33 replies to this topic

[Gabriel Amarell]

Weapon Tons Crt. Rng. Dmg. Heat Rec. Dmg/ Dmg/ Dmg/ Dmg/ Heat Ton Ct. Sec.
I.S. Lg. Laser 5 2 600 7.5 2.5 5 3 1.5 3.75 1.5
Clan ER Lg. Laser 4 2 800 8 4 5 2 2 4 1.6
I.S. PPC 7 3 750 10 5 6 2 1.429 3.333 1.667
Clan ER PPC 6 3 900 14 7.5 8 1.867 2.333 4.667 1.75
I.S. Gauss Rifle 16 3 800 17 .5 8 34 1.0635 5.567 2.125
I.S. Lt. Gauss Rifle 13 2 1200 12 .4 6 30 .9230 6 2
Clan Gauss Rifle 13 3 800 17 .5 8 34 1.308 5.567 2.125
I.S. LRM 20 11 2 1000 16 1.8 6 8.887 1.455 8 2.667
I.S. LRM 10 6 1 1000 8 1.2 6 6.667 1.333 8 1.333
Clan LRM 20 6 2 1000 16 1.8 6 8.887 2.667 8 2.667
Clan LRM 10 3.5 1 1000 8 1.2 6 6.667 2.286 8 1.333

First; subjectively speaking, of the weapons listed which one is the "best"? In my opinion the answer is the Clan Gauss Rifle. If you think otherwise by all means make an argument for your favorite weapon.

So why is the Clan Gauss Rifle better than the other weapons listed, what categories did it "win"? I would argue that it wins damage/second. How is that possible? The numbers clearly show that the LRM 20's have the highest dmg/sec. What the numbers do not show is that a missile lock is required to fire LRM's with any hope of hitting the target, and that missile lock is achieved by hovering the retacle over the enemy continuously for several (3-4) seconds. If the retacle is moved off the enemy being targeted the lock must be re-aquired. For the sake of argument, let us say that you are an expert with missiles, and the lock time is 3 seconds. LRM 20, 16 Damage, 6 second recycle + 3 second lock on = 16 Damage every 9 Seconds 1.778 Dmg/Sec.

BUT I can keep the retacle over the target indefinitely and never have to re-aquire lock on. Yeah... while maneuvering your mech against a moving target, *cough* bull*$%! *cough*. 9 seconds is generous. LRM 20's also get only 12 salvos unless you add ammunition (12 additional salvos / Ton of ammo) so their dmg/ton is also optomistic to say the least.

So whats the problem with PPC's and L. Lasers? At best they only do 82.35% of the dmg/sec of the Clan Gauss Rifles. (assuming you’re talking about the Clan ER PPC, the highest dmg/sec weapon out of that group). Also, the dmg/ton is quite skewed for energy weapons, in order to fire as the weapon come off recycle every time several heatsinks per weapon are required. If you figure 1 ton of heatsink for every 2 heat (that is extremely optimistic but I am understating it to give the weapon the best dmg/ton rating possible) that would mean the actual weight of the Clan ER PPC is 9.75 tons, 6 tons of weapon weight + 3.75 tons of heatsinks (7.5 heat 1 ton of heatsink for every 2 heat) At 9.75 tons with a dmg rating of 14 the dmg/ton rating would be 1.4359 still ahead of the dmg/ton rating of the Clan Gauss Rifle, (1.3077) but only by 9.8% not the 52.94% the table indicates. Yes the Gauss requires Ammo, but it gets 24 shots/ton, and I almost never use more than 72 shots, and as I previously indicated, 1 ton of heatsink for every 2 heat the weapons generate is VERY optomistic, I think most people who have played MW4 would agree.

Large Lasers are too large (2 Crits) and too Heavy (6 tons if you include the minimum number of heatsinks needed) to mount them in sufficient numbers to be effective. PPC's have exactly the same problem, the damage output is not high enough to justify the excessive weight (10 tons if you include the minimum number of heatsinks needed) and bulk. (3 Crits)

Personally, I would like to see Large Lasers decreased in size to 1 Critical, and the heat disapation capacity of heatsinks substantially increased (such that 1 single heatsink dissapates 1.5 heat/second and 1 double heatsink 3 heat/second). For PPC's I would like to see the size decreased (from 3 crits to 2) and the damage increased from 14 (Clan ER PPC) to 20. As far as missiles, I would like to target an enemy, initiate missile lock on, and have the mech's targeting computer maintain the lock regardless of my actions as long as the enemy is visible to the mechs radar (I.E. as long as it is in line of sight and in range) Of course I would also like to see the dmg changed to 1.25 dmg/missile, assuming the missile hits the target. Actually, these are not the only changes that I would make to missiles, but this post is already too long. If there is any interest perhaps I will elaborate further.

So then here is the question, what is the best or the worst LONG RANGE weapon in the previous mechwarrior combat simulation titles. Why is the weapon so good, or so bad? Most importantly, If the weapon was "bad" how would you change that weapon to make it more viable/fun?

P.S. I wrote this little post in MS word, and then imported it, and the nicely laid out chart I created didnt survive process in tact. If you know how to import with the format in-tact feel free to share, thanks, Gabe.

Edited by Gabriel Amarell, 26 January 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Striker1980]

I want to love LRM's but always felt that they took too long to lock on to be practical in a real battle, they also seem to miss FAR too easily not to mention the effects of LAMs or AMS on them (I'm talking MW4 here BTW). That would be where I would like to see an improvement in long range weapons.

Well, it would be nice if A/C 2's could fire a continuous stream of 30mm rounds like a real auto cannon (Bradley IFV stylee).

:-)

[Evedro Solais]

I would have to say a bank of several AC/2s linked together to produce a continuous stream of death. With proper aim and assuming the ballistics behave as they would in universe(I.e arent deleted after x seconds or x metres and are affected by gravity) You could easily increase the estimated range of the weapon as well.

[Nerts]

ERPPCs, plenty of damage, very accurate, don't require ammo and they just look awesome.

[Morashtak]

Ballistic weapons are bit bit tough to curve over the top of a hill - will take LRM's for painted targets I otherwise cannot lock on to.

Energy weapons for protracted battles - does lead to spray and pray engagements, tho'.

Flat trajectory ballistic weapons are great for heat:weight but not fun when you pull the trigger and it just goes "click".

Each have their own part in the different parts of the battle. Sniper role could be frustrated by jamming modules/pods which will put a neat twist on camping.

[FACEman Peck]

Gauss. Flies strait. Hits hard. No heat. Nuff said. Oh, and the C-Bill also determines my choice. Mass C-Bills=you killed fast

[TheRulesLawyer]

Thing about the energy weapon is that you can take those low percentage shots. Gauss rifles can't afford to miss. I'd except ballistics to have an edge in DPS to compensate for that.

[renegade mitchell]

Had lots of fun with LRMs in previous games. But ER Large lasers ruled MW4 early on, but ERPPC pretty much dominated in MW4 Mercs.

Edited by Renegade Mitchell, 26 January 2012 - 04:24 PM.

[Opus]

LRM's to soften them up, not as kill weapons, Gauss should be your "Final Kill" and long range; the trick is ""Staying at Long Range""

[renegade mitchell]

Opus, on 26 January 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

LRM's to soften them up, not as kill weapons, Gauss should be your "Final Kill" and long range; the trick is ""Staying at Long Range""

Yes best as support fire.

[ENDMYSUFFERING]

Gauss. It has low heat, high damage, high range, and relatively low recycle times.

[Kenyon Burguess]

no sense listing IS weapons next to clan....

that being said, i'd rather field Ultra-autocannons at range and keep the energy weapons for the midrange alpha strike.

[Opus]

Geist Null, on 26 January 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

no sense listing IS weapons next to clan....

that being said, i'd rather field Ultra-autocannons at range and keep the energy weapons for the midrange alpha strike.

I found AC's at long range mean wasted ammo, but then again, I waste Gauss ammo freely, duh.....

[PhoenixGWR]

You really can't argue the best weapons, favorite?. Yes everyones got favorite guns i personally prefer the RAC 5s but its all about who play with what toys the best. I am terrible with short range and light mechs. I on the other hand dominate in an assualt or heavy with mid-long range weapons comparing weapons to tactical purpose understandable but in this game do you really know what youre up against? if its like MW4 (Thank god i know that doesnt mean modern warfare) you see whats mechs but not weapon setups youre at a blind glance of what to bring so you cant say that PPCs over Gauss because of DMG or Recycle time because they all they're own specific job in the end.

[Jack Gammel]

Putting Clan tech next to IS tech seems unnesessary. Clan tech is ALWAYS going to be better than its IS equivalents.

Within that list the overall best weapon (at least in my opinion) is the Clan guass rifle for a pure combination of damage potential and low heat. Clan LRM20's are a very close second (with better potential for crits...at least in the TT game...and wide damage spread).

Edited by Jack Gammel, 26 January 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[merged]

Gauss. It's pretty much impossible to score a headshot with missiles.

[Phades]

If I were to pick only one weapon, it would be the large laser due to it having reach and flexible fire ranges withdecent damage output and easier heat management compared to the PPC and lower weight. Quite overlooked is the AC10 as it has a good range as well and not handicapped up close. It is usually a toss up between that and the AC5 depending on what weight and other weapons are fielded on the unit. PPCs I like on heavier mechs setup as artillery pieces and do either a rifleman style layout on the weapons alternating between PPC and AC or guass if an assault mech and use a paired firing pattern of left ppc/gauss right ppc/gauss.

Although overall mech build is important as well. For example, if bringing a fire support mech designed to soften, pairing LRM with LBX AC with both scatter and slugs can be very effective. Pepper at range and when they close switch to slugs and back up medium lasers to punch holes through the weaker armor points.

In all honesty though, it does come down ultimately to the weight class of the machine and the desired engagement range it has. Medium and Light mechs will be far better served with a large laser or LRM 5s over AC, PPC, or gauss due to weight and size constraints. Even in the instance of LRM-5 there is a strong argument to use SRM instead due to heat to damage output considerations and total ammo reserves. Heavy and Assualt mechs can more easily get away with the AC 10, Gauss, and PPC options. How many and which type comes down largely to design and which exact weight break point the machine is.

[osito]

i like the gauss with lrm for long range. problem with the gauss is the crits and tonnage. for med/lights i like large laser and some srms.

[Volkite]

Gauss to open them up, then ATMs to crit-seek.
Sure a Clan Gauss weighs 14T to have any decent ammo reserves, but that's fine. Getting a Clan PPC with equivalent heat sinking power is 14T too. Does the same damage and such. But the Gauss takes up 8 spaces including ammo, while the PPC taking 2, then another 16 for the 8 double heat sinks. Unless you're using a large engine you can't place enough heat sinks for PPCs to be efficient, but Gauss are a constant thing. You know what you're getting.

Then Swarm LRMs or ER ATMs afterwards, they may not do much damage and need to lock on, but that's a lot of possible critical hits on an exposed area. Gauss is good for the opening up.

Edited by Merovigian, 26 January 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[Yogibear24]

ER PPCs create too much heat in a mech. Ballistic weaponry such as the gauss rifle run out of ammunition in long battles. I like the ER Large Laser because it doesn't create as much heat as a PPC, and is also much easier to aim and shoot. When your target reticule foes on a target, if that target moves, the laser "tracks" it and still hits the target. I tend to miss a lot with the PPC because it takes a lot more accuracy. And if you miss, you end up just generating a huge amount of heat for yourself.

I once created a Nova Cat in MW4. That had 6 ER Large Lasers, and 3 Clan Machine Guns. I was able to manage my heat much better than the original design, where the Nova Cat had 3 ER PPCs I believe. These 6 ER Large Lasers caused as much damage as the original 3 ER PPCs, and also produced less heat. I needed a lot less heat sinks for the mech than if I decided to keep the original 3 ER PPCs.

LRMs don't seem as great as they used to. I used to like how I could snipe with them, but there's just no longer any interest in them for me. They only feel effective if you have a Longbow (Which doesn't exist in MWO's timeline, but exists in MW4), which can carry about 10 LRM 20s.

Edited by Yogibear24, 26 January 2012 - 08:12 PM.