94 replies to this topic

[Stormwolf]

Jakob Knight, on 11 August 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Then you should realize that what you are asking for is not just gathering of data, but real-time, instantaneous evaluation of that data and implementation of consequences concurrent to the operating code of the game already in place. The evaluation criteria for an AI to determine if a player is being 'honorable' would, itself, require vast resources, considering even Humans disagree on what that means. For the game itself to make decisions on each shot, positioning of the combatants, and the actions of the mechwarrior in regards to the guidelines you outlined would mean a -ton- of new code and intrusive subroutines that would just beg for a host of bugs and hacks.

I gave criterea in a earlier post that can be easily scripted in. AI doesn't factor into this, this is no different then a XP system where players are rewarded for actions. Things like Clan player A is firing on IS player A gets registered, but having Clan player B fire at IS player A would trigger a breach in the code of conduct.

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I know what your perception is because you referenced MW2 (a game which was -entirely- Clan-focused) as your grounds for determining that your system could work. That is a clear indication that you are basing your proposal on the environment of past MW single-player games, which had Clantech as an open and standard technology in use by all players.

You don't know my perception, you are assuming because of a throw away reference, it's a gamble at best.

At any rate, I was referencing the honor system in MW2 because it had sever punishments for firing at a friendly unit.

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And your assumption is false. The devs have already stated that all players will have equal access to all technology and weaponry, so yes...Clantech will, if introduced, be afforded to the IS market.

Clan tech on the IS market would quickly make IS tech extinct. All that work on the IS mechs would have been nothing if they did that. With your proposal they might as well have created a game set during the Wars of Reaving.

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Perhaps you have not figured this out, despite other posters who have.

If the Inner Sphere does not follow Clan ROE, then the Clans are freed from the need to do so. They then suffer no penalties, and destroy the IS forces due to superior technology and combined fire.

If the Inner Sphere does follow Clan ROE, then the Clans suffer no penalties and destroy the IS forces due to superior technology and individual restricted combat.

The IS side will always outnumber the Clan side since a 1 on 1 ratio can't work unless they nerf Clan tech again. You probably never did any research into Clan honor, but Clan players would gain a great bonus if they fought multiple opponents at the same time in a trial.

Getting multiple guys to challenge a Clan player would give a boost to the Clan player. Having the trial devolve into a grand melee will allow the other Clan players to take shots whenever a target presented itself.

You can actually work this to your advantage as a IS player.

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These are the only two possibilities. The only way Inner Sphere technology can match Clan technology is superior numbers and concentrated fire...both of which are prohibited unless the Inner Sphere forces want to free Clan forces to fight without restrictions. It's a catch-22 situation unless the Inner Sphere has 2-to-1 superiority in firepower, and that won't happen.

BV balancing would work way better here. BV2 has its flaws, but it gives a good indication.
And besides, the Clan players should have a bidding system in place to decide who gets to go fight the IS side.

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You assume everyone who will play MWO is a dedicated RP player who will adhere to a set of customs and engagement restrictions. That isn't going to be the case, as most players are video game players who could care less what you tell them to do....they just see Clan tech as the biggest gun to bring to a fight, and who could care less about you telling them how to play their game? That was even admitted to more than once in the very thread you cited. You say there are hordes of groups who play by Clan rules, but I can tell you there are legion more who do not, will not, and will only care about one thing...winning and being able to trash talk about it later. And they -will- be the players of this game, as you have so noted yourself.

If there ever was a textbook case of not getting it, then this would be it.
In RP you don't need to program the restrictions in. Coding them in will get the Clan players to behave moderately like the Clans should.

People love grinding for XP and whatnot, giving punishments in that area for not following the proper codes of conduct will ensure that their character's development is slowed down to a crawl.

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That is how all MW games have been to date, and there is no indication MWO will be any different in this regard.

MWO is different in the regard that it is completely based around multiplayer, the other games had multiplayer as a secondary feature. Certain mechanisms need to be put into place to avoid abuse in multiplayer.

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Experience with every Mechwarrior game, Mechcommander game, Battletech game, and a host of other online games. I have seen what these games become and how people play them. Further, I have seen similar online games to MWO that struggle with each nerf and code change because every single one brings in bugs and code errors that erode game stability.

No offense, but bringing up bugs and coding errors is a rather weak excuse. There will always be bugs, with that reasoning they shouldn't include anymore new content after release since there might be bugs.

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Lastly, I have read these forums, and the evidence of the kind of players who will be in MWO is overwhelming, not the least by the rabid fanaticism of Clan players to have their mechs and factions in a game that has already stated that they are not in the current timeline of the game, and won't be for some time...if ever.

Check your Calender again, the Clans are already in the Periphery. The actual incursion into the IS is March next year.

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I'm sorry to break it to you, but very few players have the dedication you seem to assume they have, and I don't see any evidence they ever will. Until that happens, I cannot accept your conclusions as valid.

There are plenty of players, but there are even more who don't understand the universe that this game is set in. Your own conclusions are more based on assumptions which you treat as fact, not a good thing if you want to have a serious debate.

Edited by Stormwolf, 12 August 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[Jukebox1986]

SakuranoSenshi, on 12 August 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

I wouldn't call this speculation, more "silly wishful thinking in the face of the obvious".

Clans will come (that's 'Word of Dev') but it's not going to be next week.

Exactly.

And Guys, please watch youre language, this is not "flame-wars-online".

[Sidney]

SakuranoSenshi, on 12 August 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

I wouldn't call this speculation, more "silly wishful thinking in the face of the obvious".

Clans will come (that's 'Word of Dev') but it's not going to be next week.

It'll probably be a Zeus.

That being said, what is wrong with wishful thinking? As I said, we see that all the time on these forums.

Furthermore, how does this thread personally affect you? Why is it so hard not to read the thread?

This is the Clan forum. Why must every thread come with several obligatory 'The Clans won't work' posts' from the same people over and over?

[Jukebox1986]

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

That being said, what is wrong with wishful thinking? As I said, we see that all the time on these forums.

Right, but the thread name indicates it could be. And thats wrong.

I dont have a problem with clan mechs/tech (the pilots are something else, it very hard to get them out of my machines... ), but it will be most likely another year before i can loot my LB/X 20 out of a jadefalcon-mech...

[PrimalOctopus]

honestly the concept of waiting a full year or more for clan mechs in this game? ugh.
this game is fun, but a full year?

i am kind of wondering how omnimechs will rock the boat on the game though.
would they be perhaps only usable if you have an active premium account? or perhaps you have to buy them with RL money only.
either that or vastly more expensive,
because the ability to put any weapon, almost anywhere on a mech? yikes, that is going to really change things

[Valaska]

Raalic, on 10 August 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

We have 15 IS chassis at this time, and we’re approaching mid-August 3049.

Many of you remember that Phelan Kell is captured by Clan Wolf on The Rock 3 days from this day, 3049. The Periphery is seeing a good deal of Clan action as we speak, and we will be dealing with a full-scale Clan invasion starting in March of 3050, a mere six and a half months away.

This game will be going live some time in the near future. Exactly when hasn’t been addressed, but with the massive influx of Founders into the Closed Beta, we can at least assume that an Open Beta (something approximating “Live”) will follow suit within a reasonable period of time. We know that not every chassis is implemented right now, and we know that the process of adding ‘mechs to the game is somewhat time-consuming. By the time this game is in Open Beta, it is unlikely that we will have access to all 15 of the so-far-revealed ‘mechs.

My question is this: why does battlemech 16 have to be an Inner Sphere chassis? Wouldn’t the implementation of battlemech 16 put it somewhere around the Clan Invasion?

Maybe 16 is an Inner Sphere ‘mech. Ok. What about 17? 18?

I think we’re really, really close to seeing some Clan tech announcements. There is no reason that revealing a Clan ‘mech would mean that it needs to be in the game prior to March.

I'm going to say we'll not see a Clan Mech until the invasion to be honest.Peripheries don't have it very good with the Innersphere in the first place, and they can't afford mercs.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Furthermore, how does this thread personally affect you? Why is it so hard not to read the thread?

How does my comment affect you personally? Why is it so hard to not read my comment?

Welcome to reality, where anyone with access to a thread can post on that thread. Did you hit your head when you were young, by any chance?

[Sidney]

Janus Wealth, on 12 August 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Right, but the thread name indicates it could be. And thats wrong.

Yes, it does.

And the first post explains why the thread creator thinks it could be.

That's what wishful thinking is.

Janus Wealth, on 12 August 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I dont have a problem with clan mechs/tech (the pilots are something else, it very hard to get them out of my machines... ), but it will be most likely another year before i can loot my LB/X 20 out of a jadefalcon-mech...

And they've been revealing 'mechs for months now- and the game isn't even out yet. While unlikely, we simply don't know what the 'mech will be until it's revealed. (I'd bet money it's one of the 24 'mechs from the Tabletop Box set though)

There are posts here, however, calling the thread creator a '****** ******', stating that the Clans will not be playable, or they won't be in the game for another '7-8' years.

None of which are backed up with reason or explanation. Just stated as fact. And yet, I don't see anyone calling them on it. Except me, I guess.

Wishful thinking or not- I don't care- calling someone a '****** ******' is uncalled for.

And you know what? At least the thread creator actually explained why he thought the next 'mech to be revealed will be a Clan 'mech.

No one knows when the Clan 'mechs will be revealed- although we can reasonably imagine they are coming due to the fact that the Devs have said they are at some point.

And the amount of "Level 2" technology revealed so far- XL engines and ER PPCs being mentioned in previews for example.

Now, I suppose, some of these people know some of us don't- perhaps from Beta.

But that would be breaking their NDA, wouldn't it?

Edited by Sidney, 12 August 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[SakuranoSenshi]

I do support your call for civility, though. I suspect the harsh response is because this has already been done to death, many times over, already. Not really a good excuse though.

As I already said, it's not going to be a Clan mech because there are no Clans in the game and almost certainly won't be for some time and there remain some obvious 'gaps' in the existing (Inner Sphere) mech lineup. I, too, suspect that Zeus is the most likely but honestly? I don't actually care. I trust PGI to get stuff like this right and to get pretty much all of them in there as time rolls on.

[Stormwolf]

Well, I guess we'll know for sure after 15 September.

[Sidney]

SakuranoSenshi, on 12 August 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

I do support your call for civility, though. I suspect the harsh response is because this has already been done to death, many times over, already. Not really a good excuse though.

Thanks, I appreciate yours as well.

In hindsight, I realize this thread probably started in General and not within the Clan forums- and I can understand some heavy handed replies as a result. Not that it's necessarially justified...we have new people signing up all the time, and many of them don't read the Stickies. On the other hand, people venting frustration isn't going to change their habits- they'll still post without bothering to read stickies.

That being said though, this thread has been in the Clans forum for some time now. I don't understand why people will go to the Clan forum and then get upset at people talking about looking forward to the...Clans.

For those people- if you don't like the Clans, here's a thought: Don't browse the Clan forums.

SakuranoSenshi, on 12 August 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

As I already said, it's not going to be a Clan mech because there are no Clans in the game and almost certainly won't be for some time and there remain some obvious 'gaps' in the existing (Inner Sphere) mech lineup. I, too, suspect that Zeus is the most likely but honestly? I don't actually care. I trust PGI to get stuff like this right and to get pretty much all of them in there as time rolls on.

Oh, I'd bet money that the Devs have aTimber Wolf model already. It was probably made up months ago, if not longer.

I'm sure there's a Zeus, too. Probably another dozen Inner Sphere 'mechs made up. Whether they're ready to reveal them or decide which ones will make it into the final game is another matter entirely though.

The Clans arriving in March 2013 wouldn't surprise me at all.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Thanks, I appreciate yours as well.

Nae bother, I'm not always as temperate as I should be but truthfully I usually regret being rude afterwards. It's generally not necessary or even effective. Only human, though.

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

That being said though, this thread has been in the Clans forum for some time now. I don't understand why people will go to the Clan forum and then get upset at people talking about looking forward to the...Clans.

Agreed. I'm interested in the Clans even though I am not a Clan-boi but the only reason someone with no interest could have would be trolling and that's not only annoying and childish but a breach of the rules we agreed to when we joined. I can understand people who do hang out in the Clans section getting fed up with people like that.

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Oh, I'd bet money that the Devs have aTimber Wolf model already. It was probably made up months ago, if not longer.

I wouldn't. It would not amaze me if they did, by any means but I suspect they probably don't, at least not one suitable for release right now. It's actually quite involved making assets for a 3D game and they have enough on their plate making the ones they need in the immediate future without spending time on ones they won't use for months at a minimum.

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

I'm sure there's a Zeus, too. Probably another dozen Inner Sphere 'mechs made up. Whether they're ready to reveal them or decide which ones will make it into the final game is another matter entirely though.

As I said above, I don't think so. I'd bet on a few 'close to ready' models that are being finalized and tested but I strongly doubt they have anything like a large line-up of ready to go models that they're just sat on. It wouldn't make sense from any angle, given we're in closed beta with an NDA.

Sidney, on 12 August 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

The Clans arriving in March 2013 wouldn't surprise me at all.

It would me, I think it pretty unlikely to be that early, though I wouldn't necessarily complain or anything.

{Edited because I tried a different way to reply but it looked awful and was hard to read}

Edited by SakuranoSenshi, 13 August 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[Cerebelli]

Joe Luck, on 12 August 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

I want to see melee combat before the clans get here. Something like that could be a game changer.

Yeah, just imagine if they added an Axman or Hatchetman. THAT would be interesting.

[Stormwolf]

Cerebelli, on 14 August 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Yeah, just imagine if they added an Axman or Hatchetman. THAT would be interesting.

Yeah, the IS would have a advantage over the Clans in that area.