7 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

Right now most assaults cannot benefit from the upgrade options. Both ES and FF are really not viable for large mechs as you eat up too much critical space. Depending on your equipment setup DHS may or may not increase your heat efficiency.

As such I would ask that you please look into scaling the DHS for larger mechs. Lights and mediums run too cool with 2.0 DHS and it really isn't fair to have a system where large mechs can't get upgrades but little mechs can. As such I feel we need different strength heat sinks for different weight mechs.

Under the current implementation I would suggest that external heat sink value be based on mech size. Keep lights at 1.4 but as you move up one weight class increase the heat sink value by 0.2 and see what happens. This would result in assaults having 2.0 heatsinks (but remember everything beyond a light would also benefit as well).

In the patch before DHS became 1.4 I saw an amazing thing..... people were actually using LPL, ER PPC and ERLL. By contrast generally you just see people boat medium lasers because it is the only thing that works.

[Elder Thorn]

it's a long time ago that i have seen medium laser boats tbh.
I think everything is where it should be, at least according to those upgrades, i think ES and FF were never meant for assaults

[Glythe]

ES and FF were never meant for assaults..... 2.0 DHS were meant for assaults but we aren't getting them and as such DHS are not meant for assaults either.

The medium laser trumps the LPL, MPL, and SPL. The SL still has a place for when you are arming a light or need low weight point defense weapons.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Um... yeah. I use endo on pretty much all of my mechs. And I usually use DHS as well. This includes Atlas, Stalker, and Awesome. I built the weapons around endo, because it helps me save at least 4 tons on the mech. And I usually don't need much of those critical spaces. See, if you're using an XL engine on an assault, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Just thought I'd get that out there. Anyways, if you put a standard 250 or higher in an assault mech, and only use the DHS in the engine, you take up no more tonnage than you would without DHS, and you get a better heat efficiency. I do think that LPL is underused, the MPL is common though, while the SPL is practically useless. As for endo... *shrug*. I just make it work.

You want an example of DHS + Endo in an assault? Stalker. The 5S, 4N, and 3F can all take 6 LL, endo, DHS, AMS (w/ 1 ton), and a standard 300 + 2 internal heatsinks and another 7 external. And you still only get a heat efficiency of 1.01 -- but guess what: it works. If I had 19x 2.0 heatsinks on it, I think I'd have an unfair advantage. As it is, I do tend to overheat, but I manage it very carefully. With a heat efficiency of literally double the normal.... I can see how that might be an issue. It would make energy-only builds basically the go-to builds for grinding when Repair & Rearm comes back, and nobody wants to spend all their time grinding in the same type of mech. Some people wanna grind in laser boats, other wanna do it in missile boats. (Personally, I prefer laser -- damage is focused -- but I do love murdering people with 70 LRMs at once. It's hilarious.)

Even my atlas has DHS. I just make it so that I don't need more than the number of heatsinks I can fit in the engine. If I absolutely need more, I try to only use 1 external at most. Any more than that, and I usually run into a problem.

*EDIT*
Oh, forgot to mention my take on FF.
Okay, before the patch that removed Repair & Rearm, FF was useless on just about everything, if only because it was prohibitively expensive. At ~2x the cost of standard armor, that was pretty nasty. Now, however, because you don't need to pay to repair, it's worth it for smaller mechs. I'd say it's usefulness almost completely tops out at Cicada level. If you're trying to put FF on something larger than that, you better have A LOT of free space. I have it on one of my catapults, and that's just because I had already used up the tonnage, but not the crits. That's the only mech larger than a light I have it on, and I took a very careful look at how much space I had before I did it. Fortunately, I don't anticipate changing the build anytime soon, and it gave me enough tonnage to add a bit more armor.

So yeah. FF is useless on assaults. And most heavies. And most mediums. Great for lights though.

Edited by Spirit of the Wolf, 28 December 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

Glythe, on 28 December 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

ES and FF were never meant for assaults..... 2.0 DHS were meant for assaults but we aren't getting them and as such DHS are not meant for assaults either.

The medium laser trumps the LPL, MPL, and SPL. The SL still has a place for when you are arming a light or need low weight point defense weapons.

i use DHS on pretty much every assault i currently use, no problems at all.

[Glythe]

Elder Thorn, on 28 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

i use DHS on pretty much every assault i currently use, no problems at all.

Some builds benefit from DHS but many of the assault weapons do not. You are supposed to load big heavy weapons right? Well it turns out that those big weapons require more slots than smaller weapons.

Endo on an Atlas is a waste unless you are building a missile boat. All that critical space could be used for heat sinks.


By comparison look at light mechs. Endo, FF and DHS are always an upgrade for every light chassis AND most mediums as well. That's just not a fair system.

Spirit of the Wolf, on 28 December 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

I do think that LPL is underused, the MPL is common though, while the SPL is practically useless. As for endo... *shrug*. I just make it work.

The LPL is the 3rd worst weapon in the game (looking only at statistics) after flamers and MG although it is probably the worst weapon when you consider heat/damage/weight ratio/critical slot allowance.

Edited by Glythe, 01 January 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

There are times I would rather see PGIGP up the DHS efficiency rather than mucking with the weapon heat points. I realize there is a fine line between all the different balancing points. However, by bringing DHS truly to 2.0, there would be less complaining and PGIGP could then balance by adjusting individual weapon heat generation.

Of course, complainers are going to complain and whiners are going to whine. PGIGP cannot make everybody 100% happy 100% of the time. I'm sure even this idea would cause all sorts of threads complaining about how a favorite weapon got nerfed.

Some of us are going to just have to deal with the idea that valid builds in CBT may just not be valid for a real-time FPS...

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 01 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

Glythe, on 01 January 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Some builds benefit from DHS but many of the assault weapons do not. You are supposed to load big heavy weapons right? Well it turns out that those big weapons require more slots than smaller weapons.

that's correct, but still a DHS sinks more heat for 1 ton that a SHS, and when i manage to have all slots used and exaclty 100% tonnage, i wouldn't be able to put more SHS's into it anyway.

edit: given we are not talking about 15 extra heat sinks or something like that

Edited by Elder Thorn, 01 January 2013 - 10:49 AM.