466 replies to this topic

[Brenden]

Wait. Why are we even discussing Politics about the Real World, when this is about a Massive Interstellar Universe (MIU)? Shouldn't we be talking about In-Game politics instead of real life?

[Justin Xang Allard]

Dymitry, on 14 August 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

For what it matters, from my European prospective, Mr. O. has done a good job considering the circumstances, at the very least, it has regained some credibility for the States. Regardless of what they promise during campaign (the same stuff in every democratic country) Economics factor are global (and always increasingly so) and no single politician, no matter who, can change the course of certain cycles.

I also do not want to dwell to much on details, but to think that a candidate for the presidential election, or any member of its entourage for the matter, can come from a working-class background, its optimistic at best. Most of these guys live and grow (politically at last) in a bubble.

Of course a euro prospective where he gives BILLIONS of our tax dollars to the international monitary fund every time greece sneezes, of course you would think that he is doing a great job. We bend over backwards to be kind to every single dictator in the world while throwing dumptrucks full of cash to the euros, of course you would like him.

now im going to vote for anybody but obama. id even vote for my cat, at least he would be able to decrease the unemployment rate.......

[Justin Xang Allard]

qultar, on 31 August 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

two things
one do not trust the Justice department it is any thing but
and two voter fraud dose happen

Truth

[abetterpilot]

Obama pushed the cafe standard to 54mpg= yay
didnt veto the healthcare law thats been tied around his neck= boo
his stimulus, was against before i was for simply because of the way he did it, and if you have never visited the web site where it is laid out for you, you have no opinion about it.Recovery.gov
that site makes me mad as **** that every gov agency is not mandated to have a similar site for us to track our money.
www.recovery.gov = yay
watching him butcher the repubs when he did the QnA with them early on(eric cantor saying, we wont keep you much longer mr president, and him saying, no! its ok! im having a good time!)=yay
not doing everything he could on the economy=boo

i will leave you with my overall political view i take form George Washington's farewell address, a truly must read, for anyone getting their political on.
this very small quote says it all and makes me weep reading it at its spot on ness

I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.
This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

[Vanguard319]

Dymitry, on 14 August 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

For what it matters, from my European prospective, Mr. O. has done a good job considering the circumstances, at the very least, it has regained some credibility for the States. Regardless of what they promise during campaign (the same stuff in every democratic country) Economics factor are global (and always increasingly so) and no single politician, no matter who, can change the course of certain cycles.

I also do not want to dwell to much on details, but to think that a candidate for the presidential election, or any member of its entourage for the matter, can come from a working-class background, its optimistic at best. Most of these guys live and grow (politically at last) in a bubble.

From my American perspective, Obama has not done a good job. I give him credit for giving the go-ahead to put down *********. (especially since the recovered intelligence bagged at least two more of Al Qaeda's most dangerous.) However, he did not do squat for the economy, which has been one of the country's major concerns. The affordable health care act was found to be unconstitutional in it's original form, (it can only be enforced as a tax, which he said it wouldn't be) and added to the national deficit. (again, he promised it wouldn't) I also feel he had no business getting involved with that incident with the Cambridge professor.

As a resident of Massachusetts, I'm somewhat reserved in regards to Mitt Romney, I don't believe we should be spending more on the military when we're winding down from a decade of war. (We already have the most powerful military on Earth, and a budget three times bigger than the next country to back it up, do we really need to spend more?) On the other hand, the Democratic party in general left such an awful aftertaste over the last four years that I still see him as the lesser of two evils.

Talk about picking your poison...

I agree with your other opinion, maybe our government is so screwed up because too many of our politician's live in ivory towers. We need more people in government who can actually relate with the concerns of the common man, not people who think their Ivy League education gives them insight.

Edited by Vanguard319, 03 September 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[Dymitry]

Justin Xang Allard, on 01 September 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Of course a euro prospective where he gives BILLIONS of our tax dollars to the international monitary fund every time greece sneezes, of course you would think that he is doing a great job. We bend over backwards to be kind to every single dictator in the world while throwing dumptrucks full of cash to the euros, of course you would like him.

now im going to vote for anybody but obama. id even vote for my cat, at least he would be able to decrease the unemployment rate.......

What? Are you serious? the IMF? What do they teach to you guys at school? Look, you do not even need to go and open a book, or try to understand why having a strong euro is good for the US. Just read the wiki entry. Pretty pretty please.

[Stalephreak]

The Wee Baby Seamus, on 14 August 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

by that defintion no one can be president, since no one is a natural citizen. except if you vote for howling red lynx, who lies in the ditch with a liver failure.

Failed history didn't you 85 (Alien3 reference).

Let's start with the "Native American" arguement. Historically speaking, they migrated across the bearing straight. They're not natural there. Next, they intermarried, didn't they? Yup, sure as **** did. So now we have whites, blacks (who were kept as slaves by the native americans....OH, that's not in history books...white boy's fault, right....), mixtisos, etc..... that all have "native american" blood. Wait, I'm not done poking holes in your kindergarden level views yet. Most tribes can't keep track of all the people who have "native american" blood, so they ALL take membership out of tracability and provable percentage of heritage based on the Dawes Rolls. Don't know what those are? The Dawes Rolls was a census taken of the 5 civilized tribes. Many Native Americans hid from the census takers. Trail of Tears and what not...made sense at the time to hide. So you've now got a bunch of unregistered Native Americans breeding, but the tribes won't acknowledge their own (because they don't want to split the reparations). Need proof of that? Last year, the Cherokee decided to try kicking the freedman out of the tribe. (Freedmen were slaves held by the native american tribes during the census. All tribes consider them as native american.) By kicking them out, the tribe would have more resources for itself. Therefore, even by your pitiful definition, there's no way to track who's a "natural" citizen. American politics states a more straightforward definition, which is far more useful.

And if you want my opinion (you don't, but you're getting it anyway), I've got mostly celtic heritage, but a significant amount of native american as well. The celts will accept me as I am (member of a clan), whereas the Cherokee place much scrutiny under it, and may still deny membership even after minimum requirements are all met. Seems to me the "white" Celts take far more pride in their lineage. I'm not going to apologize for the mistreatment of the Native americans, as they denied me, and still actively try to deny many others.

I'm not apologizing for mistakes of my ancestors, they're not my problem. We're on a level playing field now, stand up and prove yourself. Actually, it's not even a level playing field, as affirmative action places quota ristrictions on white people in the workplace, but I'll still play and not whine about the results. And in light of the 'La raza" movement, I think there's bigger things to worry about. ****** just described a master race, these guys are busy calling themselves 'THE RACE".

Point is, we're supposed to be able to just get along. Grow up, act like an adult and stop finding excuses. The playing field is about as level as it's going to get (historically speaking).

[Stalephreak]

Hi *t *ler is filtered? Is there really anybody on the planet who doesn't know of that guy?

[Elsydeon]

The stated intent of the law is not always the effect, in fact, the actual intent can be the exact opposite of the stated intent. This is typically the case with various "helping hand" laws which are designed explicitly to keep those they "help" in a situation where they require help. An example of such was I was denied food stamps because I was working and attending college, despite meeting all other requirements. Now that I am unemployed and no longer getting an education, I get food stamps.

The notion of white males having more education and money is racist and untrue. There are quite a few white males without either, especially now due to the poor economy. Anybody whom can graduate high school can enroll in an accredited community college and the Pell grant and various scholarships will provide financial assistance, not to mention various benefits for veterans (in Illinois, vets do not pay for college tuition at state-funded schools)

Affirmative Action being racist, providing disincentive to perform, and causing racism is not speculation, it is observed and well-documented. In fact, the ending of the movie "American History X" was about the racism being caused by AA. Another example of this was the extreme hatred the German people had toward France for the harsh "reparations" demanded by the Treaty of Versailles that allowed ****** to take power.

The fact of people being disenfranchised in the past is exactly that, in the past. We do not count blacks as 3/5 of a person for representation, enslave them (although slaves were treated very well in reality, to the point that many volunteered to fight the North during the Civil War), deny them the right to vote or run for office (remember, our president is black, not exactly disenfranchised), or segregate them. They are legally equal to whites in every way and have even more economic and educational opportunities than whites due not only to AA, but racist scholarships.

CAFE is a failure, although intended to make cars more efficient, it has done the opposite. The demands raise the prices of new cars, forcing people to drive their cars longer, and therefore, sell them later, meaning the secondary market also drives older vehicles. The provisions allow the system to be gamed (minivans were classed as trucks by Lee Iococca in order to use lower MPG standards, SUVs did this with station wagons, flex-fuel cars get a big boost to push E85 despite nobody using E85 due to the lower efficiency of the fuel) E85 is a failure itself, being our methods of production raise food prices and increase CO2 emissions by desequestering the carbon that the corn has trapped (that was discovered at the University of Illinois).

As for WMDs in Iraq, the press was distracting American with months of reporting our VP having a hunting accident so they would not find out that there was indeed a WMD program in Iraq.. General Gorges Sada, ******'s #2 in the Iraqi Air Force, explicitly stated that there was a WMD program that was shipped to Syria under the guise of humanitarian aid when UNSCOM came inspecting, and gave them a big distraction with refusing to allow presidential palaces to be inspected. Also, our troops have been hit with IEDs made from chemical weapons from ******'s stockpiles (one was a sarin artillery shell, thankfully the shell was designed to mix the precursor compounds by spinning in flight, it was simply detonated). The problem is the term WMD does cover chemical and biological weapons, however, most people forget that and think it pertains to nukes.

My belief that people would abuse free healthcare is well-known human behavior. If someone were to give you free beer, as much as you wanted, you'd likely be wearing a shirt that instructs people on the recovery position within a week. The same is true for healthcare, people will abuse it, knowing they can get something they want for free. Instead of simply toughing out a small problem (like a cold) they will run to the ER (easiest way to get a walk-in appointment) and get a doctor to give them a "get out of work free" card. Of course, this will also harm businesses as they have less staffing than they need (especially if there is incentive to do so, such as paid sick leave or salaried employees whom get paid anyway). The European countries with socialized healthcare do not give it out for free, but instead have a small upfront cost for most services. Germany is very mercantile and doctors will outright refuse to treat you (you keep a card with your insurance info in your wallet for emergencies) unless you can prove you can pay. The Canadian healthcare system is famous for its six month waits.

The stimulus was a failure. The economy has not improved and has, in fact, gotten worse since Obama has came into office. The stimulus has added over a trillion in debt to our nation, created fears of hyperinflation, and has devalued the American dollar to the point where the Canadian dollar is higher than ours, something that shocked a few Canadians I know, even months after it was announced.

Despite being a constitutional law professor, Obama has violated the Constitution a number of times. He illegally appointed people using recess appointment power while Senate was session, violated the War Powers Resolution with the war in Lebanon (the POTUS can not declare war, only Congress can, the WPR was a codification of that that prevents "police actions" like the Vietnam war by requiring all deployments over 90 days to be approved by Congress), and bestowed titles of nobility upon his appointees (referring to them as Czar, a bastardized version of Tsar, the rulers of the Russian Empire).

Interfering with a civil war is not the way to national security. Russia was right about Lebanon, the authorization not having a limit would be abused to do more than protect civilians and to prosecute a war against Lebanon's lawful ruler (like him or not, he is the recognized lawful ruler). Involving us in wars against countries which are not attacking or about to attack us or our allies is asking for terrorists to come calling, and not with some elaborate planes into buildings stuff (some people die, and it just ****** us off), but stuff that is more pragmatic, like unleashing biological weapons (which are ridiculously easy to smuggle into America) on populated areas (lots of people die horribly, and the population gets terrified). Leaking stuff about ********* and Stuxnet not only invites retaliation, but makes our allies less likely to trust us.

[Joe Luck]

Elsydeon, on 31 August 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

In short, Obama is the worst leader this country has ever had.

I have to comment on this...

http://www.usnews.co...t-presidents/11
http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

Pretty much states that James Buchanan (1857-1861) was the worst president...

Something about allowing the spread of slavery saying "it is a necessary evil".

hmmm.... oil prices/LGBT/Universal Healthcare or Slavery? which is worse?


One of the candidates actively sent Jobs to a communist regime for decades while the other has not punished that communist regime for currency manipulation which defrauds capitalistic principles of the free market thus allowing communist companies an edge over American ones(though most of this happened under Bush).

Both suck but not the worst possible presidents... The real question will be who is more likely to sell you out to the highest bidder. That's a personal question for everyone that should not be based on party affiliation. If you answer is based on party affiliation then your candidate will most likely sell you out because you are an easily led sheep.

Edited by Joe Luck, 04 September 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Swazi Spring]

I'm very politically active and I'm even majoring in political science, but I am simply disgusted with this election. There's no way I would ever vote for Hussein, not in a million years. Obama has proven time and time again that he is incompentent, hates America, hates guns, and hates the Constitution. My problem though is that nobody real is standing up to Obama, both Obama and Romney are so far left that they are virtually indistinguishable from each other. I was originally going to vote for Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party, but now I might vote for Romney in order to keep Obama from being re-elected. They're both socialists, but I'm banking on the idea that Romney will be forced to move further to the right (especially in terms of the economy) in order to please Congress and the American people (conservatives).

[Dymitry]

I need to stop reading this thread. This is hopeless.

I seriously hope that this topic is not representative of the inhabitants of what is supposed to be the world leading nation. There are glimmers here and there, but I was hoping for more, I guess.

Back to Urbie.

[Sam Slade]

Dymitry, on 04 September 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

I need to stop reading this thread. This is hopeless.

I seriously hope that this topic is not representative of the inhabitants of what is supposed to be the world leading nation. There are glimmers here and there, but I was hoping for more, I guess.

Back to Urbie.

I'm with you... vote Odin.

[Shakma]

Hax DB Header, on 14 August 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

The US has been suckered into thinking that a two party political system works. Ultimately a two party system fails because they don't have to work on good ideas to get you to vote for them, they just have to scare you that the other side will <fill in the blank>. Once you get 3 or more parties then you can actually vote for a party you agree with and politicians have to figure out how to work together to keep large portions of the population happy rather than afraid.

The thing I find scary is that my country has started to drift that way. The same tone of "who cares what we offer you, be afraid of the horror they will wreak upon you" has begun to infiltrate our politics (Canada).

Well I don't want to disillusionate but as a german I can tell you that even 5 parties (maybe 6 in the near future...) don't make the grass greener on the other side.

[Swazi Spring]

Mopar, on 04 September 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Both sides are WONY and that is the end of it. They both make promises to help the people and then only help their party. Both sides are based on platforms that sound good on paper but in reality are pure fiction. Both sides talk about responsability but except none. Both sides cry anout how evil and underhanded the other is while perform the same kinds of actions.

In the end the biggest issue facing the US today is not terrorism or the economy, but rather a two party political system that have removed the people from the equation giving us no choices but the ones they offer.

Want some real change in Washington, do not vote for ANY Republican or Democratic candidate, send a clear message that the two party system must go. Yeah the third party guys might be nuts in many cases but nuts might be a nice change over crooks and *** men.

Voting third party is a good idea, but sadly unrealistic for major offices, I believe a much better path to go would be to utilize primaries. Too many people don't vote in primaries, even some people who follow politics a lot will say "I'll just vote for whoever the Republican candidate is," as opposed to choosing who the Republican candidate is. Primaries are ussually a tight-nit race between two kinds of people, the 'real' conservatives/libertarisn who are fiscally conservative, and the left-wing Christian fundamentalists, socialists, and other undesirable groups. We need to fight in the primaries for more libertarian candidates, to prevent the Christians and socialists from hijacking our party any further.

[Jiri Starrider]

Really guys?

Really?


So anywho,

Here is the problem. Prove that I'm wrong. (no, don't have a solution either, other than Jack Ryan for President in the same manner he obtained it fictionally)

[Skinflowers]

HiggsBoson, on 04 September 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Wow. My first day here, just got my acceptance email... and this is the top featured thread. You guys have fun, I am taking my money elsewhere.

So you're not going to play this game because the forum has a politics thread? Really?

You must be new to the internet. Welcome!

[ArgonNator]

Need Ron paul or Gary Johnson !!!! Romney=Obama 2.0

[Swazi Spring]

Skinflowers, on 04 September 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

So you're not going to play this game because the forum has a politics thread? Really?

You must be new to the internet. Welcome!

Heaven forbid the people he plays games with have intellectual discussions in the off-topic section of the game's official message board that he is not required to visit.

[Catamount]

Dymitry, on 04 September 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

I need to stop reading this thread. This is hopeless. I seriously hope that this topic is not representative of the inhabitants of what is supposed to be the world leading nation. There are glimmers here and there, but I was hoping for more, I guess. Back to Urbie.

Only the ignorant have notions of the United States being the "leading nation" of the world these days. Don't get me wrong, we're a great country and we hold our own in many respects, but these days we don't actually lead the world in much beyond incarceration rates and extraneous military spending.

With that said, please, don't assume that everyone in this nation is as some of the posters you're seen here. We've actually had some good and productive political discussions on these forums before, and there are a lot of educated people here, so when you see a statement like

Quote

The notion of white males having more education and money is racist and untrue.

and you realize someone couldn't be bothered to check their statements against a 42 second trip to Wikipedia before going on with a several thousand word rant, please don't think that it's representative of the entire US. I promise you, it isn't

Process aside (and really, kudos to him for trying), most such people have just moved on from this thread, since all the substantive conversations were already had, and frankly, the thread has been reduced to playing whack-a-mole with ********. I threw in the towel after spending three pages debating with someone who's entire purpose here was basically to reignite the red scare, as if our nation hadn't grown out of that decades ago (back when Reagan was still trying to argue that instituting medicare would lead to the loss of all our freedoms; funny the parallels with that kind of anachronistic talk and some of what we've seen here).


This thread never really had a positive attitude to begin with though, so it's no surprise that of all the political discussions that have come about have been of a somewhat lower quality that has typified political discussions on these forums.

Edited by Catamount, 04 September 2012 - 01:24 PM.