18 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

Hi, i have played AoC a few years and liked it for what it was while aware of what it was missing.
I dont know how many of you may have played it to but here is a Blog about some reasons that lead to the so called fail of AoC:

http://thegameguru.m...-of-conan-fail/

"2. The Marketing Problem – Elitism
Age of Conan attracted a different kind of gamer. It promised some of the hardest and most skill based game play presented in any MMO. And it was, insanely challenging that is. Two people could infinitely dodge and block each other’s attacks and heal up to full if they were both good enough.
Basically in any good game that comes out there the casual base should be able to complete about 90% of the game. Think of a game like Prince of Persia (Xbox) where you are start off going through these very easy puzzles with simplistic instructions and easy combat. As you excel through the game the content slowly gets harder to the point where the puzzles are so painstakingly complicated and combat is so insanely hard that you almost feel like throwing the game away. Compare to Ninja Gaiden Black (Xbox) released the same year. The game starts off immediately with insanely hard combat system that requires perfection or you have to start over. Most gamers do not pass the first level of this game. Prince of Persia’s popularity blossomed and saw 4-5 sequels while Ninja Gaiden Black died in it’s tracks."

I think he is right with the point of AoC having a problem with "Elitism" driving players new to the genre/game right away the moment they want starting to play it.

Have you witnessed the same with a game you (would have) loved to play?

[KJ Crow]

Would have to say yes on pretty much every MMO I have played, although on most of them it was not the Devs attitude as they describe in the article, but that of the community playing it. For me AoC was dumbed down from all that made it enjoyable combat wise and the whole thing just became a grind once I hit 80. Same with all of the others really... If they actually manage to live up to the sales pitch they are usually screwed over by around the 4th major content update.

[SquareSphere]

I actually bought AoC with such high hopes for the territory combat, but yeah it wasn't a friendly game. The whole crux is designing a system that "easy to learn, hard to master". With MMO's and mulitplayer games in general it's hard to do that past launch since you'll always have some folks that have level, equipment, experiance that's greater than the new player which creates that same "insanely hard from the get go" environment.

[Ghost]

I played a Necromancer at launch... Sometimes I miss that game, but I only remember Tortage (starting area).

[Kenyon Burguess]

i played AOC for a while. elitism never crossed my mind as to why i wanted to quit.

1. polish (that first month was hellish)
2. pvp wasnt balanced or even completely put in place before i left after 2 months
3. failed to create an immersion level deep enough to keep players in the conan universe. quests were stolen bits and pieces of conan books and short stories but combined they didnt do anything to draw you into the world further

[Tyzh]

The issue you described with AoC sounds more like poorly designed mechanics that lead to stagnant actionless gameplay, not elitism. I never played it, though.

[Catamount]

AoC had a lot of different problems early on.

One of the big problems was honestly just having too big a grind for little carrot. Dangling a carrot in front of users is one of the primary ways to keep people playing, and never wanting to log off, having them always be just within reach of that next piece of gear, or skill, or mount, or whatever.


Take resource gathering for instance. I remember mining and chopping for wood were both nightmares, because before you could move onto a new material to gather, you had to gather your existing material for hours on end to get a super-rare version of whatever you were ready to graduate from. Sometimes it just came naturally, but sometimes it didn't, and yes, I did once literally grind for nearly six hours grinding piles of mundane rock A in hopes of hitting the random chance to get [Slightly Cooler Mundane Rock A]



It was like this a lot. There was often much grind for little reward, and the game just wasn't fun as a result.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

can we post this in the clan forum? please!?

I totally agree, I hope the devs make MW:O fully accessible to anyone who wants to play; then have a good league system that says "you have a taste, now try the full meal!"

[MitchellTyner]

I wouldn't say games that are too hard fall out... just as EvE has a massive one and I've never played a game that had a learning curve so large or steep. 2 years in and I'm still learning as much a day as I did when I started.

and also Dark Souls for the ps3 was soooo hard and i've never finished it but I still love playing it and it's got a big following and a sequil now too.

[Tungz Conners]

ive played AOC since august 08. the original combat system was hard for new players and probably a big reason for them leaving. the biggest mistake funcom did was releasing an unfinished game. so many bugs in the beginning...it gave the game a bad name which fc never recovered from.
i still play and still enjoy it though.

[Catamount]

MitchellTyner, on 19 January 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

I wouldn't say games that are too hard fall out... just as EvE has a massive one and I've never played a game that had a learning curve so large or steep.

I don't know, EVE is close.

I know more than a few people who were driven away by this

[Obsidian]

Darkfall had this, among other problems that destroyed itself.

[Miles Tails Prower]

Ninja Gaiden would not be as epic as it was if it "took it easy" on people from the get go. In fact it does take it easy on you compared to the rest of the game.

There should be games made for casual people, and there should be games made for hardcore people, and there should be games that try to accomodate both. But there should never be a rule where all games have to suit a particular audience. Hard core players should have games where they don't have to be limited by casuals, Itigaki ninja gaidens are an example of this.

Edited by Miles Tails Prower, 19 January 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 19 January 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

can we post this in the clan forum? please!?

I totally agree, I hope the devs make MW:O fully accessible to anyone who wants to play; then have a good league system that says "you have a taste, now try the full meal!"

Feel free to do so

[MitchellTyner]

Catamount, on 19 January 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I don't know, EVE is close.

I know more than a few people who were driven away by this

That's exactly what I was thinking about when I was saying that. When I first started playing a guy in my corp showed me that after I cried butthurt over a loss of a ship over my own stupidity. So yeah it's always stuck with me... and it's the truth! But eve is better for it!

[Thorqemada]

Ghost, on 19 January 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I played a Necromancer at launch... Sometimes I miss that game, but I only remember Tortage (starting area).

After trying several classes and not having fun i was taking the Necromancer path.
That was quite cool gameplay in the early iteration as it was a clear decision to go unholy/pet or Icemagic - for sure i did go unholy.
I have never played much PvP, i did not like it, but made Raids for the longest time i ever did in a mmo.
In some situation a Necro could be a very good tool.
I did not like the "revamp" and stopped AoC after around 2 yrs of playing.
Stil the potential gameplay as well of the game itself as of the Necro is so much bigger then Funcom realized...

I believe in a mmo its possible and necessary to offer a helpfull new player experience that slowly leads to more challenging gameplay until it diversifies into paths for the different challenge needs of each part of the games playerbase!

[Kaemon]

I am pro alligator, so AoC didn't start well with me (and went downhill from there).

I will say that the it seemed the whole dev cycle for AoC reeked of 'suit panic', where people not necessarily involved in the day to day function of the game were making decisions and the developers were in a reactionary (more like a AYFKM?!?) role from the get go.

No one can possibly think a 2 month beta is good (except someone detached from the game), no one can think releasing a bug ridden, unfinished product is a good idea (unless they've grossly misunderstood their player base) and the communication between dev and community was atrocious (maybe like with a lot of trolling and what not...oh...wait).



Now, eventhough it appears they've righted the ship somewhat, it's too little, too late.

Online games are like a first date, if you stick your finger up your nose and tell her she could stand to lose 10 lbs, she's probably not going to be coming back around anytime soon.

On the subject of Eve, I played Eve for exactly over a vacation a few years back, then I realized I hadn't left my computer for 3 straight days (I think I feel asleep for about 2 hours or so sitting in my chair), and that I'd be paying money each month to be a zombie at work, so I reluctantly had to let it go.

[Catamount]

I agree with you guys on EVE; it's complexity is only intimidating for a short while (I got comfortable enough with the interface to be able to start playing the game without training wheels, after about an hour, figuring out the rest as I had reason to do new things), and after that, it really does add to the game.

Unfortunately, not knowing anyone in an MMO is a big deal-breaker for me generally, so coming in as my friends were winding their time down had me leaving the game before too long, and moving onto other things that I could actually play with my friends.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I played AOC on release. I don't really remember the combat being remarkably hard, but I do remember the game being buggy and unfinished.

Elitism really is a danger to any game though. Cater too much to your hardcore players and you lose the casuals. Casual players are were the money is. Sure they don't spend as much, but there a heck of a lot more of them.