95 replies to this topic

[Gabriel Amarell]

Is anyone else bothered by the directions games are taking lately? I am probably behind the times, but I just read about diablo’s in game auction house. The model involves the buying and selling of virtual commodities for real world money and worse yet, the games creators taking a % of each transaction. I have never played a “free to play” game, and to tell the truth I find the idea less than appealing. If I buy this game (Mechwarrior Online) I am probably going to be paying $60.00 for it, maybe for some of us that isn’t a lot of money, but it’s more than twice what it costs to buy a movie on blue-ray.

I hope for that $60.00 I will have access to all the games features: every mech, every weapon, all the non cosmetic customization options, (for my mech and my pilot, assuming that there is a pilot skill development element of some kind) a reasonable amount of storage space, (for extra mech/pilot equipment, mech chassis ect.) and every game-play mode. (presumably the game will consist of players banding together in groups to face off against rival player groups for control of territory across the game world in addition, head to head Solaris style duels and a campaign mode)

I do not want to fork over $60.00 only to find out that it I have to pay an additional fee to get access to the pilot skill development feature, my favorite mech chassis, my favorite weapons, the storage bay to hold my backup chassis or weapons or any other feature integral to my enjoyment of the game. What I would be willing to pay for is Expansion Packs containing new chassis weapons and quipment, new battlefields, new game features and new story arc’s, (the clan invasion comes to mind, or the Fed-Com civil war) and additional mech or mech part storage space. If would even be willing to pay a “reasonable” monthly subscription fee assuming the developers support the game by developing new content and new features between these expansions. (this is the basic MMO model as most everyone knows)

If I pay my $60.00 and I get it loaded up log in and I find out that I have to pay $5.00 more to “unlock” the feature that allows my pilot to level up, or the ability to store mech parts or the mechs themselves I’ll be returning the game for a refund of my money.

What say you Mechwarrior fans, does the “free to play” strategy put you ill at ease, are you willing to pay $60.00 for a game and then pay an additional fee for weapons, chassis, character development features or mech customization? Do you want compete against opponents who have access to “better” chassis or “better” weapons because they bought them? Assuming the game is all that we hope it will be, would you be willing to pay a $10.00 a month subscription fee assuming the developers are willing to provide regular feature/content updates?

[Alexander Becker]

Just so you know, free to play is FREE to play.
You will not have to pay anything to play the game and have access to all the games content.
The only thing you will have to pay for is to progress faster and cosmetic stuff for you mech.
So free to play is pretty good, monthly subscription would turn me off the game.

[Awesomo 4000]

I like the idea of being able to play a game and not always pay.

You get a bigger player base to play against and loyal customers shouldnt always be forced to pay to play imo.

It can be a very successful model and also it allows more players to try the game fully.

Id compare this game to World of tanks which has been very successful using a free to play model.

[WerewolfX]

Pay 60 bucks pay 60 bucks. It's free to play which means, that A the game won't cost you a thing to download and play free2play is the model that includes WoT, Lol. Navyfield, and many others. The basics are what is being outlined by the devs and they have assured us that they are going mainly the route of LoL which is that you pay for an exp/currency boost or you can buy skins and other Auxiliary items that don't curry favor in-game or a advantage. These guys have done their homework and QQ'ing about "I have to pay 60 bucks to play this game." No you don't that's the glory of it. FREE, if I had spoken those words to EA or Activision I'd be getting escorted out, I'm not too particularlly concerned about it as the game is in good hands and untill they prove me wrong and blatently **** off the community (Which I'm sure they will agree that won't happen. Being fans of BT themselves) I'll continue to do so.
Now then soapbox aside.

I'm quite willing to pay for things outlined in other threads, More Hanger space, Cockpit Skins, Hula Girls, and EXP/Currency boosts along with Paint scheme layouts that allow me to go on the field and have someone recognize me for driving the Green 'Mech with Wolf eyes on the sides of the cockpit or the ability to upload my own decals Those I'd be willing to pay for.

I'm not willing to pay for with ym cash, weapons. I should have access to a Gauss rifle with game currency only not shelling out 5 bucks for something that can blow the arm off a Madcat with little to no heat and a extremely long range at pilot and Mech lvl1.

Customization untill we see details on that I'm not commenting as I don't really know and ignorence is not bliss in this case. Now then onto content updates.

With regular content updates (Which they have said they WILL do) the game keeps the interest, Interest equals player base, player base means profit in one form or another outlined above.

[Tifalia]

The problem with most games these days is that it is not that they are not free-to-play, but rather that the developers entice you into spending your hard earned (real) money on equipment, upgrades, cosmetics etc in-game by adding new features to enhance your over-all stats. And most people are suckered in by that ploy because they do not want to take the extra time in working for those upgrades and also to try and keep an advantage over other players by owning and boasting all of the new upgrades before anyone else.
It is sad that games these days have turned away from the one-time only $50 fork out for game disk and become virtual pirates, but there is very little you can do about it except ruling against playing the game or refusing to pay real money for something that you can earn later on in-game by putting in that little extra effort.

[ShoveI]

The key to this game being successful is like any other online game out there, you gotta keep people playing. Will there be people that won't pay a dime? Sure, it's going to be expected but that constant stream of people playing is what's going to keep the paying customers coming back. No lack of targets!

The way I'm seeing it, with MW:O being a F2P system it puts the burden on the devs to produce a quality product that people will want to spend money on. If you feel they're doing a good job then you're more than likely going to put some money into the game to go towards future enhancements and provide the companies some much needed revenue. If you don't like the game, then it's no loss for you and you can continue with some other game of your choice. I know I will be more than happy to pay up so you can see my firestarters custom painted flaming legs as it crashes through your cockpit on a DFA.

[Naduk]

ok for the Original post and anyone else thinking this game will operate in any similar fashion

THIS GAME WILL BE FREE!

the developers have cited other games like league of legends for this money making model

GO HERE
League of Legends

play it
it dosnt matter if you dont like the game its free give it a try
see how long it takes you to unlock a new champion or two (imagine they are new mechs)
explore the store, have a look at what you can spend real money on or in game currency on

expect extremely similar systems and devices to be in place for MechWarrior

the ONLINE label this game has is not about subscription fees, /dancing, guilds, raids, mass amounts of players or any other such rubbish


THIS GAME IS FREE
if you want to spend $ to show appreciation for the developers or your favorite chassis you can
if your too poor ... dont and nobody will care or say anything about it to you ..... ever

Edited by Naduk, 03 February 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Mchawkeye]

Suggest you read the various FAQs and Blogs kicking around.

you will find out, in more extensive terms, that MWO is Free to Play, unlike WoT which, I am told, it more Play to Win.

They have made it perfectly clear that buying anything will not give you a tactical advantage. there is some discussion about how you define tactical advantage...but essentially, you can grind to any point in the game, no one who pays will get anything tactical that you cannot gain though the grind.

you can get it quicker, i think. and non tactical items might be only available to those will to put up the bucks,...but we shall see...

[Mordhar]

Alexander Becker, on 03 February 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Just so you know, free to play is FREE to play.
You will not have to pay anything to play the game and have access to all the games content.
The only thing you will have to pay for is to progress faster and cosmetic stuff for you mech.
So free to play is pretty good, monthly subscription would turn me off the game.

Technically, you are right. But in reality free-to-play games tend to be much more expensive to play then their pay-to-play counterparts.

When you pay 10-20$/month - it is all you spend on that game. And you can be sure that you have exactly the same abilities/content as other players. Game progress and achievements depends only on your playing skills.
In F-T-P game your can play for free, of course. In this case, you will be nothing more than free exp/frag/whatever for paying players. If you want to compete with them - you need to pay, and pay much more than 10-20$. And if you want to be top player be ready to spend 200-500$/month.

I can afford to pay enough money for free games (ironically, isn’t it?), but it always sad to see when good players constantly loose to much less skilled players, who have more money.

Yes, developers of every new online game ALWAYS promise that this time there will be no “pay-to-win” model. And it ALWAYS turns out not to be truth.

[Sesambrot]

first off, hawkeye:
WoT isn't pay to win!
it actually is one of the most successfull F2P to date for a reason. Yes you can buy certain tanks and equipment that are inavailable to non-paying customers, but even though some of the items are supposed to give you an edge over other players, it's not like they completely break the balance. You're still able to compete with those players even if you haven't spent a single penny on the game.
What is a little troublesome tho is the balance itself, the higher tiers have the problem of their ammo costing so much, and the refire rate being so low that a missed shot doesn't only mean you'll have to wait for half a minute for the next one, but you'll also hardly make any profit, which turns the whole game into a campfest. I've seen matches which ended in a draw even tho it was 3 vs 8, because everyone was too afraid to move.
But that's a problem with the balance not the payment model.

About the F2P model in general, take a look at this:
http://penny-arcade....crotransactions

It's just another opinion on the subject, but many of the big upcoming f2p titles seem to move into this direction. (Firefall, Tribes:Ascend)
And from studying the devblogs over here, I think MWO is going into a similar direction.


Also, I have never heard of any f2p that promised not to sell "power", but then did anyways, if they do, they usually even advertise that!
As mentioned before WoT is a good example of how to be successfull with the model without turning it from f2p into p2w!
I've made bad experiences with "older" f2p titles as well, but seeing how WoT took a big step into the right direction, I'm confident that we'll rather see more of that in the future.
Oh and Mordhar, it is very true that you can spend way more money on a f2p than a boxed game, but assuming that they don't force you to pay in order to compete, it is your very own choice. And if they actually forced you to pay in order to compete, the game is very likely to fail as a whole, and keeping in mind all that Russ, Bryan and all the other Devs have said about the project, I don't think they'd want to let that happen.

PS: watch the vid, it's worth it!

PPS: positive thinking guys, positive thinking...

[Azar]

While World of Tanks is a successful free to play game, you can pay to win in it since it have gold ammo which gives players paying with cash advantages over those who don't. If you want an example of a good free to play game you should look at league of legends, since the only thing you have to pay for with real cash there is skins for the heroes and ip(ingame cash) and xp boosts. It also gets regular balancing patches and new heroes.

[100mile]

If you read the dev blogs they clearly state that there will be options to pay for stuff that you may want...but it will be an option and the same things will be available with the in-game currency and as stated by another, you just have to be willing to do the work...it aint like its free for them to create/maintain this game that we are all eagerly awaiting...they have to have a way to recoup some of the money they are spending...Have a little faith...

[autogyro]

Sesambrot, on 03 February 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

first off, hawkeye:
WoT isn't pay to win!
it actually is one of the most successfull F2P to date for a reason. Yes you can buy certain tanks and equipment that are inavailable to non-paying customers, but even though some of the items are supposed to give you an edge over other players, it's not like they completely break the balance. You're still able to compete with those players even if you haven't spent a single penny on the game.

Even that is not quite accurate as at every given tier level of 'premium' tank (something costing real money) there will be at least 1 tank that you can earn that is better. It's not just that you can compete against real money tanks but that once fully upgraded, you have even better tanks than those you buy with real money.

[Jack Gallows]

Both the free to play and subscription model both work, and free to play can work really well if done right.

A good example is League of Legends. There's two forms of currency in the game, one has to be bought with money (RP), the other is gained by playing (IP). The only things you can buy in game are champions, skins to change how they look, runes, and IP/XP boosts.

The only two things that require RP, which is bought with real money, are skins and IP or XP boosts. Neither of these things give an advantage over your enemy, or are required to play the game. The IP boosts are nice (and if you do buy RP, it's a better conversion rate then buying a champion with IP after an IP boost then buying with RP.) The game is free, but offers tons of things to collect and work towards, and if you don't want to wait on the IP, you have the choice to buy something with RP with real money....but it doesn't make you better then anyone else.

They're also constantly updating with new champions, new skins, new fixes and extra stuff to play with and you never have to spend a dime. So, free to play, as others have said with me, can work extremely well. Free to play does not have to equal play to win.


I've got every bit of faith that MW:O is going to excel the same way as League in terms of how they handle their free to play model. I would though, like them to have a subscription or donation model for us that want to give money to help them out anyway, but I don't want a reward for it

Edited by Jack Gallows, 03 February 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[Spooky]

Mordhar, on 03 February 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

Technically, you are right. But in reality free-to-play games tend to be much more expensive to play then their pay-to-play counterparts.

When you pay 10-20$/month - it is all you spend on that game. And you can be sure that you have exactly the same abilities/content as other players. Game progress and achievements depends only on your playing skills.
In F-T-P game your can play for free, of course. In this case, you will be nothing more than free exp/frag/whatever for paying players. If you want to compete with them - you need to pay, and pay much more than 10-20$. And if you want to be top player be ready to spend 200-500$/month.

I can afford to pay enough money for free games (ironically, isn’t it?), but it always sad to see when good players constantly loose to much less skilled players, who have more money.

Yes, developers of every new online game ALWAYS promise that this time there will be no “pay-to-win” model. And it ALWAYS turns out not to be truth.

Alexander Becker primarily corrected Gabriel Amarell's misconception, that he will have to pay 60 $ for this game, like with any other normal game.


Just to put more emphasis on this:

Gabriel Amarell, on 03 February 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Is anyone else bothered by the directions games are taking lately? I am probably behind the times, but I just read about diablo’s in game auction house. The model involves the buying and selling of virtual commodities for real world money and worse yet, the games creators taking a % of each transaction. I have never played a “free to play” game, and to tell the truth I find the idea less than appealing. If I buy this game (Mechwarrior Online) I am probably going to be paying $60.00 for it, maybe for some of us that isn’t a lot of money, but it’s more than twice what it costs to buy a movie on blue-ray.

I hope for that $60.00 I will have access to all the games features: every mech, every weapon, all the non cosmetic customization options, (for my mech and my pilot, assuming that there is a pilot skill development element of some kind) a reasonable amount of storage space, (for extra mech/pilot equipment, mech chassis ect.) and every game-play mode. (presumably the game will consist of players banding together in groups to face off against rival player groups for control of territory across the game world in addition, head to head Solaris style duels and a campaign mode)

I do not want to fork over $60.00 only to find out that it I have to pay an additional fee to get access to the pilot skill development feature, my favorite mech chassis, my favorite weapons, the storage bay to hold my backup chassis or weapons or any other feature integral to my enjoyment of the game. What I would be willing to pay for is Expansion Packs containing new chassis weapons and quipment, new battlefields, new game features and new story arc’s, (the clan invasion comes to mind, or the Fed-Com civil war) and additional mech or mech part storage space. If would even be willing to pay a “reasonable” monthly subscription fee assuming the developers support the game by developing new content and new features between these expansions. (this is the basic MMO model as most everyone knows)

If I pay my $60.00 and I get it loaded up log in and I find out that I have to pay $5.00 more to “unlock” the feature that allows my pilot to level up, or the ability to store mech parts or the mechs themselves I’ll be returning the game for a refund of my money.

What say you Mechwarrior fans, does the “free to play” strategy put you ill at ease, are you willing to pay $60.00 for a game and then pay an additional fee for weapons, chassis, character development features or mech customization? Do you want compete against opponents who have access to “better” chassis or “better” weapons because they bought them? Assuming the game is all that we hope it will be, would you be willing to pay a $10.00 a month subscription fee assuming the developers are willing to provide regular feature/content updates?

You will not have to pay anything in order to play the game. You will not have to pay $60.00 in order to get the game. You can optionally buy additional stuff within the game for real money, but you will not have to pay anything for the basic application itself.

Edited by Spooky, 03 February 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Ghostrider45]

the Game is free to play not Free how much it will cost to buy I don't know if you won't to know About the game rulest check the Day news it says the polits will get pionts for polit skills like rader, commad skills called polit points then you get C-Bill to buy parts for your mech to upgrade are to buy new mechs you play missions to get these ! don't know if you'll be abel to buy polit pionts are C-bills??

[Mchawkeye]

Sesambrot, on 03 February 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

first off, hawkeye:
WoT isn't pay to win!
it actually is one of the most successfull F2P to date for a reason. Yes you can buy certain tanks and equipment that are inavailable to non-paying customers, but even though some of the items are supposed to give you an edge over other players, it's not like they completely break the balance. You're still able to compete with those players even if you haven't spent a single penny on the game.
What is a little troublesome tho is the balance itself, the higher tiers have the problem of their ammo costing so much, and the refire rate being so low that a missed shot doesn't only mean you'll have to wait for half a minute for the next one, but you'll also hardly make any profit, which turns the whole game into a campfest. I've seen matches which ended in a draw even tho it was 3 vs 8, because everyone was too afraid to move.
But that's a problem with the balance not the payment model.

Interesting. Every other discussion about the payment model for MWO has pointed to WoT as a way to not really do things, becasue you can pay for things that give you a tactical advantage that you cannot gain any other way.
It's not about game balance in this instance...it's about perception. The concept that, in order to get the best mechs or the finest ammo you have to doller up is exactly what they (MWO) are trying to avoid, and exactly what WoT set out to do in the first place.
Play to Win doesn;t exactly mean that you can only win by playing, it simply suggests that buy stumping up hard earned cash, you get better things than those who don't.
Oh, and that's McHawkeye. Hawkeye was a fella in M*A*S*H....

[Nick Makiaveli]

This comes up every game that has any form of cash shop etc.

It is absolutely NO DIFFERENT from any other game. WoW was NOT purely buy and pay sub. You had to buy WoW, pay the sub, and if you wanted all of the content you have to buy the expansions. How is that any different from buying new areas/dungeons/mechs/classes etc etc in any other game?

I'll tell you. If you don't want the new race being offered, but do want the new class, you can choose if it's a F2P but otherwise you have to buy it all for full price.

D3's AH is causing nerdrage all over the place for no reason. Don't want to spend cash? Don't. Do you really care what the other person uses to buy the stuff you are selling? If he gives you cash, then just use it to buy in game stuff or gold. Seriously it's like that credit card commercial with the baby as the only person who doesn't want "more money". Silly and rage just for the sake of raging.

[Roughneck45]

Mordhar, on 03 February 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

Technically, you are right. But in reality free-to-play games tend to be much more expensive to play then their pay-to-play counterparts.

When you pay 10-20$/month - it is all you spend on that game. And you can be sure that you have exactly the same abilities/content as other players. Game progress and achievements depends only on your playing skills.
In F-T-P game your can play for free, of course. In this case, you will be nothing more than free exp/frag/whatever for paying players. If you want to compete with them - you need to pay, and pay much more than 10-20$. And if you want to be top player be ready to spend 200-500$/month.

I can afford to pay enough money for free games (ironically, isn’t it?), but it always sad to see when good players constantly loose to much less skilled players, who have more money.

Yes, developers of every new online game ALWAYS promise that this time there will be no “pay-to-win” model. And it ALWAYS turns out not to be truth.

Ive found quite the opposite, actually. Money does not give you a leg up on the competition in most free to play games, it just eliminates the grind and gives you shiny new skins.

Im not sure what F2P games you are playing. I like to think that the money i spend gives me a "tactical" advantage, but at best its striking fear into the hearts of my enemies, with my shiny new skin

Edited by Roughneck45, 03 February 2012 - 05:57 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Mchawkeye, on 03 February 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

Interesting. Every other discussion about the payment model for MWO has pointed to WoT as a way to not really do things, becasue you can pay for things that give you a tactical advantage that you cannot gain any other way.
It's not about game balance in this instance...it's about perception. The concept that, in order to get the best mechs or the finest ammo you have to doller up is exactly what they (MWO) are trying to avoid, and exactly what WoT set out to do in the first place.
Play to Win doesn;t exactly mean that you can only win by playing, it simply suggests that buy stumping up hard earned cash, you get better things than those who don't.
Oh, and that's McHawkeye. Hawkeye was a fella in M*A*S*H....

i think this is cause you can buy ammunition in WOT with real money that will give you slightly better stats in game. Since ammunition is important in battletech and core to the game, im sure that they would only make it available through in game c-bills to level the playing field.