94 replies to this topic

[Chas]

Catamount, on 02 March 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Maybe I could take this position seriously if you could actually offer some kind of supporting argument to show that it has any kind of merit, but since you apparently can't, I can't.


If you actually bothered to spend a few minutes going through some of the discussions we've had here before making wild assumptions about the two -arguably- most active posters on this board, you'd see that the vast majority of the time we do compare based on performance, price, and power consumption, and nothing else.


In this particular thread, the subject of ethics came up, and we addressed it, and you have absolutely no argument against our statements besides "well it's stupid because I say so", which isn't an argument.


So can you come up with an actual counter-argument, to demonstrate that our statements are wrong, or can't you? If you can't, then why not go find something productive to do on these forums?

Ah, the inevitable "shut up" post.


So it's basically "disprove my feelings and opinions" or go away.

Yeah, you're right. There's more productive things I could be doing than heabutting such monoliths.
Because anything I argue, you're simply going to hold your hands to your ears and attempt to shout down.
Seen it before. So It's not like there's anything original in what you're doing.
It's simply my tolerance for such things is much lower now and I have better things to do with my time then suit up and open up full-flamethrower.

Edited by Chas, 02 March 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Catamount]

Chas, on 02 March 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Ah, the inevitable "shut up" post.


So it's basically "disprove my feelings and opinions" or go away.

Yeah, you're right. There's more productive things I could be doing than heabutting such monoliths.

More like either say something of actual value that contributes to the thread or go away.

You've yet to bring up any kind of valid point to back your point of view, at all. So why do as you suggest. If you have something that's actually productive to do here, you might want to see to it.

Edited by Catamount, 02 March 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[Chas]

Catamount, on 02 March 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

More like either say something of actual value that contributes to the thread or go away.

Simply because YOU don't value it doesn't make it valuless. And you're not the arbiter of contribution here.

As for "go away". Uh. You DO realize this is an Internet forum right?

Not that "patent absurdity" should mean anything right?

Quote

You've yet to bring up any kind of valid point to back your point of view, at all.

Correction. I've yet to bring up a valid point that you, in your self-appointed role as arbiter of correctness, are willing accept.

Then again, being told that one's silly behavior and statements make one look like an *** seldom goes down gently.

[Vulpesveritas]

Chas, on 02 March 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Simply because YOU don't value it doesn't make it valuless. And you're not the arbiter of contribution here.

Right... so your point is that you feel that companies should be free to do as they wish to bash other companies and screw over consumers and that nice guys should fold over and that you don't care about having newer technology, higher power efficiency, or lower tempratures, or better price/performance. You just feel that people should buy from the most advertised rather than the best power/performance and price/performance manufacturer at the moment, and anyone who disagrees with you is a fanboy from the other company.

Chas, on 02 March 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Correction. I've yet to bring up a valid point that you, in your self-appointed role as arbiter of correctness, are willing accept.

right, as above if I read you correctly, unless you have any new insights that I've missed.
Oh and hey, I don't think that AMD cares about me as a person. What I do think is that the guys running AMD do think three things; 1. "Hey, maybe if we treat employees and customers more fairly than the competition we can pick up customers." 2. "Hey, maybe if we continuously innovate we can beat the competition who is happy just doing nothing but die shrinks and MOAR TRANSISTORS." 3. "Hey, maybe if we don't bribe game developers we can have more market competition and get people to unknowingly market our products by having continual debates over products in various media centers and therefore we will get more people to buy our product which is superior, even if we don't have advertisement contracts with companies."

Oh, and then too there is that little bit where AMD is winning the market right now in price/performance and powerconsumption/performance over the majority of Nvidea cards.
Just waiting on kepler to see if Nvidea is tossing a bunch of crap around or whether we'll see the Radeon HD 7000 series have a price drop.

So yes, if you have a valid argument with any of this, other than "OMGNICEGUYSFINIISHLASTDURDEDUR" then please, share.

And once again, some people like myself, as well as some businesses will only buy from ethical companies if they have the choice. Which does help AMD.

And if you're saying I don't have a right to my opinion that I feel that people should care more about ethics and business practices, so that we will continue to see technology improvements rather than companies try to just make games work better than someone else's cards, or stick with the same good ol' processor architecture because it has been so great in the past, let's not try something new that might prove to be better in the wrong one, then i'm sorry you forget that I am a sentient being with free will and free thought so if you have a problem with my supporting ethical companies and pointing out the fact to other people in case they may have the same opinion, then I'm sorry you have no understanding of me, or put much value in my choices in morality.

Meanwhile, so apparently Kepler release later this month. Anyone else excited to see what it turns out as?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Catamount is certainly no fan boy for AMD, infact he has openly stated its all about the performance but he does prefer AMD as a company. It's clear Chas you have spent little time reading posts before trying to sound like you know someone and what they are about.

Vulpes a little bit harder to reason with (sorry vulp ) if you cut him open he bleeds AMD colours.

However both always make very good points and will always have the facts to back their arguments so you should at least come prepared if your going to try.

That said let's try to remember this thread is about graphics cards not company ethics or how they get to where they are.

Nvidia has some very good cards out 560TI LE, and certainly the 570 are both standout cards within their performance brackets.
AMD also has some good cards 6950,6970,7950,7970 Im not including the 77 series they are awful whichever way you look at it and nowhere has given them good reviews other than for their power consumption.

And as i have said before quite frankly to the average gamer they do not give one iota for power consumption, they are just after 2 things which really are the same, Price/Performance that leads to a card that means they can play their games on high/ultra with decent frames.

Now in my opinion and that of almost every benchmark for FPS you look at both brands of cards compete nicely, but nvidia comes out on top when you start adding things like AA into the mix, albeit the FPS difference between them is usualy very very minor.

Kepler will be very interesting, and hopefully push some prices down! im actually quite disappointed that AMD as yet has not really reduced the price of the 69 series.
I shall be ordering my new system next week around the 11th, but will be leaving out a GPU and sticking with my 5850BE for the time being and will see what Kepler has to offer failing that hopefully will see some price reductions in either the 570 (im looking at you gainward Phantom) or the 69 series.

Edited by DV^McKenna, 03 March 2012 - 01:38 AM.

[guardiandashi]

I am going to echo [color="#ffa504"]DV^McKenna[/color] and give my perspective

if you are looking at recommending graphics cards (or any other hardware) PLEASE cite your arguemants based on the facts.

vulp has been insisting that the ati 7700 series is great except the reviews he linked explicitly DO NOT MATCH the claims presented.

if you want to say that the 7750 gets better performance in a performance/watt used that does seem to fit the reviews, but the card while it uses an impressively low amount of power, actually has a relatively low performance number, consistantly below a 6750, and in many cases below the 5750. additionally saying well you can always overclock it... well one of the reviewers tried that and bumped up its clock ~10% ... and only got ~1% more performance out of it (if I remember the review numbers correctly)

the nvidia 550 card which is priced comparably, is actually a lower series card in nvidias lineup and in many cases outperformed the card or even spanked it.

if you want to include corporate "ethics" in your justifications on why to buy 1 card over another. I don't actually have an issue with doing so. But you need to cite it as a justification.

if you are just looking at performance (which is what a lot of people ONLY consider) its better to setup a summary table

ie in application X card a gets Xfps card B gets y
card a draws x watts and b needs y

things like that so that the person asking for help can compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, not try to compare apples to pears and oranges to mangos

[Vincent Vascaul]

Wish we had a popcorn emoticon ( As another of the "founding members" of this tech forum I have made my feelings clear on this subject already)

[Morgana]

[Will Hung]

Intel GMA RULEZ!

[bawchicawawa]

If you have a large budget, i really suggest you wait for the higher end kelper's that are coming out this week and match it up with AMD's current GPU's.


Also, facemanpeck, are you trolling with that post? Why would you even try to play bf3 with a 6450, then rack down AMD for your lack of knowledge.

[Burned_Follower]

hey guys here's a question for ya: If i have an intel based motherboard, can i put a video card made by AMD on that motherboard? Based on what i've learned so far when it comes to shopping for video cards i just look at the slots for compatability(what kind of pcie slot it uses).

For example i was thinking about getting THIS video card but THIS OTHER ONE has two fans and a bigger heat sink. If i use THIS motherboard for example, what happens if i put THIS video card in it since it's an AMD video card? The only thing i've been looking at so far when it comes to GPU/Motherboard compatability is what kind of slots that they use. I didn't even consider what happens when you put an AMD GPU on a Intel Mobo until last week.

Also the other thing that is making me want to get THIS video card even though it has 10 less MHz in it's core clock speed than THIS one, THIS one has a huge heat sink system so i was willing to sacrifice the 10mhz for the better heat efficiency. I know it takes up more room but i'm only planning on using one video card. Once i get this new PC i'm building to play MWO on max settings i will never have a need to upgrade it because due to my work schedule one video game(MWO) is all i'm going to have time for if i want to have a life beyond video games. One of the reasons i'm not playing MWLL at the moment is because i got Skyrim and i'm playing that until MWO is released because i know i won't have time for it then. When MWO is released Skyrim can kiss my butt.

Edited by XxDRxDEATHxX, 11 March 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[guardiandashi]

using a single video card all that matters is the interface IE agp, pci, pci express 16 etc
if you want to use multiple video cards then the board support matters IE SLI (nvidia) or crossfire (ati) and some boards support both

[Barbaric Soul]

XxDRxDEATHxX, on 11 March 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

hey guys here's a question for ya: If i have an intel based motherboard, can i put a video card made by AMD on that motherboard? Based on what i've learned so far when it comes to shopping for video cards i just look at the slots for compatability(what kind of pcie slot it uses).

For example i was thinking about getting THIS video card but THIS OTHER ONE has two fans and a bigger heat sink. If i use THIS motherboard for example, what happens if i put THIS video card in it since it's an AMD video card? The only thing i've been looking at so far when it comes to GPU/Motherboard compatability is what kind of slots that they use. I didn't even consider what happens when you put an AMD GPU on a Intel Mobo until last week.

Also the other thing that is making me want to get THIS video card even though it has 10 less MHz in it's core clock speed than THIS one, THIS one has a huge heat sink system so i was willing to sacrifice the 10mhz for the better heat efficiency. I know it takes up more room but i'm only planning on using one video card. Once i get this new PC i'm building to play MWO on max settings i will never have a need to upgrade it because due to my work schedule one video game(MWO) is all i'm going to have time for if i want to have a life beyond video games. One of the reasons i'm not playing MWLL at the moment is because i got Skyrim and i'm playing that until MWO is released because i know i won't have time for it then. When MWO is released Skyrim can kiss my butt.

If your only going to run a single video card, the motherboard chipset does not matter. You can use any single AMD or Nvidia card in any motherboard, so long as they both have the same interface(PCIe, PCI, AGP).

Now if you plan to upgrade later by adding a second video card, you'll need to have a crossfireX for AMD cards or SLI for Nividia cards compatable motherboard. Most modern motherboards with atleast two PCIe slots support both crossfireX and SLI.

[Vulpesveritas]

Yeah the video cards are compatible no matter what so long as you have the correct interface. So yeah.
Also, go with the ASUS Direct CU II, you'll have more overclocking headroom with it.

[Vincent Vascaul]

The MSI's have been overclocking better than most 7970's over on HWbot but the Asus is going to be quieter, basicly if you never plan to watercool your video card get the asus if you think you might get the MSI. You can go wrong with either but they only make water blocks for reference design cards.

Edit: Not always the case Vulp , most of my best overclocking cards have been reference designs, sure the asus might run cooler at a lower decibal level but if your really pushing a card nothing other than liquid really beats cranking a factory fan up to 80% sure it sounds like a jet engine but if your benchmarking it really gets the job done.

Edited by Vincent Vascaul, 11 March 2012 - 09:15 AM.