74 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Okay...

Taking into consideration PGI has indicated that there will definitely be urban as well as jungle / forested environments with the intent of not only giving us varied environments but also to minimize the dreaded "circle of death" and sniping...

All this being said, taking into consideration the close quarters these environments potentially may present... Is it unreasonable to ask / expect our Mechs to be able to side-step?

Mind you I'm not talking about FPS'esk strafing... More along the lines of a lateral shuffle no more speedy or agile than the commensurate mass and size of the maneuvering Mech would allow...

Clearly canon eludes to the fact that these Mechs are a bit more nimble than all previous MW games would lead us to believe... With that, surely a lateral shuffle should not be considered outside the realm of possibility?

From a functional maneuvering and a tactical standpoint, being able to side-step creates scenarios where a Mech pilot uses surrounding buildings, terrain and or covering foliage as cover, only to step out from behind something, survey the situation and or to step out and take a shot...

Thoughts?

[Psydotek]

I had a thread about this a while back. I totally want to see side stepping. No huge movement, just enough to pop out of cover to fire off a shot or look down an alleyway you're guarding. Would be alot easier than having to torso twist then bump the throttle then hit reverse...

[SilentObserver]

You could perform the manuver faster with a 90 degree torso twist and forward/reversing.

Mechs should definitely be able to turn in place if you zero the throttle. Don't know how i feel about lateral movement. That was usually reserved for quads.

[VYCanis]

SilentObserver, on 06 February 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

You could perform the manuver faster with a 90 degree torso twist and forward/reversing.

Mechs should definitely be able to turn in place if you zero the throttle. Don't know how i feel about lateral movement. That was usually reserved for quads.

not necessarily, as it takes time to twist and time to accelerate, decelerate, and hit reverse just to pop around a corner and pop back.

and quads allowed you full speed strafing IIRC, and there might've been advanced rules somewhere for biped mechs being able to sidestep at like half walking speed or something.

I'd totally love to see sidestepping. Up to now, mechs have driven like straight up tanks or boats, rather than actual bipedal machines. If it can take a 100+ meter fall, right itself from a slip, maneuver over rough terrain, kick, walk parallel to an incline, and so on, it stands to reason it should have the flexibility required to step to the left or right anyhow.

Edited by VYCanis, 06 February 2012 - 10:25 PM.

[DaZur]

SilentObserver, on 06 February 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

You could perform the manuver faster with a 90 degree torso twist and forward/reversing.

Mechs should definitely be able to turn in place if you zero the throttle. Don't know how i feel about lateral movement. That was usually reserved for quads.

I thought about that... and admittedly I've performed this maneuver in the existing MW games. To me it felt unnatural and a maneuver done out of necessity do to game limitations... Not only that, the lag between accelerating, coming to a stop and reversing... quite honestly exposed me and a lot of my Mech unnecessarily to a lot of nasty things...

Sorry if this horse was beaten previously... I did search (I SWEAR!) and didn't see anything along this lines...

Edited by DaZur, 06 February 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[Pht]

'Mechs are capable of sidestepping; but green pilots have a hard time doing it. The foot pedal controls in a 'Mech have some extended movement modes that they are capable of.

Some people may have a stroke to see someone post this, but 'Mechs can even skip ... in the hands of a supremely capable pilot. Which is not the same as saying they're gundam style gymnast mechs.

Edited by Pht, 06 February 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[geck0 icaza]

Module options for nimbler mechs could be fun. I mean allowing all mechs to do it but scouts/Assault roles get mods for doing faster/better. Just an idea.

[VYCanis]

geck0 icaza, on 07 February 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Module options for nimbler mechs could be fun. I mean allowing all mechs to do it but scouts/Assault roles get mods for doing faster/better. Just an idea.

that is a good idea

could account for other advanced movements too probably, Like faster than normal about faces ala the raven in the mechcommander intro

[Dataman]

with bipeds mech? it's hard thing to develop

[VYCanis]

okay just found one set of rules for lateral shifting, aka sidestepping.

quadmechs can lateral shift for 2mp for every hex aka max of half speed.
For that same effect, a biped has to burn 3mp for every hex, aka max of 1/3rd speed.

so something like an atlas can step to the right or left at a leisurely 18kph
a jenner at 39.6kph

seems fair to me, and a far cry from anime-esque acrobatics

Edited by VYCanis, 07 February 2012 - 02:49 AM.

[Stormeris]

This is why we need quads , they could definetely sidestep imo, but maybe they could be slightly restricted to torso movement, for bipeds viseversa restricted sidesteping, more torso movement, BALANCE D:

Edited by stormeris, 07 February 2012 - 03:13 AM.

[Iron Horse]

I like this idea, but I could totally see a rookie pilot trying to sidestep at a full run and ending up eating a dirt sandwich. That would make my day!

In the original MW reboot trailer you can see the main pilot's 'mech sidestep a bit to duck behind some cover (an office building in this case), and this seems like a natural movement in context. I've used the torso-twist sidestep before, and it does seem to take too long to be useful (you have to twist the legs while keeping the the sights and upper torso trained, then the reverse speed and turnaround times would both cost you valuable seconds. There could always be some better techniques to use that I didn't figure out how to use though.

[DaZur]

I'm digging the flow of thoughts in this discussion...

I like the idea of linking side-stepping to the skill tree. As eluded to earlier, it's an advanced maneuver not all Mech pilots have mastery of... (I like the idea of not disabling it for green pilots but making it extremely likely to fall on your arse if you do not have the requisite skill development to execute it!)

It fits perfectly into the module / XP stuff and benefits a Mech pilot that does the grind to gain the skill-set.

Edited by DaZur, 07 February 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[Mechteric]

It would be very hard to figure out how to sidestep using a classic joystick/throttle type of simulation since you run out of axis to map to that extra dimension of movement. But since you have torso twisting you essentially already have side stepping. Here's how it works:

1) turn torso 90 degrees to the right or left
2) increase throttle
3) hey look, you're moving in one direction and shooting in another

[Ranger207]

First, like Capper said, how would you actually do it? I don't like the idea of a switch. If you lag and the game misses you pressing the button, bad things can happen. Second, in the 2009 trailer, that Warhammer did sidestep, implying that the devs are/have been thinking about this.

Edited by Ranger207, 07 February 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[Liam]

Fast double click on turn key (A or D). Similar to Unreal tournament ... + Adjustable delay, which is required for sidestep.
In case of Stick per combination: pull into turn direction and click hotkey for side step (toggle key)

Steel battalion was slide like, this would be to much. Nothing special, but a simple side step would be nice!

Edited by Liam, 08 February 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[Ranger207]

Yeah, but my HOTAS setup isn't really conductive to reaching to one of those tiny squares on the keyboard in the middle of the confusion that is combat.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Everyone seems to be assuming that toso's twist 90 degrees, why?

[DaZur]

Little clarification...

I'm not envisioning this as an "at-speed" maneuver... I see it more along the lines of [[Cannot be executed if > 1/3 max-speed]] This would avoid the whole FPS'esk circle-strafing possibility, automatically invoke an arbitrary speed penalty and limit it's potential usage to cover/uncover maneuvers in one cheesy enchilada...

While I like having everything on my joystick, I see no reason why this maneuver like so many other cockpit functions could not exist in the keyboard mapping realm if a user lacks the mapping /macro ability on their J-stick....

[Elizander]

I actually agree with this post. What's the point of having legs if you still have to move like a tank on treads? I know the previous games kind of set a standard where mechs are incapable of side stepping but this kind of change would be nice and it would make it more believable that we're piloting a huge battle machine with legs instead of a very impractical tank design. I don't know if they can make it happen though, but adding strafe buttons don't appear to be too hard.