16 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

For table top mechs with hands and lower arm actuators have an easier time getting up. However, Mechs without Lower arm actuators and hands have a hellish time getting up once they fall over. This however is balanced by the ability flip arms. Mechs with lower arm actuators can't flip arms but have an easier time getting up, mechs without em can flip arms but are likely to flop on the ground. Mechs with hands can get up the easiest and hold melee weapons.


With rear mounted weapons and arm flipping and a penalty for getting up everything is balanced.

This should all be in the game.

[Rhinehart]

Some valid points here. I don't know that we'll see any of it in game, at least at launch. But interesting possibilities.

[Durant Carlyle]

I foresee that if PGI allows 'Mechs to be knocked over, there will be a button to press to automatically get back up. Some 'Mechs may take longer to do so, of course.

As I said in the other rear-weapon thread, any tactical advantage from a rear-facing weapon would be lost because the MechWarrior wouldn't be able to see out the front and rear at the same time. Position-awareness and control would be lost for however long the MechWarrior spent looking rearward.

This wouldn't be a problem when a targeting computer does the aiming for you and you just select the target, but that's not how aiming works in FPS games.

[ManDaisy]

Oooooo Ahhhh .... thats not good. Prepare to feel the burn of half the community for calling MWO a first person shooter. I feel sorry for you. While I dont see it to hard as been a quick key press shoot and review, its 3049, rear view monitors have got to be around. Also controls traditionally never followed the asdw model fps guys are used too, we use a throttle.

Edited by ManDaisy, 02 February 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

lol The burn ... it feels good.

Better pick the times you "shoot and review" carefully, or an enemy 'Mech will crest a hill (or step out from behind a building) in front of you and savage your 'Mech while you're looking at the rear-view screen ... even if it's just for one or two seconds. The enemy may know your 'Mech can do it and simply tempt you with a good target to your rear on purpose.

You can use that ability all you want, but it's not worth it for me.

[Slyck]

Flipping arms has always bothered me. It would work for something mounted on a gimble and moved by motors, but not with the more human bone, joint and muscle system that mechs use. They shouldn't be able to flip their arms anymore then a very flexible human.

Edited by Slyck, 02 February 2012 - 08:42 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Slyck, on 02 February 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Flipping arms has always bothered me. It would work for something mounted on a gimble and moved by motors, but not with the more human bone, joint and muscle system that mechs use. They shouldn't be able to flip their arms anymore then a very flexible human.

BattleTech Magic

[TheRulesLawyer]

Slyck, on 02 February 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Flipping arms has always bothered me. It would work for something mounted on a gimble and moved by motors, but not with the more human bone, joint and muscle system that mechs use. They shouldn't be able to flip their arms anymore then a very flexible human.

Who says they can't use a combination of motor types?

[Slyck]

They could, but I don't think mechwarriors, would like it. One of the big reasons that mechs dominate the battlefield is the minute control, feedback and response provided by the neurohelmet and it only works because similarities between the mechs muscle and those of the mechwarrior. I think putting in a foreign mechnical system would be, to a mechwarrior, like a prosthetic limb. You could do it, but you wouldn't want to.

[Dihm]

Slyck, on 02 February 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Flipping arms has always bothered me. It would work for something mounted on a gimble and moved by motors, but not with the more human bone, joint and muscle system that mechs use. They shouldn't be able to flip their arms anymore then a very flexible human.

"Arms" without the upper/lower arm actuator aren't utilizing myomer muscles, since there'd be no need for it. There's nothing moving except the shoulder joint.

[Philipe von Rohrs]

Now I know it wasn't a feature in the MW/MCmdr series for rear mounting and arm flipping, but the novels state that the 'mechs have a 360° field of vision displayed on a single "widescreen" HUD, allowing targeting of rear opponents without switching displays.
But I can imagine the resulting programming/playing headaches that this could entail.

A difference in getting up between humanoid/hand fitted and bird style mechs would make sense tho (it always amused me to watch a Catapult stand up in MCmdr).

[Kaemon]

360º view (1st person via cockpit monitor) yes, rear mounted anything...no.

Falling down is fine, getting up should not involve a 6 finger command, because I know 2 fingers that will already be in use if someone knocks me down (single button get up is fine, but it should take the mech a bit to re-orient).

If that breaks immersion for you, let me come over and setup the side mounted space heaters to your monitor, so you can be immersed by 85º heat everytime someone aims a flamer in your direction.

[DarkTreader]

Truth. In the books, it was something like a 360* view displayed in 160*, presumably with the largest part of that being the forward view. I think that, with us not having neurohelmets or swanktastic technogear to play with, this might be painful and cause *literal* headaches.

Re: Flip arms: Some mechs actually used this to their advantage. The Rifleman (ref: Gray Noton, Justin Allard) was known for being able to utilize this, I'd assume to allow it to track air assets more easily rather than having to rotate the body. Sometimes, you just need it to punk a Valkyrie, sometimes you need it to walk backwards down a tunnel on Solaris to frag a punk who thinks he's got the drop on you.

[Outlaw2]

ManDaisy, on 02 February 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

For table top mechs with hands and lower arm actuators have an easier time getting up. However, Mechs without Lower arm actuators and hands have a hellish time getting up once they fall over. This however is balanced by the ability flip arms. Mechs with lower arm actuators can't flip arms but have an easier time getting up, mechs without em can flip arms but are likely to flop on the ground. Mechs with hands can get up the easiest and hold melee weapons.


With rear mounted weapons and arm flipping and a penalty for getting up everything is balanced.

This should all be in the game.

I think it should be in the game. There is already doubts about the point of "fists" when there is no melee and you can't pick up anything. This could add a small pratical purpose for them (until melee is added ). More arm actuators on the mech, the faster it gets up, but misses out on arm flippling. Bring variety to mechs = good.

In MW4 arm you could switch to a rear view of your mech. In MWO allow something similar when you arm flip and add a reticle that allsows firing of arm mounted weapons...easy enough.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 06 February 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

I think this should be revisited...maybe make the Advanced Zoom module a true fullscreen 4x (or 4.5x) zoom and have a PIP module for Rearview Camera or something. You'd probably have to program some sort of toggle between frontal aiming and rearview aiming or you'd possibly be shooting friendly mechs accidentally whenever you fired.

[Roland]

I thought only mechs with lower arm actuators could arm flip?

[MasterErrant]

Slyck, on 02 February 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

Flipping arms has always bothered me. It would work for something mounted on a gimble and moved by motors, but not with the more human bone, joint and muscle system that mechs use. They shouldn't be able to flip their arms anymore then a very flexible human.

the point of it is that dome mechs.
Most notably the rifleman and the Jeager have arms that are nothing but guns on a pivot the do not have human typs structures. and as such that have a tiny arc of fire but can flipe to point to the rear. combined with a better torso twist it gives then and effectively 360 dgree field of fire. but they cannot fire straight to either side as a hummanoid mech can

Roland, on 08 May 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

I thought only mechs with lower arm actuators could arm flip?

no it's mechs with only upper and shoulder,