34 replies to this topic

[Lightdragon]

periphery is not inner sphere so they do not exist in the timeline yet

[aresfiend]

Lightdragon, on 14 August 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

periphery is not inner sphere so they do not exist in the timeline yet

That makes just as much sense as "I can't see you, I can't hear you, therefore you're not there.".

[Stormwolf]

Lightdragon, on 14 August 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

periphery is not inner sphere so they do not exist in the timeline yet

Your argument doesn't make any sense.

[Lightdragon]

what part doesnt make sense?? none of the houses have seen the clans yet at this time so the clans dont exist yet are you that dense?

[Stormwolf]

Lightdragon, on 15 August 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

what part doesnt make sense?? none of the houses have seen the clans yet at this time so the clans dont exist yet are you that dense?

I've never seen a great white shark up close, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Or are you under the impression that the Clans were founded in 3050? There is no shame in not knowing all the lore of the BT universe, just ask people for info.

[Lightdragon]

im saying to the house lords they dont exist yet [REDACTED]

Edited by Helmer, 15 August 2012 - 06:06 PM.
Edited for content.

[0d1n]

Would be nice if we could actually discuss the mech and not pointlessly argue with dragon who's proved several times he's just flamebaiting and trolling.

[Deceptor]

I Think OP is on spot with the high risk, high reward idea. I think all the people

Quote

whining

about the accuracy of the timeline are forgetting that games are supposed to be fun. And when you are trying to make a game that is the most fun for as many people as possible, more mechs is, hands down, going to win out over when this thing or that thing should show up or not. Seriously, I think some of you would like to wait till you were on your deathbed to see some of the cool s*** we ALL KNOW ABOUT in the game. There's no un-ringing the bell just because you don't have your precious time machine yet.

That being said, ya this rhino thing really is just too slow for multilpayer.

[Stormwolf]

0d1n, on 15 August 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Would be nice if we could actually discuss the mech and not pointlessly argue with dragon who's proved several times he's just flamebaiting and trolling.

You're right.

At any rate, people would love the Stone Rhino. Those two Gauss Rifles + Large Lasers would make mincemeat out of most IS mechs in moments.

[Pax Bellum]

0d1n, on 15 August 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Would be nice if we could actually discuss the mech and not pointlessly argue with dragon who's proved several times he's just flamebaiting and trolling.

Is that not what all personal suggestions and wish lists are for?

All that aside, I loved that mech on pen and paper and MW4. That being said I would gladly use a Maurader or Atlas all the same.

[Victor Morson]

0d1n, on 15 August 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

Would be nice if we could actually discuss the mech and not pointlessly argue with dragon who's proved several times he's just flamebaiting and trolling.

It sounds like he's just trying to point out that, given the game is set in the IS and not in the Clans right now, we won't be seeing any Clan 'mechs until the Clans arrive. Not that they don't exist.

Honestly it sounds like people just keep taking what he's saying out of context.

Anyway not to rain on anyone's parade but the Stone Rhino is unseen anyway, so forget about it now.

[Tardstrong]

When the time comes this could be added but for myself the positives don't outweigh the benefits. It can only do one thing, but when the stars align and Duncan smiles down at you and everything is in your favor...this would be awesome.
Of course I can't argue much since I want the Hollander, which is in the same position as the Stone Rhino.
To each there own but before I'm saying add this mech I would wait and see what other mechs have been added.

[driveandkill]

What about the Behemoth 2 with its mighty Railgun ;D

[Lightdragon]

Victor Morson, on 31 August 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

It sounds like he's just trying to point out that, given the game is set in the IS and not in the Clans right now, we won't be seeing any Clan 'mechs until the Clans arrive. Not that they don't exist.

Honestly it sounds like people just keep taking what he's saying out of context.

Anyway not to rain on anyone's parade but the Stone Rhino is unseen anyway, so forget about it now.

finally someone that understands how blunt i am being

[Strum Wealh]

0d1n, on 13 August 2012 - 11:58 PM, said:

Suggesting a future clan mech, the mighty 100 ton Stone Rhino. A Clan assault class mech, the Stone Rhino was available at the beginning of the Clan invasion, putting it easily within reach of the MWO timeline and canon. Previously, this mech was "unseen" but has now been "reseen" and available to the Battetech universe and copyright. I for one think this is an interesting mech and should be implemented into the game, and here is why.

As an assault mech, the Stone Rhino is highly specialized. It cannot mount missiles in its standard configurations. It has an extremely slow turning rate and very little arm traverse, making it suitable for ranged combat only. It fires both of its gauss rifles via its dorsal cannon, meaning they cannot be fired simultaneously.

So what does the Stone Rhino bring to the table? Well it is one of the only assault mechs to mount jump jets. This alone allows it to get into positions the current planned assaults cannot. It has a pretty devastating arsenal; 2 guass rifles, 2 large pulses, and a small pulse laser all give it a monstrous potential for stripping armor at any range. The low profile and mounting of the gauss rifles above the head, and pulse lasers on the same level as the head, mean if you can see it in this mech, you can shoot it. The gauss rifle mounting on the dorsal means you could potentially shoot targets you cannot 100% see as well, though that would certainly be difficult. For an assault, the mech presents a small target with a small torso and short stubby legs. Shooting the gauss rifles or legs out of this thing will be difficult at range to say the least.

The Stone Rhino is not without faults however. The turn speed of this lumbering beast is slow at the best of times, and the torso traverse and traverse speed are not the best either. It accelerates slower than an Atlas, and has slightly less armor. The dorsal gun is the biggest weakness, as it is the only way for the 2 primary weapons to fire. The legs present a large target, and the cockpit of the mech is large relative to its torso. The arms and dorsal gun are spaced apart from the cockpit very far, making fighting anything up close a chore to say the least. The Stone Rhino can fill only one role effectively due to its weapons layout and vulnerabilities and that is to fight at a long range. It's more disadvantaged than the Catapult in close quarters due to its speed, size, and weapon spacing.

So why add the Stone Rhino? While not the most iconic mech, it, to me, is still and interesting one. Besides sporting one of the coolest designs in Battletech in my opinion, it fills a role no assault currently holds; that of a long-range specialist. It's the kind of mech that can reward skilled pilots with a powerful weapons platform but still be countered by smart pilots. It almost requires teamplay, as its a huge asset if kept away from enemy aggressors, and a huge detriment if stuck brawling when it should be sniping. It's a high-risk, high-rewards mech and I feel that those are severely lacking in the current lineup. It has an interesting mix of strengths and weaknesses, and could be a dynamic and skill-driven addition to the current lineup.

From another of the Unseen-related threads:

Turook, on 31 August 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

The only thing that I am curious about, if someone can tell me. why was the Stone rhino redesigned from


To this


The new version looks so bad ....................

The Stone Rhino (IS designation: "Behemoth") is, itself, among the Unseen; it is apparently based on artwork from Victor Musical Industries (now Victor Entertainment), a Japanese company that has produced and distributed anime-related products since the early 1970s.

Also, if one looks at the TRO description and specifications, the BT version has always had twin Gauss Rifles (one in each side-torso), though some descriptions argue that both Gauss Rifles fire through the single dorsal assembly seen in the Unseen artwork.

As with the Marauder and its "gun-over-CT vs gun-in-RT" issue, the Stone Rhino's Reseen artwork, with its actual depiction of double Gauss Rifle barrels, is a much better reflection of the actual BT/MW specifications than the Unseen artwork.

Also, it should be noted that the figurine pictured is of the second variant, the Stone Rhino 2, rather than the primary variant. Here is the associated artwork, from TRO 3055U:


Aside from that, the Stone Rhino is as valuable to the Clans as it is rare, so while they did have them it was rare for them to be seen in any role other than second-line garrison work.
More specifically:

Quote

Bringing awesome firepower, those machines cannot be used effectively by commanders because they cannot afford to lose one. Mainly seen in Clan Smoke Jaguar, only a small number of those beasts have been described. No other Clan appeared to field this design, but because it is a venerable design, other Clans are suspected to possess some, widely spread throughout their toumans.

Only one Clan - one destined for Annihilation - is confirmed to field the 'Mech, and even if others have access to the chassis, they're so valuable that they would never see action on the front lines.

Also, that the Stone Rhino 2 isn't produced until 3061 means that there is exactly one variant (that is, one possible hardpoint layout) of the Stone Rhino (which isn't an OmniMech) available until then.

Finally, if the MWO art team were to use the Reseen visuals as a basis for a MWO version of the Stone Rhino (which, IMO, would likely be the case... assuming, of course, that any of the Unseen would be included in MWO), there is a chance that many of the geometry/planform-related points made by 0d1n in the opening post could be rendered moot.

In conclusion, the Stone Rhino isn't a bad 'Mech, but it's got quite a bit going against it as far as showing up in MWO anytime soon (if ever).

Your thoughts?

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driveandkill, on 31 August 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

What about the Behemoth 2 with its mighty Railgun ;D

The Railgun from MekTek's MekPaks is not a canon weapon in the BT/MW universe; the nearest things are the Light Naval Gauss Rifle (which masses 4500 tons) and the Light Mass Driver (which masses 30,000 tons).

After those are the Heavy Gauss Rifle (available in 3061), the Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle (experimental as of 3065), and the Hyper Assault Gauss Rifle 40 (available in 3068).

And none of those will fit in any BattleMech's Center-Torso...