199 replies to this topic

[Unruly Gentleman]

Cannon variants and SLIGHT modifications to the mech (swapping of minor components) to infuse a bit of individual players personality into the load out. Easiest for the devs to achieve a good balance and will keep people who have a hard on for cannon happy. If you can't find something you like within the realms of cannon variants you need to stop being so picky or go and find a game with unlimited variation somewhere else.

Just how I feel.

[Riordan Lionheart]

To me the issue is of keeping the mechs unique, I don't want the only difference between 2 50 ton mechs to be aesthetic. Also, these mechs have been built for certain missions/purposes; this isn't a build your mech from the ground up game like chromehounds or armored core. I don't want everyone basically having the same build and eventually I would hope that we get faction specific mechs

[Philipe von Rohrs]

How.bout using a program similar to Drawing Board?

It'll follow the mech building rules, show you the cost and effectiveness of your current loadout...

[Ramagar]

I don't think it will be an issue allowing the modifications within some rules and or limits. Just make sure ammo costs and the weight of extra heat sinks and heat dissapation are balanced.

[Rastan]

I'd personally like to see blank slate mechs as seen in MW3, obviously there is some constrant as to tonage, and there was limits to max speed, jump jets and armor.. but you should be given WIDE customization options.

That is how you get the most diversity and flexibility out of a single mech design.

Don't wanna see gun boats?.. people who push their mechs all to the offensive end usually lack armor, or speed, or both.
there is no such thing as a free lunch so don't cry about it.

Edited by Rastan, 29 February 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[Risky]

As long as I get a Catapult with ER PPCs.

[Kharahs]

why do people keep comparing this game to WoT's it's not the same game...only thing they have in common is they are F2P...thats it.
as for customization,if I remember right..IS Mechs were a pain to change weapon loadouts on were they not?...thats why they literaly sold seperate variants...I could be mistaken...but I thought pre-invasion IS tech was basicly built in weapons and were not modular in the slightest.

[FrozenRage1989]

I personally like the idea of customizing the heck out of my Mech but also get that in the timeline it may not be happening. Now down the road when this game has been sustained and there is hopefully still a dedicated fanbase then we can get into customizing our mechs and tinkering around. But this are merely my thoughts. Hell I may even be wrong. All I'm certain of is that I'll be ok with just several mechs when this game comes out and maybe some variants. But we will all have to wait and see with time.

Riordan Lionheart, on 07 February 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

To me the issue is of keeping the mechs unique, I don't want the only difference between 2 50 ton mechs to be aesthetic. Also, these mechs have been built for certain missions/purposes; this isn't a build your mech from the ground up game like chromehounds or armored core. I don't want everyone basically having the same build and eventually I would hope that we get faction specific mechs

That's an idea I like right there. Faction specific mechs. Basically different groups start producing their own mechs based on how they see things and what the believe they need? Am I following you on this Lionheart?

[Maris]

Someone explain to me why would they make us grind the Mech's skill tree to unlock the different Mech variants(as revealed in the earlier dev interviews) yet at the same time allow full custom Mechlab. And what would be the point of the Clan's Omnimechs, then?

I voted for either absolutely no customisation or an extremely restricted customisation except for visual aesthetics and modules/kits.
Who in the world would want to use stock variants, then? And whats the point having all the different mechs beyond the weight differences when a 50 ton mech has no difference from another 50 ton mech?

If you want to kill the game fast, go ahead and allow full custom loadout.

[Rastan]

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Someone explain to me why would they make us grind the Mech's skill tree to unlock the different Mech variants(as revealed in the earlier dev interviews) yet at the same time allow full custom Mechlab. And what would be the point of the Clan's Omnimechs, then?

I voted for either absolutely no customisation or an extremely restricted customisation except for visual aesthetics and modules/kits.
Who in the world would want to use stock variants, then? And whats the point having all the different mechs beyond the weight differences when a 50 ton mech has no difference from another 50 ton mech?

If you want to kill the game fast, go ahead and allow full custom loadout.

weapons and armor would still require weight, ergo the difference would be the 100 ton mechs would be able to carry more weapons, ammo, armor, and heatsinks

I guarentee you no matter how balanced they try to make it there will be a small handful of mech's that EVERYONE will use if you restrict customizations.. the more freedom you have in this area the more likely you'll see a greater veriety of mechs in use.

unless you just LOCK poeple into mech's and make them grind to get a different one.. which imo will be the worse possible way to go.
even worse then if you locked configurations.

[Maris]

Rastan, on 01 March 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

weapons and armor would still require weight, ergo the difference would be the 100 ton mechs would be able to carry more weapons, ammo, armor, and heatsinks I guarentee you no matter how balanced they try to make it there will be a small handful of mech's that EVERYONE will use if you restrict customizations.. the more freedom you have in this area the more likely you'll see a greater veriety of mechs in use. unless you just LOCK poeple into mech's and make them grind to get a different one.. which imo will be the worse possible way to go. even worse then if you locked configurations.

You miss my point. With full customisation, there is no difference between a 50 ton mech and another 50 ton mech. There are no need for all the different mechs then. Just introduce a single mech for the weight classes, 1 for each light/medium/heavy/assault and call it a day and launch the game tomorrow.

With full customisation, you too will have a specific FOTM build that you simply have to use in order to actually have a chance of competing. In fact, it will be even more pronounced. No one will use a stock variant, unless you simply want to make your team pissed off at you for severely handicapping their chances of winning by not using a min-max build.

You also didn't address the fact that there will be mech skill trees players have to grind through to unlock mech variants. Explain why would they make us do that when no one is going to use them and resort to custom mech loadout. And whats the difference then between a Battlemech and the Clan Omnimech?

There are hundreds of mechs and even more variants out there. There are the useless variants but there are also many effective ones. Its simply a matter of PGI selecting the ones that are actually usable in battle. It isn't an insurmountable situation. In fact, it allows PGI a lot more control when balancing the game since they know exactly whats going into the game.

[Rastan]

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

You miss my point. With full customisation, there is no difference between a 50 ton mech and another 50 ton mech. There are no need for all the different mechs then. Just introduce a single mech for the weight classes, 1 for each light/medium/heavy/assault and call it a day and launch the game tomorrow.

Yes/No

For the most part that is true, except they could still impose limits on # of weapons, jump jets (actually don't think assaults even have those) armor (tons) and engine.

But lets say they impose NO limits on individual mechs.. would it really be so bad? people would be able to pick their heavy mech based on design style.. If you restrict then a handful of mechs will stick out as "best in class" and thats what will be used by anyone who has means to get them, but it's uglier then that.. you'll be locked into weapons load outs you don't want.. maybe I want LRM's and a bank of ER Large lasers instead of SRM's and a gauss gun for example.

Let's take a light weight scout mech.. 30 tons.

a large bank of short range lasers that can deliver a lot of upclose fire, outfit it with minimal armor and heavy engine upgrades, and max jump jets, use it to flank assault mechs while it enguages your own team mates assault mech, attack it's weak rear armor.
Or with the same idea in mind outfit it with a lot of flamers and shutdown the heavy mech via core overheating so my team mates can finish it off.. (if it does'nt blow up and take you with it lol)

or maybe i'll outfit that scout with a bank of LRM's & a upgrading targeting computer for long range support.

or maybe outfit it with a single gauss cannon for long range harassment.

I could go on and on but that is actual example configs I used in MW3 on a 30 ton firefly

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

With full customisation, you too will have a specific FOTM build that you simply have to use in order to actually have a chance of competing. In fact, it will be even more pronounced.

Um sorry no.. You just said your self it would eliminate the need for multi mech's of the same class.. that would infact increase the veriety of the mechs on the battle field because people are picking them based more on personal preference of style rather then being locked into using for example mad cat's because that just happens to be 1 of 5 best mechs in the game.

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

No one will use a stock variant, unless you simply want to make your team pissed off at you for severely handicapping their chances of winning by not using a min-max build.

How do you know no one will use the stock variant? I just want the option to customize, some might like the stock loadout.
As far as your team mates these things have ways of working out i've played enough online games and quite frankly this one sounds like it will be far more arcadey then most.
Also those who go for a offense load out will have to give up other things, engine power for speed, jump jet capacity, armor, ammo capacity, heatsinks, any computer upgrades.. etc.. why do people think everything is free?

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

You also didn't address the fact that there will be mech skill trees players have to grind through to unlock mech variants. Explain why would they make us do that when no one is going to use them and resort to custom mech loadout.

Could'nt tell ya just got here, not sure how that system is gonna work out, Honestly it sounds like a crappy idea to me.
why you would need to grind to unlock different load outs seems idiotic time sink to me.. it's busy work.. im sure you'll have to pay for the parts change out as well... more busy work.. we'll have to wait and see.

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

And whats the difference then between a Battlemech and the Clan Omnimech?

I gotta tell ya, I understand the difference as was explained in another thread to me.. but quite frankly don't care.. im obviously not as deep into mechwarrior as you but having played 2,3,4 game I remember being able to customize pretty much what ever I wanted in the 3rd one reguardless of which sides mech it was.

Maris, on 01 March 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

There are hundreds of mechs and even more variants out there. There are the useless variants but there are also many effective ones. Its simply a matter of PGI selecting the ones that are actually usable in battle. It isn't an insurmountable situation. In fact, it allows PGI a lot more control when balancing the game since they know exactly whats going into the game.

the more you lock players into a setup the more you'll see a select few rise to the top and become dominate.
You think this will balance and diversify? it will not! it happens every single time no matter how much you don't want it to, no matter how much you think you've perfectly balanced and offset and countered.

do you think tweaking a weapon here, a extra ton of armor there, a few MPH on the engines will make a difference? We do not yet have a game to play but I can say with almost certianity it wont benough to save every mech, many will fall by the wasteside and be completely ignored except unless it's the only thing a player can afford or is currently LOCKED into at the time, it wont be by choice.

But we'll see.. if they manage to keep all the mech's into play without opening up customizations it'll be a online game first.

[Maris]

Rastan, on 01 March 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Yes/No

For the most part that is true, except they could still impose limits on # of weapons, jump jets (actually don't think assaults even have those) armor (tons) and engine.

And people will just select the chassis with the most critical slot. I mean why would you go for that 50 ton mech which has 90(arbitrary number) crit slots when you can have that 50 ton mechs with 120 crit slots? Also, in that case, only the highest end mech of a certain weight class will be viable while the rest are simply obsolete.

Just FYI, certain assaults have jumpjets. Like the Victor.

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But lets say they impose NO limits on individual mechs.. would it really be so bad? people would be able to pick their heavy mech based on design style.. If you restrict then a handful of mechs will stick out as "best in class" and thats what will be used by anyone who has means to get them, but it's uglier then that.. you'll be locked into weapons load outs you don't want.. maybe I want LRM's and a bank of ER Large lasers -snipped to save space-

There are HUNDREDS of variants out there. Yes some are bad but there are plenty of good ones. I'm sure PGI are smart enough to choose those that are actually effective for each and every specific roles.

Yes it would be that bad because with no restriction, all mechs are simply generic boxes cornered into specific builds.

That, and Battlemechs are not supposed to be fully customisable. They are not Omnimechs.

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Um sorry no.. You just said your self it would eliminate the need for multi mech's of the same class.. that would infact increase the veriety of the mechs on the battle field because people are picking them based more on personal preference of style rather then being locked into using for example mad cat's because that just happens to be 1 of 5 best mechs in the game.

Again, there are HUNDREDS of variants. What can be done without ******* on the lore/canon is for PGI to pick specific mech variants that fulfill certain tactical roles. And let the players decide which suits their playstyle. Don't forget, players will still be able to fit modules/kits to further improve/enhance their playstyle.

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How do you know no one will use the stock variant? I just want the option to customize, some might like the stock loadout.
As far as your team mates these things have ways of working out i've played enough online games and quite frankly this one sounds like it will be far more arcadey then most.
Also those who go for a offense load out will have to give up other things, engine power for speed, jump jet capacity, armor, ammo capacity, heatsinks, any computer upgrades.. etc.. why do people think everything is free?

Is that even a question? Customisation > stock variants for obvious reasons.. Mw2/MW3/MW4 proved that beyond any more need for further explanations. There is a reason why Omnimechs > Battlemechs, not just in lore but gameplay as well.

Yes, some folks might use stock variants for fun but if you are trying to be seriously competitive, then you are doing your team a huge disfavor by not min-maxing your build.

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Could'nt tell ya just got here, not sure how that system is gonna work out, Honestly it sounds like a crappy idea to me.
why you would need to grind to unlock different load outs seems idiotic time sink to me.. it's busy work.. im sure you'll have to pay for the parts change out as well... more busy work.. we'll have to wait and see.

Don't ask me, ask the dev team. Thats what they said in the interviews. Now, its all Work-in-Progress and things may change but as things stand now, thats how it seemingly is.

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I gotta tell ya, I understand the difference as was explained in another thread to me.. but quite frankly don't care.. im obviously not as deep into mechwarrior as you but having played 2,3,4 game I remember being able to customize pretty much what ever I wanted in the 3rd one reguardless of which sides mech it was.

Then u just invalidate your whole stance. Why should anyone take what you say seriously anymore? We are playing Battletech/Mechwarrior here, not generic "Robot Battles" game so some respect for the lore which inspire the game to be what it is and won it many fans, please.

If you want people to take your arguments seriously, some amount of appreciation for the source will help your argument. Besides, like you, I hardly read any of the source book, i've never read any of the TROs except a few glances here and there, i've never read a single novel about the IP, I've never played the tabletop games but I understand the concept and how it works. Its only after MWO announcement that I seriously started to do some research on the game's background. And the player discussions help a lot to further my understanding.

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the more you lock players into a setup the more you'll see a select few rise to the top and become dominate.
You think this will balance and diversify? it will not! it happens every single time no matter how much you don't want it to, no matter how much you think you've perfectly balanced and offset and countered.

And you think full custom mech lab won't produce a specific FOTM build that everyone copies?

Again, hundreds of variants. Of which there are many that can be chosen based on their effectiveness to perform specific tactical roles.

I rather have diversity of mechs with their specific flavor, strengths and weakness than generic 50 ton boxes that means absolutely nothing from other generic 50 ton boxes.

Quote

do you think tweaking a weapon here, a extra ton of armor there, a few MPH on the engines will make a difference? We do not yet have a game to play but I can say with almost certianity it wont benough to save every mech, many will fall by the wasteside and be completely ignored except unless it's the only thing a player can afford or is currently LOCKED into at the time, it wont be by choice.

Obvously it will make a huge difference, or else you won't be arguing vehemently for a full no-restriction mech lab.
You don't need to play MWO to know how it will turn out, there are already preceding MW games. MWO is more or less a graphical update to a very old game concept. Sure it has new bells and whistles, extra features but the core concept, rule and gameplay will remain largely intact. Its still the same weapon techs, chassis, more or less similar control mechanisms etc etc. What happened to the old MW games will happen again now, if they don't avoid the mistakes of the past.

Edited by Maris, 01 March 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[DragonClaw]

i think after you make so many kills that you can costomize the mechs. you know an Ace thing.

[Thorn Hallis]

Canon variants only.

[Kael Tropheus]

None. TT rules is an optional one which in 100% of the times it was allowed in games I played, it broke the game. Same will happen here. Mechs are balanced as it is, let it stay. Not to mention customization is a Clans ability using mechs engineered from the ground up to be able to do it, IS mechs are not.

[Fearon]

My 2 cents... Back in MW4 the customization was limited by slots. I think that's the best way to do it. Every weapon had it's ups and downs. If you had a shizzit load of lasers... you couldn't fire often. Ballistics had ammo... and missiles had were very limited in city maps (LoS could screw you). aaaand you had the extras you could place (scanners and missile defense). There were very FEW Omni slots. My old Daishi was a BADASS in the city... at range... I was absolutely screwed. A few adjustment kept me alive so I could get close and hammer away but like I said... EVERYTHING had it's limitations and strengths. Skill was the real test in that game.

[autogyro]

If we have variants of 'Mechs, why not variants of equipment and weapons.

http://www.sarna.net...i/Autocannon/10

Instead of, say a Defiance Killer autocannon, which is standard, install say, a SarLon autocannon. You can have soft stat bonuses, a bit faster firing, or a bit more damage, etc.

I don't know how strictly canon that would be, but I do believe not all weapons were created equal. I'd like to see this as a form of customisation, rather than say, simply replacing an AC/10 with an AC/20.

[wpmaura]

I am actually a fan of MW4 version where you had specific type of hard points. for weapons.

[GDL Germ]

Karyudo-ds, on 22 January 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

I'm half and half on this. If Omni mechs can be acquired you have to give me reason to want one. If this was like MW2-MW3 and I could just swap whatever/whenever then every mech is an Omni and the clans just have slightly better toys. MW4 on the other hand seemed like a decent comprimise but at the same time being able to swap any missile weapon into my Catapult still made it an Omni mech.

In the board game there wasn't much point to "tweaking" a design what with several hundred official other designs. Plus if you look through the existing varriants theres plenty of options. I could have an Axman with AC's, LRMs, or even gunpods...if I didn't want that, there's other mechs out there. In videogame land though we don't have the luxury of unlimited types of mechs. So I think if we say, get 9 mechs that it might make sense to be able to tinker with them...if we were actually going to get say, 100 (total pipdream!) then I wouldn't think we would need any Mechlab at all.

All depends on the crowd they want to bring in. Not letting us customize weapons or limiting us in how we can do it means we would have to adapt. Many of the ADHD kids of today can't adapt it seems as you can see by BF3 totally going left field from where BF2 was going to meet the CoD kids half-way.

Personally, I would be happy with pure stock mechs as long as you had the varriants to pick from as well. Maybe some jury rig options as well. Though I thought they said there would be a mechlab so who knows... I just hope that when I see a hunchback with its big ol cannon that it's not really sporting 16 machineguns instead.

Maybe if they set it up this way? There's the base mechs atlas,catapult,hunchback etc etc. You can customize them all you want but only to the specifications of the variants of said mech so example you buy a atlas base model and want to "customize" it. You could make into AS7-C, AS7-CM, AS7-D-DC, AS7-K and so forth that seems like a good compromise to me. Instead of having to buy the same mech 6 times for different variants.