot of the members on here are long time BT fans, and are fond of the IS and old IS mechs. In addtion, there are a lot of merc companies and units forming, which would provide a lot of draw to remain affiliated with the IS. If enrollment in the clans is completely open - the vast majority of people joining are going to be the lone wolf console kiddies who want the shiniest guns. People who are fans of the canon, and who use unit tactics might have a better chance than the characters did from the story. Who knows but it's something to take away from it. My purpose in this thread was primarily to try to devise a way to allow IS warriors to go to the clans without making the IS a ghost town.

As to your other point - I'm not sure about the reboot stuff. It all depends on their mindset. Where they placed this game occurs in the middle of a storied universe, with a lot of story telling on either side. I think they'd be wary of going the new star trek route and blowing up vulcan. Probably going to **** off a TON of people. That being said - if they do have the stones to go that route, it would make access to a lot of tech and mechs easier because they are off canon. However, judging by the comments of long time BT fans just about what microsoft did to Mechwarrior, i think they'd lose a lot of support if they did that. We'll have to wait and see though...

[Rabbit Blacksun]

Actually KJ Sea Fox was and is the only clan that actually sells Clan Tech to the IS including designing Clan Spec mechs designed specifically for the IS. So its not so much a I want so an so clan as playable as a responce to anothers post.

and honestly ... even with a combined might IS is not going to do so great against the clans, the mechs and weapons just how too diffierent of a level. So you would think that the one clan that is helping the IS would actually be welcomed, not to mention that according to lore the Wolf's Dragoons are clan based, and yet they fight for the IS.

Now... IF you had said that the clans have their own infighting going on, that will cause them issues and perhaps give the IS a chance that would have been rather intelligent, you will come to learn that most clanners while infighting and argueing are second nature will all come to focus on things that are an insult to them.

The IS made that mistake over and over again by using a lance against a single clan mech, (which tactically is the only option available) while to the clans this is highly dis honorable it opened up the clans to roll in with their complete force and stomp the IS for a very long time. So no their "goldfish like attention span" wont help you in the least.

what might help you is brushing up on tactics to fight against the clans in a manner that might actually let you succeed. In other words learn the clan mechs strengths and weaknesses, learn where there weapons are placed, what the heat levels they can handle is, Use that to your advantage, and fight dirty smart if you really want a reset, learn about your opponent and do your best to nullify their tactical advantage.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

eh, I'd say let everyone have the clans. If the devs are making the archetypical F2p formula, then the league play is going to be a separate world than the lone wolves. Case in point: World of Tanks.

I've spent time as both a lone wolf and clan player and I'll tell you playerclan only fights playerclan in formal battles likewise only playerclan groups can affect the worldmap and get high end pay out for such.

what does this mean?
it means let players have both - IS pilot and Clan pilot; If I can go up the Russian tech tree AND German tech tree at the same time,
why can't I go up the IS tech tree AND the Clan tech tree?
it works wonders if the devs make a hook:
sure you can play clan, but to have any impact on the metagame, you gotta join up with a player-run group like everyone else.
This would indeed weed out the munchkins, don't even consider them

[KJ Crow]

At launch the game is going to let us go 'off canon'..... players are going to be battling along the Faction borders to alter the boundaries of those factions... the Border Worlds will be owned by player corps, essentially at least until the major invasion corridors are pushed through next year, it will be the player base creating the majority of the political map... The Devs have the canon to work from to provide the storyline element of the game, but they may in rare cases be forced to change some of this.

Also, sticking to canon, 'Sea Fox' is forced to move into the IS in 3067 and continued their nomadic trader existance there... at time of launch, Sea Fox are still actually Clan Diamond Shark and don't change their name back to Sea Fox until 3100... So yes, as an update in the future that spreads out into the clan worlds, they would be a nice viable playable faction, especially if a trading mechanic has been introduced. If we stick to canon however, the number of clans will be limited to begin with.

And on the subject of 'My improbable dream' of the unthinkable occuring and us halting the advance - it is really all hot air at the moment...we don't know the mechanics, the mechs or the available options... and even when those are known, all it will take is a run of battles where the IS has better teams. Yeah, I guess I better reign in my sarcasm mode before it gets me in too much trouble!

[Listless Nomad]

KJ Crow, on 19 January 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

At launch the game is going to let us go 'off canon'..... players are going to be battling along the Faction borders to alter the boundaries of those factions... the Border Worlds will be owned by player corps, essentially at least until the major invasion corridors are pushed through next year, it will be the player base creating the majority of the political map...

I'm not convinced of this fact yet - maybe I haven't read enough yet, and perhaps you could clarify - but to my knowledge as of right now we still don't know exactly we'll be allowed to attack planets - how the planets will be chosen - and how the battles on those planets will effect the map.

[Adrian Pryde]

We have to remember that this is a game first and foremost, and that the emphasis should and most certainly is on making something fun for all of us to play. Doing something like limiting a players ability to join a faction they want to be part of is something which would cost the game players. Balancing the clans is not going to be about joining, it is going to be about how the combat works. There was an interview somewhat recently where the developers mentioned how the clan players will be heavily encouraged to abide by Zellbrigen, most likely in the form of character advancement, and that matches between Inner Sphere and Clan players will place numbers on the side of the IS.

And the MAJOR other fact you have to remember is that the game is going to have months to build a player base specifically devoted to the Inner Sphere. That fact alone is going to ensure that not everyone is going to run off to the clans. People will not want to leave their current ranks, loyalty benefits, player groups, etc.

Now if there is going to be some form of limitation on players joining a clan, it is not going to be through a trial, or bondsmanship, it is most likely going to be through your account. Like it was stated here before, you will probably have to create a new clan character. And it is possible that they may structure it similar to earning the Drow race in Dungeons and Dragons online. In order to make a Drow character you had to have a certain number of total faction points, or you had to have a premium account.

So, basically: Everyone can be a clanner, or it is tied into the Free to Play/Pay to Play divide through earned rewards/payed benefits.

[Listless Nomad]

I wasn't aware that the IS clan matchs would be specifically weighted towards the IS - that is good news. I also suspect you are correct about how the clans are going to be regulated - though I'd like to hope the suggestions here would make it a little more fun to be a clanner - knowing you've passed some trials to get there. What I disagree with is your belief that the months leading up to the clan invasion will increase loyalty to the IS. I've already seen numerous people declare for the clans already - or make it known they intend to defect as soon as the clans arrive. With the best tech and the best mechs, it would be foolish to think the majority of people will want to voluntarily remain in the IS if given the choice to leave, without some kind of major incentive.

[KJ Crow]

Listless, just dug this snippet out of the Dev Blog on community Warfare:

Faction Worlds

The battle for control over faction planets is a simple war of attrition. The faction with the most influence over a particular planet occupies it. By virtue of simply competing in online matches, faction players contribute influence points to target planets.

Border Worlds
Mercenary Corporations can bid and fight for occupation rights of border worlds throughout the Inner Sphere. Merc Corps must bid on a planet’s occupation rights via a system of contracts generated by the game.
A match or series of matches are set up between the defending Merc Corp and the challenger. The victor is determined from the results of each match, and takes control of the planet. They are rewarded with an immediate contract payout, and will continue to earn rewards while they occupy the planet.

Ok, it is still rather vague, but it gives hope that payers will have some influence over the territory map

I also think we should be kicking ourselves for not actually thinking about the 'Pay to be a Clanner' option beforehand

[Valery Vixen]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 19 January 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Cept the bloody snow ravens ... theiving magpies! ...

ahem ..

And what exactaly did we steal? as I recall we gave something to the oceans, not take something out... ^.^

Fun asside though,
I think the way 'star trek online' handled multiple factions would work in this case.
Give the player an IS character, they must level it to 23%-33% of the cap before unlocking the Clan option.
Once you unlock the Clans, you can then create a second character who starts at 0 and is a clan sibko.

This should help aleviate players who want to jump to the shinies.
You have a character you have invested time into, do you want to drop it for a new toy?
You will lose all your progress and start from scratch, and you will go against opponents who are already a number of 'levels' above you.

I know I want to go to the clans, but it's cause I'm a clanner.
I'd still play my IS character if this happened, it just would be played for fun.


At least that's my 2 C-Bills.

[Choronzon]

Listless Nomad, on 19 January 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

What I disagree with is your belief that the months leading up to the clan invasion will increase loyalty to the IS. I've already seen numerous people declare for the clans already - or make it known they intend to defect as soon as the clans arrive. With the best tech and the best mechs, it would be foolish to think the majority of people will want to voluntarily remain in the IS if given the choice to leave, without some kind of major incentive.

I think those of us who are already committed to the Clans are committed because we are long time followers, supporters and fans. When the game launches, there will be a massive influx of players who know absolutely nothing of the Battletech universe. Most will probably be completely unaware - at least initially - of the existence of the Clans at all. I believe that, with these individuals specifically, the progress that they have made leading up to the Clan invasion could be quite significant in terms of influencing their allegiances. If the ladder and rewards system is significant enough, or if the penalty for joining the Clans severe enough, I think that numbers should be manageable.

I would also like to state that I will be joining the Clans at the earliest moment possible, regardless of the requirements for me to do so. I also do not believe that entry to the Clans should be limited, however I do hope that a solution to this issue can be found and that when the time comes, the Clan/Inner Sphere population levels are fair realistically balanced, but not in an unrealistic, infeasible or poor sporting manner.

[Listless Nomad]

KJ Crow, on 19 January 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Ok, it is still rather vague, but it gives hope that payers will have some influence over the territory map

I also think we should be kicking ourselves for not actually thinking about the 'Pay to be a Clanner' option beforehand

Thanks for finding that KJ Crow - vague but it helps a little. I do need to clarify what I meant a little though. I had always hoped that the players would be able to affect the game map based on the results of our battles. The game would be a little silly otherwise. More what I meant was - how the battles and planets we were fighting on would be chosen? Will it have a somewhat story driven campaign where the devs pick planets to attack and based on the results choose new planets to attack? Will it be entirely player driven with multiple planets being attacked at random? Thats more what I meant when I speculated about player influence on the game map.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

its called EVE... player controlled space (planets) that are constantly fluctuating as battels and corporations take over new systems and what not.

But anyway, I am sticking with the IS I may indeed love the clans or atleast one clan in them but hell to be honest...I just like the way the IS mechs look (MOSTLY) there are few that they introduced after the clans showed up that made me want to shoot myself ... but eh it happens.

Now you give me clan tech to mount on my IS mech ... and ill show you some one who can go toe to toe with a clan mech and come out on top ... Atleast in theory...

[Listless Nomad]

If this game could get anywhere close to EVE I would be ecstatic - I'm just trying to keep my mind open and hope that whatever system they have for planetary conquest is viable. The only major hiccup would be that planets are fought for in space with EVE (if im correct) and these planets would be fought for on the ground, which would require a decent stable of maps to fight on. More maps means less planets which means smaller universe which leaves it too close to having one nation just own everyone and the universe is broken. Still - EVE would be the goal for a player run game to be successful.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

well yeah thats true, but with dust 514 thats supposed to make ground combat for the planets viable ... course we dont know if thats ever gunna happen lol

Still though there are really a limited number of terrain types that we as humans could viably live on, and even fewer that we could viable use for such combat, now if they make aero space and all that as a playable thing then yes you would be talking a massive amount of maps that would be needed. Since your talking air, space, and all that, but with mechs you need ground, and terrain, hell you dont even necesarily need tree's. your gunna need cities but even that can be reused for most maps, lets face it, its a grid pattern with buildings

[Listless Nomad]

Yeah I hear ya - and cities would probably be the easiest to duplicate. It would just be a little disappointing if you had to play the same rolling green fields/forest map on 12 different worlds. Would take away from the immersion of being on an interplanetary campaign....Can't complain too much though as I'm not making the maps. Maybe if they let the community help out with some creations that could add to the pool...

[Rabbit Blacksun]

I imagine at some point they would open up the custom map option since it would save them work and from a money making POV that would srsly help them out, considering you could have your player base making the maps instead of your Dev team which could then focus on mechs and game updates and the like. But either way im not going to complain cause either way i still get to get in a mech again and have fun

Sides if you ever played crescent hawk and crescent hawks revenge you know exactly how bad the graffx can be lol