218 replies to this topic

[Dragon Lady]

Strum Wealh, on 04 February 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

As with ramming vs charging, I would imagine that there is an element of technique to it.

Much like how skydivers and other parachutists eventually learn to execute proper parachute landing falls, there would be some correct vs incorrect technique to executing a "good" DFA attack that relies on controlling the angle and velocity of the attacking 'Mech before the attack hits and the balance afterward such that the attacking 'Mech remains upright and the attack maximizes potential damage to the target 'Mech while also minimizing potential damage to the attacking 'Mech.

Your thoughts?

Since this particular ability requires a module to use, and isn't particular to any mech variant, I imagine that it's more along the line of specialized controls, combined with practice in using them. While the average pilot's only option is to land on a 'Mech as if they were landing on solid ground, a pilot with a DFA module, and the skill to use it, can manipulate their leg actuators to minimalize damage to the legs.

[Harrow]

Pht, on 04 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

[/list]The thinking of how this is rational in relation to the lore I would be very interested to hear...

Otherwise, an interesting article.

Its a piloting skill? You learn how to position your mech to have the best chance at less damage during a DFA maneuver...

[Kobriel]

Good to know so many people love all this role thing - it may bring some new life into the Mechwarrior-Mechcommander universe. However, the way I see it - the game leans toward the well-known addictive tricks met in all MMOGs today: grind and grind and grind and something wonderful will hapen to you... You will, oh, well... specialize! This is kind of a deal breaker for me and I'd like to know - will there be left some full-scale full-featured maps for those who would like to play MW old style? I mean - if I choose not to affiliate myself with any House/Clan or to spend any points on improving my mech or my... 'skills' - I can play, still, indefinitely, those 'general' matches, with other 'non-skilled, non-augmented non-affiliated' players, being able to pilot any mech I want, right? Or not?...

[anglomanii]

Danger Close strikes me more of a commanders last ditch defence option, somthing like calling in a IDFS barrage on your own location.

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A short range radar detection system that lets the command pilot know of any nearby enemy BattleMechs

this would be more akin to a submarine actively pinging on all frequencies... everyone knows where you are but now you know where they are too.

[Imaorange]

Things are definately looking up! This is getting me SO Pysched! You guys are doing a wonderful job!

[xlrate]

statler, on 03 February 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

....all my fears came true, AND hints at no mech lab.....I can't believe somebody ruined another mechwarrior attempt....boo...

magical mech improvements with time played? why? just why? my torso can twist faster because im awsome doesnt make any sense!!! its a machine dammit!

air strikes....yeah, just what 80 tons of a war machine needs...assistance from the gods blowing stuff up....thanks, oh and i can trade optics for it because i couldnt possibly have a radio and a zoom on my optics.

oh yes, and signitures of mechs fading slower....because experience lets my mech see through walls instead of just some weighty equipment,...i dont remember the force being in battletech lore guys ....a mech can track another mech behind stuff or it cant...not just for a little because you have to come up with something to give the kids besides a crazy war machine and real game mechanics....

man...no good monster hunter in the states, horrible fps releases the last few years, mech assault, and now this....why does nobody want my money....

Well, it is alot like having a really nice computer. The computer can do just about anything, it is only limited by your skill in using it. Same thing with the mech, thats how I see it.

Why would you assume that you will be a master of using everything as soon as you "buy" your mechs...

[xlrate]

Elite 1 Cosmetic reward...

[Lima Zulu]

I have a lore concern. Naval Bombardment. Does it mean every bloody mercenary conpany commander will be able to call NAVAL STRIKE?! Naval Strike could only be performed by WarShip - a most powerfull combat-suited jumpship. Most of warships are able to carry shuttles, ASF and other deadly things. And this superior power unit wandering on the orbit, waiting for a puny dozen of mechs? How can it be?!
I've met only one mention of Naval Strikes in novels - somewhere in Twilights of Clans books SLDF warships stroke SmokeJaguar forces in order to assist more than 2 regiments of mechs.
Also, at 3049 there were no warships except Clan ones (which aren't in IS yet) and probably ComGuard ones. ComStar allowed to sell warships' hyperdrives only in 3056!

Look a this warship example and tell me - is this thing gonna follow every high-level mech company commander as a pet?

[BlindProphet]

statler, on 03 February 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

....all my fears came true, AND hints at no mech lab.....I can't believe somebody ruined another mechwarrior attempt....boo...

magical mech improvements with time played? why? just why? my torso can twist faster because im awsome doesnt make any sense!!! its a machine dammit!

Think for a moment. You've just learned to drive... The first time you sit behind the wheel are you able to pull tight turns at high speed with little risk? Are you able to know exactly when to apply the brakes and the accelerator to get optimal performance in a turn? These things are learned skills. These things come with time.

The same is true in a battlemech. Yes the torso can twist so fast...but your first times getting used to it you're not going to be able to fully maximize that ability. It isn't the tech thats getting better per se but you getting more comfterable manipulating the controls, and systems of the mech more efficiently.

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oh yes, and signitures of mechs fading slower....because experience lets my mech see through walls instead of just some weighty equipment,...i dont remember the force being in battletech lore guys ....a mech can track another mech behind stuff or it cant...not just for a little because you have to come up with something to give the kids besides a crazy war machine and real game mechanics....

Again...think for a moment. Think of how radar works. Radar doesn't go through everything. What signals fading slower means is you're tuning your radar better, using it differently, plotting better probably courses ect to track where your enemy is as more and more interferance gets between you and the target. You sit a someone just trained at a sensor station told to interprate data and they're going to be doing alright, but you sit someone with lots of experiance there and they're going to be able to track things much better and more accurately.

If thats not something you can understand I can't help you.

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man...no good monster hunter in the states, horrible fps releases the last few years, mech assault, and now this....why does nobody want my money....

I think it has a lot to do with your attitude honestly. Who would want someone like you ruining their games community?

[BlindProphet]

Pht, on 04 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

[/list]The thinking of how this is rational in relation to the lore I would be very interested to hear...

Otherwise, an interesting article.

Depends on if when you DFA you fall or not. If you end up on your back/front when you DFA someone it could easily represent learning how to fall better so as to protect your systems.

[statler]

blindprophet, on 05 February 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Think for a moment. You've just learned to drive... The first time you sit behind the wheel are you able to pull tight turns at high speed with little risk? Are you able to know exactly when to apply the brakes and the accelerator to get optimal performance in a turn? These things are learned skills. These things come with time.

The same is true in a battlemech. Yes the torso can twist so fast...but your first times getting used to it you're not going to be able to fully maximize that ability. It isn't the tech thats getting better per se but you getting more comfterable manipulating the controls, and systems of the mech more efficiently.




Again...think for a moment. Think of how radar works. Radar doesn't go through everything. What signals fading slower means is you're tuning your radar better, using it differently, plotting better probably courses ect to track where your enemy is as more and more interferance gets between you and the target. You sit a someone just trained at a sensor station told to interprate data and they're going to be doing alright, but you sit someone with lots of experiance there and they're going to be able to track things much better and more accurately.

If thats not something you can understand I can't help you.



I think it has a lot to do with your attitude honestly. Who would want someone like you ruining their games community?

oh i get the premise, i just think it is wrong and at best a big stretch for a contrived system, and others here do also.

rpg elements are ment to replace things that we cannot control, like building contacts in the IS for more access to missions and mech production lines, etc.

but the piloting elements are something that i do control. i will not know how to kick the throttle down to optimize my turn when i first hop in a new mech, but as i play more I will figure that out. I AM THE PILOT! another level of abstraction learning and improving the same things as me is not only unnecessary, it throws my own learning curve off. i dont want to perfect my movements on my choice mech only to have the turning speed suddenly kick up a notch because some other in game :"pilot" is finally getting it. it also adds more imbalance against new players, and we want new players.

what about heat management on jump jets? is my "pilot" re optimizing the cooling system of jump jets better than the factory? is the bettletech lore that the pilot is controlling all the intricacies of pumping coolant around with his/her mind, while doing everything else in the mech? if a simple algorithm can do that now, i think a mech in 3049 can also. all he/we/whoever can do is input a throttle to those jets. i have a heat gauge, and i am managing the throttle input, so there is nothing more to be done.

as far as 'ruining the community'.....ugh man really?..... i am by far not the only one that feels like this, read around a bit.

[mockingfox]

Loving it!

[mockingfox]

It appears there is a lot of controversy on wether talent trees are logical or not. I'm not going 2 rehash all the view points but instead make an example.

Look at the gaming market right now. What are the top 2 pc games, witch one is f2p?

These 2 games are WoW and LoL. Both pull in millions of players, both are extremely popular, both have progression over time and a very well crafted leveling system.

You can argue lore and tech of mechwarrior, but in the end it is a GAME. The developers are going to make it like one, because that's what video game developers do.. They make games. Hopefully ones that are popular, and in today's online market this is popular REALLY POPULAR!

Skill tree all the way, like learning to ride a bike or drive a car.
If you can't accept that... Then I don't know what more can be done.

[BlindProphet]

statler, on 05 February 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

oh i get the premise, i just think it is wrong and at best a big stretch for a contrived system, and others here do also.

rpg elements are ment to replace things that we cannot control, like building contacts in the IS for more access to missions and mech production lines, etc.

but the piloting elements are something that i do control. i will not know how to kick the throttle down to optimize my turn when i first hop in a new mech, but as i play more I will figure that out. I AM THE PILOT! another level of abstraction learning and improving the same things as me is not only unnecessary, it throws my own learning curve off. i dont want to perfect my movements on my choice mech only to have the turning speed suddenly kick up a notch because some other in game :"pilot" is finally getting it. it also adds more imbalance against new players, and we want new players.

So if you're the pilot I assume you've got a neural helm, two sticks, foot pedals ect along with all the switches in the battlemech? Right you don't. You do not have all the things a mech pilot would actually have. So theres a limit. Systems like these represent those elements that you'll never be able to do/master...such as using a neural helm...so yes you can exert a large amount of control via your favorite input methods but said commands would not be as fast as said mech pilot, or as effective as said mech pilot would be because you don't have the interface he does.

As for the gap between established and newbies...-regardless- of the system that gap is going to be there. Does this add onto that? It will to a extent. How large that extent is remains to be seen. How they handle this in matchmaking ect remains to be seen.

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what about heat management on jump jets? is my "pilot" re optimizing the cooling system of jump jets better than the factory? is the bettletech lore that the pilot is controlling all the intricacies of pumping coolant around with his/her mind, while doing everything else in the mech? if a simple algorithm can do that now, i think a mech in 3049 can also. all he/we/whoever can do is input a throttle to those jets. i have a heat gauge, and i am managing the throttle input, so there is nothing more to be done.

as far as 'ruining the community'.....ugh man really?..... i am by far not the only one that feels like this, read around a bit.

Your pilot could easily be better figuring out when best to fire said jump jets in his stride, how best to move to as to get maximum thrust with less heat.

As for you...I've never said you're the only one. Your acidic opinion did catch my eye, along with your "How dare they not make the game just like I want it" attitude. So in repsonse to said attitude I made a smart remark back at you.

Now maybe you haven't noticed the trend in every genre going on right now. Said trend is to have rpg elements. The reason this trend exists is because they've found that doing so keeps players playing and people enjoy getting rewarded for playing. This game is here to make money and to do that you need a game that keeps people playing. RPG elements like this help with that. Compelling gameplay does as well. Neither can stand alone at this point, you need both. If you can not come to terms with this and accept that untill you come up with a far better solution that is easy to implement and keeps as many players, if not more, and that gamers will universally embrace, then multiplayer gaming is no longer for you (and to be frank obviously hasn't been for the past few years).

[statler]

blindprophet, on 05 February 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

So if you're the pilot I assume you've got a neural helm, two sticks, foot pedals ect along with all the switches in the battlemech?

Your pilot could easily be better figuring out when best to fire said jump jets in his stride, how best to move to as to get maximum thrust with less heat.

Now maybe you haven't noticed the trend in every genre going on right now. Said trend is to have rpg elements. The reason this trend exists is because they've found that doing so keeps players playing and people enjoy getting rewarded for playing.

yes i do have all of that except the neural helmet, but regardless you are talking about things that are completely optimized before the pilot ever steps into the mech, neural helmet or not. the mechs stride is what ever it is when i press the button, and how to move is determined by me. so...regardless of what rpg elements you want, jump jet heat should absolutely not be one of them.

an rpg element has always been there in MW games, c-bills alone on a strait merc strategy is a huge rpg element. bring in the real time fluid star system, the politics of the world and your place in the factions....TONS of rpg to keep you immersed, and continually serving peoples' need to advance at games.

as to an rpg element on every part of the game being the way it has to be: a couple games with big budgets hit in times of market vacancy, got the ball rolling on massive players, and the rest have to go where the player base is. every game since has followed every aspect of these couple like bible going for the same market. trying to implement these types of things have killed more games than they have made. the fps market is an easy example of a graveyard of these no lifespan games. its simply been a recent trend, and it doesnt go well with everything.

also...keeping people to come back for the rpg elements is a cheap trick that people will easily jump ship for when new or better gameplay comes out. its the gameplay that really holds them for long periods of time. i can fulfill the advancement need on anything, but i will always want to replay missions on MW2.

Edited by statler, 05 February 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Kobriel]

Right, I mean wrong - the principle is wrong. It may be fun, though. With some background story, something like – look, guys, those who spent a lot of time in battles under various suns got irradiated and some genetic modifications occurred, so now they have 2.5% shorter reaction time when deciding to push some button. Not a huge improvement, really, our gameplay will be far more hindered by the quality of connection, like ping differences, than by those augmentations others got and I, for instance, didn’t. I mean – a ping difference like 50ms compared to 300ms may prove huge, indeed. All in all, the ‘elite’ players, highly specialized, adding 0.5% here to 1% there and 2.5% there and so on, may end by being overall significantly better suited for battle. The ability (or lack of) to call air strikes could be a game changer. As the ability to use 10% longer range sensors will. It’d be nice to have a well thought balance, that would attenuate those critical differences, so eventually it’ll be a matter of numbers, how wisely devised are those going to be.

Even so, the ‘purists’ won’t be satisfied. I included. This is funny, because I’ve never thought of me as a religious person before. However, the FAQ section says that people may associate themselves in guilds, or Merc Corps. A spin here would be fun. I mean – think of it – each House gives you a certain bonus. Why not a Purists Order or Guild, whatever, whose members, whot took some kind of purist wove, won’t be able to take advantage of those ‘artificial augmentations’ in some areas, the pilot skills related ones, but instead will have great and unique painting technology (for instance), available from the beginning to all guild’s members, rookie or not, so, say, they could change the mech’s colour outside the mechlab with a push of a button, making their mechs less visible according to terrain, or be able to have a nice parade at the end of the match, with fantastic colours and flags, you know?... Just an idea... This way, even I would be pleased to play whenever whatever with or against whoever (XP augmented or not in those areas I think of as illogical). And since basically the sense of honour is something the MW players are already accustomed with, the existence of such a guild, with this alternate and fair way to play, for those who don’t like the XP point’s concept, would make sense too. No XP gain, but some other award, to compensate the 'hardship of this path', a unique feature for those who like this kind of challenge, or those who obviously continue to play after years and years, without feeling the need, or even bluntly disliking the whole XP progression thingy. It would be like choosing to play the game on 'harder, because we are good' compared to 'pretty normal, because we are RPG addicts'

[Punisher 1]

Meh, reminds me too much of the grinding in World of Tanks. Reading over this it looks almost exactly the same with having to slog through a bunch of stuff you will only use once.

I hope that this is not the case. While World of Tanks has 70 plus "tanks" you will never use most of them again. Thus making the grinding process harsh and not so fun to climb to a top tier vehicle.

I can understand the reason why MWO might do this but if it turns into a horrid grind fest to a mech that costs too much to run or a pay for play it might not be so appealing to the customer base.

Hopefully this will be looked at and changed as need be.

[BlindProphet]

statler, on 05 February 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

yes i do have all of that except the neural helmet, but regardless you are talking about things that are completely optimized before the pilot ever steps into the mech, neural helmet or not. the mechs stride is what ever it is when i press the button, and how to move is determined by me. so...regardless of what rpg elements you want, jump jet heat should absolutely not be one of them.

If you say so. You have no desire to actually discuss this so I will not argue with you further.

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an rpg element has always been there in MW games, c-bills alone on a strait merc strategy is a huge rpg element. bring in the real time fluid star system, the politics of the world and your place in the factions....TONS of rpg to keep you immersed, and continually serving peoples' need to advance at games.

as to an rpg element on every part of the game being the way it has to be: a couple games with big budgets hit in times of market vacancy, got the ball rolling on massive players, and the rest have to go where the player base is. every game since has followed every aspect of these couple like bible going for the same market. trying to implement these types of things have killed more games than they have made. the fps market is an easy example of a graveyard of these no lifespan games. its simply been a recent trend, and it doesnt go well with everything.

also...keeping people to come back for the rpg elements is a cheap trick that people will easily jump ship for when new or better gameplay comes out. its the gameplay that really holds them for long periods of time. i can fulfill the advancement need on anything, but i will always want to replay missions on MW2.

First, you're not reading for comprehension. Note I said you need BOTH compelling gameplay and rpg elements. Perhapse you can inform me of a game that had compelling gameplay for the masses as well as rpg leveling up/rewards that failed but I can't think of any in recent history. Every recent flop that I can think of has been mostly missing that compelling gameplay element which is by far the most elusive.

RPG elements may be a 'cheap trick' to get people to keep coming back, but its an effective trick that has been shown to keep people playing past the time they might normally stop. Thats what you keep missing here. Despite what you think, giving people something to keep playing for will keep them playing if its a game they already enjoy. You will ofcourse have people who play it regardless of such a system who will always play it. But these are not the majority. They are the minority. You want, however, to intrest and keep that majority of people playing for as long as possible. Giving them something to keep playing for will do that assuming, again, the gameplay is good.

Oh a note on your 'just inventory management and politics' idea there being enough to keep people immersed...you're wrong. If that was all the 'rpg' elements the game employed your playerbase would in short order end up being a subsection of the battletech crowd...new people would occasionaly filter in and out, but its not going to grow much if at all. And you'll end up with a unprofitable game...

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Meh, reminds me too much of the grinding in World of Tanks. Reading over this it looks almost exactly the same with having to slog through a bunch of stuff you will only use once.

I hope that this is not the case. While World of Tanks has 70 plus "tanks" you will never use most of them again. Thus making the grinding process harsh and not so fun to climb to a top tier vehicle.

It seems similar yes, however instead of getting equipment you might use for only a battle or two (many gun upgrades and other upgrades in WOT) you're improving the mech itself overall. And depending on how varriants turn out...and the fact that theres role warfare...you might choose not to play/use a mech anymore but that doesn't mean it won't be played/used for x role.

Same general idea (spending xp on a tree of upgrades) but a totally different gameplay environment

[Vertous]

CHARGING this proves to have some sorts of melee attacks!

[Kenyon Burguess]

the great houses have capital ships. its all thru the lore. so theres no issue of commanders working for a great house being able to call in orbital cannons to bear on an objective for a special occasion. some merc units (like the blue star irregulars) have them too. i highly doubt every unit, every mission is going to have access to all forms of support.