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Atlas or Daishi?


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#521 Strum Wealh

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:06 AM

View PostDymitry, on 08 September 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

The Dire Wolf is possibly the only Clan mech for whom his IS designation is more representative of his role than the original name.
If the sighting of an atlas does not scare you, a DW will.
In his prime configuration it outguns every other mech out there. Plus the wolf comes with 19.5 tons of armour and a 300 rated engine as standard.
The "lower armour/slower than an atlas" is another of those lovely MW4 creations. In terms of everything but cost of operation it is way superior to any Atlas.

This said, I am a sucker for the skull head commissioned by the great father himself, always have been!
(emphasis mine)

AS7-D Atlas specifications (originally from TRO 3025)
Dire Wolf/"Daishi" (primary configuration) specifications (originally from TRO 3050)

Actually, the performance/capability gap between the two isn't really that great:
  • speed is identical (in TT terms, both are 3/5)
  • neither is jump-capable
  • armor coverage is identical (304 points of Standard Armor, distributed identically)
  • both lack CASE by default (though, the Daishi can - and generally does - add it as an OmniTech pod without allocating tonnage or space to it)
Atlas weapon tonnage: 36.00 tons

Atlas alpha strike damage (assuming all weapons hit): 72 pts of damage
Atlas alpha strike heat generation: 29 units of heat
Atlas heat dissipation: 20 units of heat per 10 seconds (2.0 units of heat per second)

Daishi weapon tonnage: 50.50 tons
Daishi alpha strike damage(assuming all weapons hit): 98 pts of damage
Daishi alpha strike heat generation: 72 units of heat
Daishi heat dissipation: 30 units of heat per 10 seconds (3.0 units of heat per second)

Atlas cost: 9,519,000 c-bills
Daishi cost: 24,900,000 c-bills

The Atlas may not be able to inflict as much damage in an all-out attack (e.g. alpha strike) and cools 33% more slowly, but it is far more heat-efficient (damage-to-heat ratio for an alpha strike is 2.48, versus 1.36 for the Daishi - 1.82 times the efficiency).
Each is still capable of coring the other in a single all-out attack, but the Atlas would not shut down after the initial strike while the Daishi would; in fact, the Atlas could execute 2-3 such attacks before imminent shutdown became a concern.

The Daishi generally enjoys a substantial range advantage over the Atlas - the Daishi's maximum effective engagement range is 750 meters (versus 630 meters for the Atlas), and the Daishi need only approach to within 360 meters to make use of all of its weapons (versus 270 meters for the Atlas).

The Atlas, possessing both Lower-Arm and Hand actuators (unlike the Daishi), holds an advantage in physical combat; the Daishi can't punch as hard or use melee weapons without those actuators (though, the Clans tend to eschew physical combat, to it's not too much of a loss from the Clan mindset... still, is is an advantage for the Atlas if and when the situation presents itself).
The Daishi, having originally been built without Lower-Arm or Hand actuators, should be capable of flipping its arms over and firing backwards - thus giving it 360-degree coverage for the bulk of its weapons (everything except the LRM-10).

Also, as already indicated, the Atlas costs less to acquire/operate than the Daishi - ~15.7 million c-bills less.
In other words, one could field two very well-paid Atlases for the cost of a single Daishi (which translates into nearly a company of Atlases for each star of Daishi).

In summary: while the Daishi does have some advantages, the Atlas is not without its own advantages, and the claim that the Daishi is "way superior" to the Atlas is arguably an overstatement.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 09 September 2012 - 08:06 PM.


#522 Zavadan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:40 AM

Daishi it is, its one of my favorites, add same armor as the Atlas, and put the rest of kick *** weapons.

#523 Justin Xang Allard

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:53 AM

View PostEgomane, on 27 January 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Why are these threads always comparing a clan mech with an inner sphere mech?
Timberwolf or Warhammer?
Atlas or Dire Wolf?

From a technical point ov view, a clan mech is always superior to inner sphere mechs for various reasons (I will not consider games with a pinpoint accuracy as a legal counter to any of those, as pinpoint accuracy was never intended as a part of the BT universe without a targeting computer):
- Clan tech is less heavy and needs lees space on the chassis
- Clan tech has more punch per ton then any inner sphere weapon counterpart. They also have a better range
- Clan omnis can be refitted for various missions in very short time (remember: it will be a matter of "years" before the IS will have its own omnis)
- Clan mechs of the same weight are often faster and therefor more manouverable then IS mechs, and still have more firepower and range

So if you want to compare something, compare IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan.

That said, I will chose the underdog in this comparison because the deathskull of the Atlas looks awesome. Posted Image

another factor is heat dissapation. heat sinks are better, and clan weapons tend to create less heat per point of damage.
i will take the atlas because it looks..... well frackin awesome!

#524 phlebbb

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:03 AM

Daishi of course...gotta love clan tech ...and since the Stone Rhino/Behemoth2 is not availabler(?) yet....Daishi....

#525 Saxophonist

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:13 AM

Daishi, no questions.

#526 Frostknight

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:39 PM

pointless debate.. both mechs are monsters. Equipment load outs are rediculous for both. It really depends on the pilots.

#527 President Camacho

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:01 PM

I'm all about weapon capacity and the daishi wins.

#528 Odanan

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:16 PM

The right question is: 2 Atlas or 1 Daishi.

View PostStrum Wealh, on 08 September 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

  • both lack CASE


Omni clan mechs have build-in CASE. And the clan weapons goes way farther (also usually with no minimum range).

It's like comparing a F4 Phanton with a F18 Super Hornet.

Seriously, don't base your knowledge in MW4. In fact, forget that game.

#529 jadef1

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:24 PM

Daisha ( widow maker version)

#530 FallguySoldier

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:38 PM

As a fan of reverse-jointed (aka, chicken-legged) mechs, I vote for Daishi.

#531 Strum Wealh

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:01 PM

View PostOdanan, on 09 September 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Omni clan mechs have build-in CASE. And the clan weapons goes way farther (also usually with no minimum range).


Not necessarily.

"Units built using Clan technology (except for ProtoMechs) are presumed to incorporate CASE automatically in all locations that store ammunition or explosive equipment (such as Gauss rifles)."
is followed immediately by
"OmniMechs, OmniVehicles and Support OmniVehicles designed without CASE in their base chassis may add it to later configurations as a pod."
(TechManual, pg. 210)

While the presence of CASE on Clan-built units can generally be assumed, it is technically possible to build a Clan-tech unit where CASE is completely absent (such as the "prime" and "H" variants of the Nova/"Black Hawk").

But, it turns out - after closer inspection of another section of the specifications - that the prime variant of the Daishi does, in fact, have CASE equipped.
(I was looking for it in the primary equipment section where the engine, armor, and fixed equipment would be listed, rather than in the secondary equipment sections below the configurations' weapons... meaning that it isn't fixed equipment, but an OmniTech pod. :P)

#532 vasile

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:22 PM

Dire wolf for sure best weapons mix than the Atlas

#533 Harlock Fredrick

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:57 PM

[color="#959595"]Daishi !![/color]

#534 Quagmire Meow

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:12 AM

I always loved the dire wolf, but i would actually go for a Mad Cat MKII over the dire wolf just because i can use a duel long-toms setup <_<

#535 Zanadoo

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:17 AM

Daishi

#536 Warmaster

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:17 AM

Daishi.....more custom choices to do with it.

#537 The Bad Charlie

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:25 AM

daishi, just dont like the atlas profile... that head is annoying!

#538 Torroc Gnar

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:00 AM

Daishi ... if I'm not mistaken they can carry more. And Atlas' are favorite targets.

One simple eval I do is to strip a Mech down to it's engine to see how much, and what type of, weapons it can carry. I imagine there's a site somewhere that has all that detail.

#539 thelasttrueborn

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:08 AM

Dire Wolf, all the way

#540 DamoclesGuard

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

I vote for an Atlas equipped with weapons stripped from a Daishi.





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