85 replies to this topic

[SakuranoSenshi]

P.S. You've been very polite, which is refreshing (sadly), noticed (duh!) and appreciated. Thanks. :-)

[Thellorms Norfein]

Well Howdy, and welcome to Texas! Hope your settling in well. I don't know if it's been answered already but what part of Texas roundabout are you in (i.e. Houston area, Northwest Texas, etc.)? I was born and raised in Conroe, Texas but reside in Tyler, Texas now. It's interesting to hear someone from the UK immigrating here, not too sure that happens often, but the reasoning is sound. Most from UK I speak to online often redicule the states for our way of doing things (most of which, I can't say that I blame them) but like anywhere you go, it has it's goods and it's bads. There's a beauty to be found in the state of Texas if you just look around that's hard to found in other places. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains in the west states, the Smoky Mountains in the east states, lived near the great Lake Michigan in the north, but there's just something about East Texas that can never be replaced.

My wife was born and raised in the state of Washington, is an artist, and is a huge follower of european custom, one of those 'proper' ladies if you get my drift. For years now I've been hearing on and off about moving to Europe, so whos knows... maybe one day I'll be in your shoes, in reverse. XD My fathers side of the family hails from England and has quite the rich history there, so in a way it'd be like going to the home I never knew. Anyways, again, welcome to the states and more specifically Texas! If your anywhere near Tyler, Texas, feel free to hit me up if you ever need anything (legal).

[SakuranoSenshi]

Hi Thell (the full version seems a but unwieldy :-P )!

Aye, pretty well; next week will be a year of residency for me and around Hallowe'en (Bonfire Night, in fact) is my (first) wedding anniversary so I seem to have done alright, so far. I have to say the time has just flashed past, really, with one major deadline or event after another (legally immigrating is a very expensive and bureaucratic process), next year should be a lot more relaxed although I am actually working now (start monday, contracts were signed a couple of days ago) so that will probably make seem just as quick. We will see.

My location is right there in my tag *grin* but I'll answer anyway; we're in San Antonio and regularly visit Austin (in fact I will be driving up in a couple of hours). For a while we were south and east of SA, in La Vernia, because my wife's parents have a house and some land there but the commute was a long one for her and we always intended to get our own place once we had paperwork in order and so on (I needed to give an address here and she actually left New York as we were filing paperwork, so her parents' was the only real choice).

I have to head out to pick up my wife from work, now, so I'll leave this here but I'll probably come back and finish responding later.

Edit:

If by here you mean Texas, there's quite a few I have met, through no special effort on my part, just in San Antonio and I happen to know that I have distant cousins here somewhere, too. Overall for the USA, immigration from UK is very common, of course. Texas's size probably helps to hide how much actually occurs, I think. East Texas, with all due respect, is low on my list of places to go ;-) I actually prefer "The Southwest" as exemplified by southern California (talking the geography there, more than the culture), southern Arizona, New Mexico and west and southern Texas. Even within those there is a lot of variation, of course but my geographer friends tell me the climate is broadly similar across that swathe of land and the culture was very much "Old West" in all of them, at one time. If I were to go north, I think I'd like to be in Montana, just for the raw beauty of the landscape and a nice change in temperature extremes :-P

My wife was born and grew up in San Antonio, then moved to Austin for university before spreading wings a bit and living in Colorado for a good while and a few other states for various periods, I believe. New York was for law school but in the end she didn't really get on with living in NYC and shortly after we decided to marry, we agreed that moving back home was a good plan; I didn't want to stay in NYC beyond her schooling anyway. In this great state, near is very relative... but I think Tyler is a bit of a trek for us! That said, we have friends here in SA and Austin who have family and other links back in "DaFWA" so, who knows? Likewise, for yourself, obviously, though if you need a bed it'd be the couch right now :-)

Edited by SakuranoSenshi, 21 September 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[Kobura]

Pennsylvania's licensing processis even simpler:

Apply, pay ...$30? Wait maximum of 30 days, don't fail the background/criminal/psychological testing

Receive license in the mail

[MegaMasher]

SakuranoSenshi, on 21 September 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

1. Well, with number one, you have a point, it wouldn't be the first time an agency has enforced an interpretation of law that is simply wrong and I don't think there's anything gained by going over the same stuff again, sadly it's not as if either of us can change this stupidity whichever way it's actually written in law.

2. Number three, nope, apparently not but you're right I don't see it in the Brady Act (which is where I thought it was) and I don't really care quite enough to try and search it down (you know, I am sure, what a nightmare it is attempting that without the kind of electronic access and tools a lawyer has - I have friends and I might bug one but whatever) and casual searching hasn't turned up the actual text. As I said, without even thinking about it, my two US citizen friends, who'd been abroad with no residence owned here, returned and some weeks afterwards both tried to purchase firearms and were delayed and then refused with the explicit reason of their non-residency in the previous ninety days being given. Now, you may very well be right that it's a misapplication of the law (which neither of us can find for either position, unless you have found text in law outlining the 90 days explicitly for aliens) but I don't think so and in practice it doesn't matter because even if you would be successful against the ATF (or whatever name they want to use this week) it would likely be more than the rest of the 90 days you need to do so. This is what happened with my friends; they were annoyed and waited it out, in one case the FFL was generous enough to simply set the firearm aside (for legal purposes, he took no money and simply "chose to withdraw from sale" the firearm until it so happened that the time was up and my friend returned to fill out another 4473) for him, then ran the sale weeks later.

3. Anyway, I think we have we exhausted that one, unless you do find the text of the law which settles it either way, in which case I'll be just as pleased, actually, knowledge is its own reward and I am not so proud as to be unable to admit my error if I can be shown it. FAQ doesn't count, I am afraid, you must know as well as I do how many times the ATF has been wrong, changed its mind or simply given out incorrect information that is contrary to their own policies. The mass of federal law and administrative regulations that have force of law is currently so large that even the federal government itself doesn't know many there are and occasionally breaks its own laws through ignorance.

Numbers added for ease of response.

1. While I loathe the ATF, it actually isn't them applying this rule. FFLs are private individuals, FFL stands for Federal Firearms License. There are multiple different types, depending upon the purpose. A dealer FFL has a lot to lose if his license is yanked because he makes a mistake, and they tend to be defensive. I have heard of cases where dealers had their own personal policy which is entirely a CYA measure. For a dealer, risking the loss of a sale and the $30 or so of profit from you is by far outweighed by the potential legal issues from a mistake. This becomes especially true at larger stores that hire employees. I was once told (seriously) it was a federal felony to buy a firearm (any firearm) and ammo at the same time. He was less than amused when I told him to pull the other one. I however do not blame them, the way the federal law is worded is that it is a crime for a dealer to transfer if "the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe".

2. Actually, searching laws is rather easy. Remember that ATF FAQ? It has a citation of the exact section of law. Also, when you state that niether of us can find it, you need to remember: In American law, unless something is specifically prohibited it is legal. I forget the exact legal term, but in essence, if there is no law against it, you can do it. As such, if you say the law restricts, you need to know the law. However, to help you out, here is the section of Federal law on firearms. As a courtesy, I will save you the searching, the law you think exists is not there, but it will be good practice for how to read our laws. They are a PITA at first, but with a small amount of practice it becomes easy to actually read the law, and know what is actually legal.

http://www.law.corne...rt-I/chapter-44

922( b )(3) is the pertinent section. The ATF FAQ pretty much quoted the law on the FAQ.

3. In this instance, as I said the ATF was quoting the law rather directly (not the norm, so don't always assume they do this). You are however sadly correct that the ATF changes its mind on opinions and the FedGov breaks laws casually. I still remember when an ATF clown laid out conditions when a SHOELACE was a machine gun. Opinions are worthless. In this case, they weren't making up an opinion out of whole cloth though.

(By the way, I was serious about the ATF declaring a shoestring a machine gun.)
http://www.google.co...29,r:0,s:0,i:73

Edit: Oh, by the way, it took me less than a minute to find the section of USC we needed to look at. The laws ARE written in a complicated fashion, but they are not indiscernable.

Edited by MegaMasher, 21 September 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Hmm, my searching was apparently crap because any time I tried I wound up with portals that required a login or very hard to navigate interfaces that didn't interactively display and search the law, that link is excellent. It does indeed seem like the ATF is/was just making that **** up, then, because it certainly happened (I've met the two people in person) and like you I can see no grounds at all for it in that law, nor find any evidence of another law that would or should apply. No matter, I'm good for the forseeable future and I passed my background last time, so no reason I shouldn't again, which is all that matters to me right now.

I just finally secured a fulltime, permanent position, as well, so pretty pleased. As for the ATF and their stupidity, nothing would surprise me, not even that shoelace story.