19 replies to this topic

[Listless Nomad]

This is just a suggestion, but as loyalty points seem to be making up a large component of advancing in this game, having them be done right is important.

In my opinion, if you fall in with one house, and then switch to another house - you should lose all of your loyalty points and have to start again with the new house from square one. Maybe you can bring your mech (but as it is technically the regiment's mech - maybe not). This would prevent people from hopscotching around the houses, and add an element of replayability to the game by making you level up with each faction. This would also prevent someone from leaving house Davion - going to house Kurita - building up a lot of loyalty points and having all the benefits when switching between the two. As they are arch enemies it doesnt make much sense for the loyalty to remain high when working with enemies. Perhaps if you went from The Free Worlds League to the Cappellan Confederation - you could retain some loyalty but you get my point. Same with Davion to Steiner and vice versa.

Additionally, if you are with a house and join a merc battalion - there should be a loyalty hit, but you should retain the majority of your loyalty to the house.

Finally, and this is more of a wish than anything else - perhaps having a "reputation" system similar to fallout could make the game more immersive. Participate in a merc raid on a draconis world? Lose reputation with the Draconis Combine. Join a merc company friendly with the FedCom? FedCom rep goes up. This would matter more to mercs than house units, but could add a nice balancing act to merc companies when they make choices on contracts. Perhaps reputation could lead to bonus' like increased pay or tech from an employer with a high rep - and decreased pay from an employer with low rep.

What do you guys think?

Edited by Listless Nomad, 18 January 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[DEVASTATOR]

I think the reputation system of which you speak could basically be the loyalty system - just that your "rep" starts fresh if you leave to go to another house.

I like the idea of losing your loyalty points if you switch houses. There has to be some form of penalty. But, what you actually get from these points is the key. Will they allow you acces to different mechs? Will they allow you to take on different "roles" in the game (which may also determine the mech you get)? I'd really like to see the mechs you get to drive be dependant upon the faction you join. A lot of mechs were tied to specific houses (perhaps not exclusively but some were). That'd encourage people to switch from timt to time to try out new rides and build your "career" up again.

[Listless Nomad]

This comes from the FAQ

"When you first create your pilot, you are going to have to align yourself with one of the Great Houses in the BattleTech® Universe. Each house will have its benefits and drawbacks and it will be up to you to read up on the house selection menu on which house you will pledge your allegiance."

I would hope that mechs would be a part of that for the reasons you described but I fear that they will make all mechs available to everyone to appease the kiddies that whine.
EDIT: This from today's Q&A:
Do factions have access to unique mechs or weapons? -cobrafive

[BRYAN] No. Prices may vary, but everyone has equal access to items.

Bummer.

I can't imagine however, that it would be things such as "House Kurita gets + 5% accuracy to energy weapons" as we are technically the ones aiming. I can see however differences in salaries, perhaps discounts on certain weapon upgrades etc. Mostly economic things.

The difference I see between the loyalty system and the reputation system I've described (as I see it) comes right from the name. Loyalty should increase with service and grant you perks like titles or access to house mechs. It would increase with service, but would disappear with service to other houses. For example - you can build up a lot of loyalty to house steiner, but you can't have house kurita hate you any more than they already do. Reputation would be more for the mercs, as they most balance the good will of all the houses as an essentially neutral entity. I guess if you had everyone start at say 50 loyalty points with all houses, and had loyalty go up when u pick a house and loyalty go down with the other houses as you do missions, then if you decided after a short while you didn't like your house - you could change with a smaller penalty.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 18 January 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[Dlardrageth]

I wonder if it would be necessary to lose all LP if you take a "break" to serve somewhere else. Sure, if you go over to the traditional "enemy faction" (Marik to Steiner e.g.), there needs to be a penalty. But if you just put in a tour of duty with a random Merc unit?

Also it might not be necessary to erase the LP earned in the past. You might simply being made impossible to use them and the faction perks tied to them. Basically being in lockdown until you come "home" again. Eventually with a 10% deduction or something for having taken your break.

[DEVASTATOR]

If they are additive (as they probably will be) then playing for a different house shouldn't necessarily result in them being completely lost I suppose. If you play for the current enemy of your hosue then they gradually drop with every action against your former brothers. If you only played one match for the enemy then came back why should you lose all your loyalty points? If you play for a neutral faction then your loyalty points don't drop or perhaps don't drop as fast (or course, LP with the other factions you play for does start to rise). Same with mercs - if your merc uint is fighting your faction then you lose LP.

?????

Edited by DEVASTATOR, 18 January 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Hey, that all Houses have the same mechs doesnt mean all houses unlock them the same.
there could be the big difference in "housemechs" to unlock certain chassis/variants easyer than others.
or maybe you gain loyalty faster as clan by winning matches by the honor rules (zelbrigen).
I realy hope that the houses have distinct differences and mercenaries can gain a bit of the effects, or choose some with gain of loyalty/rank.

[Listless Nomad]

Dlardrageth, on 18 January 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

I wonder if it would be necessary to lose all LP if you take a "break" to serve somewhere else. Sure, if you go over to the traditional "enemy faction" (Marik to Steiner e.g.), there needs to be a penalty. But if you just put in a tour of duty with a random Merc unit?

Also it might not be necessary to erase the LP earned in the past. You might simply being made impossible to use them and the faction perks tied to them. Basically being in lockdown until you come "home" again. Eventually with a 10% deduction or something for having taken your break.

Well as I explained - you'd only lose your loyalty points under my system if you went for a tour with a rival house, not a merc unit. I have no problem with people doing a tour with a merc unit. You might take a small hit in LP but not lose them all completely. That would only occur if you went to a rival HOUSE. As for your second point, that was how I assumed LPs worked anyway - but with little to no penalty for leaving - there is little to inspire loyalty to your house and you lose some of the immersive and role playing nature. I'm not saying it should be binding forever - but if someone was a Davion Heavy Guard and then just left to join a kurita unit, they would not be welcomed back with open arms.

DEVASTATOR, on 18 January 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

If they are additive (as they probably will be) then playing for a different house shouldn't necessarily result in them being completely lost I suppose. If you play for the current enemy of your hosue then they gradually drop with every action against your former brothers. If you only played one match for the enemy then came back why should you lose all your loyalty points? If you play for a neutral faction then your loyalty points don't drop or perhaps don't drop as fast (or course, LP with the other factions you play for does start to rise). Same with mercs - if your merc uint is fighting your faction then you lose LP.

?????

I guess that's not a bad way - and is probably closer to what will actually happen than what I am describing. I guess I'm just more into the immersiveness of the game and will think long and hard before declaring for a house. If not lose all of your points outright i'd be in favor of a precipitous drop in your old faction's loyalty points. I'm still in favor of losing them all though. Makes changing houses something you have to stop and think about rather than just a willy-nilly decision. The game is free to play so why not make multiple accounts to try out the different houses.

Reno Blade, on 18 January 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Hey, that all Houses have the same mechs doesnt mean all houses unlock them the same.
there could be the big difference in "housemechs" to unlock certain chassis/variants easyer than others.
or maybe you gain loyalty faster as clan by winning matches by the honor rules (zelbrigen).
I realy hope that the houses have distinct differences and mercenaries can gain a bit of the effects, or choose some with gain of loyalty/rank.

A guy in another thread brought up a solid point about this. He suggested that non house mechs should cost significantly more, but also have repair penalties that make them difficult and expensive to upkeep. That should keep most people in house mechs. Besides, that's probably the most realistic as with salvage and enough money - no mech is really exclusive.

Edited by Listless Nomad, 18 January 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Maximilian Thorn]

Actually, I was thinking the penalty would be much more severe as a Faction Loyalist. If you start at say, House Davion, and then work for them for awhile, you would accrue lots and lots of LP for Davion, however, for certain other Houses (i.e. Kurita, Liao, Marik), you just gained a similar number of negative LPs. Which means, at a certain point, it would just be easier to reroll a new character for the other Faction. This would prevent the 'Hopscotching" from one House to another.

[Halfinax]

Uhhh, You realize the Devs have already answered this right? If you play for a faction you lose LP with the factions that they are currently at war with. I don't think they discussed specifically changing factions, but I assume if it is allowed these same rules would apply.

[Omigir]

Halfinax, on 20 January 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Uhhh, You realize the Devs have already answered this right? If you play for a faction you lose LP with the factions that they are currently at war with. I don't think they discussed specifically changing factions, but I assume if it is allowed these same rules would apply.

\

I thought I read that you take a hit to LP points with the former faction when you swap over. if not loose all. Lets just face it, you swap sides, your unloyal ; p

[Agent CraZy DiP]

I'd like to see something where one house could "Bribe" someone away from another house. This would do a straight (or near straight) transfer of LPs from one house to the other. Perhaps it does an exact negative with his previous house? Goes from 57 LPs to -57 LPs while the new house it rounds down to the nearest tenth 50 LPs?

[Listless Nomad]

Agent CraZy DiP, on 23 January 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

I'd like to see something where one house could "Bribe" someone away from another house. This would do a straight (or near straight) transfer of LPs from one house to the other. Perhaps it does an exact negative with his previous house? Goes from 57 LPs to -57 LPs while the new house it rounds down to the nearest tenth 50 LPs?

Would that be player driven or automated. Player driven would require a player run CoC which doesn't seem to be happening - but I could see every once in a while getting a new inbox message in the game with automated offers from other houses to swap sides - perhaps offering LP or mechs or something. Couldn't be too frequent otherwise hopscotching could occur - but it might be a nice incentive for players to try other factions without having to start over. Maybe only have these offers once and if you do decide to switch - you dont get any other offers ever. Kind of like a one time "get out of jail free card"

[Dlardrageth]

Halfinax, on 20 January 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

Uhhh, You realize the Devs have already answered this right? If you play for a faction you lose LP with the factions that they are currently at war with. I don't think they discussed specifically changing factions, but I assume if it is allowed these same rules would apply.

Remains somewhat in the open though how the "lose LP" mechanics would work. You lose them for good or do you just lose access to them? You lose them completely or just a part of those (percentage)? And that doesn't really adress the issue of "going merc/LW" temporarily and what happens in that case.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 23 January 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

A straight swap seems in order. As noted above, you fight for a House you gain LP's for that House. The Houses you fight against have a similiar LP loss based on each fight. If the ratio's are a percentage then a swap may only be advisable to a House that you had the least fights against.

Ex: Your House X and you fight House Y (5 times), Z (3 times) and , W (twice) gaining 100LP for House X.

Then:

A move to House Y would cost you -50LP's,
A move to Z would cost you -30 LP's
A move to W would cost you -20LP's
from House Y's pool of 100LP's and a restart at zero LP's with the new House.

or

To move to House Y would cost you -50LP's from X and starting at -25LP's with the new House,
To move to House Z would cost you -30LP's from X and starting at -15LP's with the new House,
To move to House W would cost you -20LP's from X and starting at -10LP's with the new House,

A switch to a Merc Corp might start as neutral and you gain or lose points versus whatever Houses the Corp fought for or against at some set rate (15% of the Houses current built up Pool?).

Edited by MaddMaxx, 23 January 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

Listless Nomad, on 23 January 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Would that be player driven or automated. Player driven would require a player run CoC which doesn't seem to be happening - but I could see every once in a while getting a new inbox message in the game with automated offers from other houses to swap sides - perhaps offering LP or mechs or something. Couldn't be too frequent otherwise hopscotching could occur - but it might be a nice incentive for players to try other factions without having to start over. Maybe only have these offers once and if you do decide to switch - you dont get any other offers ever. Kind of like a one time "get out of jail free card"

Yeah, it'd have to be auto-mated. It would primarily be a way to prevent one house from getting to over populated.

[Listless Nomad]

MaddMaxx, on 23 January 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

A straight swap seems in order. As noted above, you fight for a House you gain LP's for that House. The Houses you fight against have a similiar LP loss based on each fight. If the ratio's are a percentage then a swap may only be advisable to a House that you had the least fights against.

Ex: Your House X and you fight House Y (5 times), Z (3 times) and , W (twice) gaining 100LP for House X.

Then:

A move to House Y would cost you -50LP's,
A move to Z would cost you -30 LP's
A move to W would cost you -20LP's
from House Y's pool of 100LP's and a restart at zero LP's with the new House.

or

To move to House Y would cost you -50LP's from X and starting at -25LP's with the new House,
To move to House Z would cost you -30LP's from X and starting at -15LP's with the new House,
To move to House W would cost you -20LP's from X and starting at -10LP's with the new House,

A switch to a Merc Corp might start as neutral and you gain or lose points versus whatever Houses the Corp fought for or against at some set rate (15% of the Houses current built up Pool?).

Thats a nice formula - and I'd be ok with it. But I'm more for really making it a big penalty to switch houses. I don't want people bouncing around from house to house like its not a big deal. It just doesn't make sense - and doesn't really allow you to build rivalries with people if poof - suddenly they are on your team. It should be a momentous decision to change teams.

As to the merc argument - it was in one of the dev blogs that all LPs earned go to the merc company collectively - and those determine the merc unit's status with certain houses. It doesn't appear to be attached to the individual members.

Agent CraZy DiP, on 23 January 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Yeah, it'd have to be auto-mated. It would primarily be a way to prevent one house from getting to over populated.

That's not a bad idea - though it seems from these boards at least that each house has a pretty solid following.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Loyalty points being collective to a merc group sounds like a good idea. But I wonder if a merc "commander" would have the right to pick and choose what house contracts are accepted.

Let's say the group is primarily associated with House Davion. The commander should be able to choose if there are other houses he would accept contracts from that are not directly in contention with House Davion. Or he could choose to take those contracts and not reveal what house the contract belongs to if he decided to switch house loyalties. He could build up LP with that "shadow house" (to a point) then declare a switch in loyalties. Once that announcement is made House Davion would reduce his LP to zero (or below) and give out contracts to fight against that merc company.

Other companies could even get bonuses if they are online to fight that company if they were on at the same time and chose to attack them.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 24 January 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Given that they have said all players on starting will have to choose a House, does that mean they can't join a Merc corps straight away?
To be honest I think that they should allow everyone a "grace period" of a week or two for people to transfer to a different House if they change their mind, This assumes that there are differences between them. This should allow transfer of any XP etc. This could be relevant given that we are all hoping for a large influx of players new to the BTU.

[Listless Nomad]

I wouldn't be opposed to a grace period - you are correct that with the influx of new players, some people might want to jump around. Once you are in though, I think the ideas presented here should be implemented, making it very damaging to flip houses unless "hired away" or "turned"

[MaddMaxx]

KuruptU4Fun, on 24 January 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Loyalty points being collective to a merc group sounds like a good idea. But I wonder if a merc "commander" would have the right to pick and choose what house contracts are accepted.

Let's say the group is primarily associated with House Davion. The commander should be able to choose if there are other houses he would accept contracts from that are not directly in contention with House Davion. Or he could choose to take those contracts and not reveal what house the contract belongs to if he decided to switch house loyalties. He could build up LP with that "shadow house" (to a point) then declare a switch in loyalties. Once that announcement is made House Davion would reduce his LP to zero (or below) and give out contracts to fight against that merc company.

Other companies could even get bonuses if they are online to fight that company if they were on at the same time and chose to attack them.

The Dev Blogs seem to indicate that a Merc Corp starts with some LP's for all the Houses. They then select and spend some of those LP's on a particiular House Contract, which in turn, win or lose, based on that Contracts terms, willl add more LP's to that House while also depleting some LP's for the other Houses.

How that all works exactly is for another Month apparently. They might call it. "snipped out fetitious name of month" lol

Edited by MaddMaxx, 25 January 2012 - 03:46 PM.