103 replies to this topic

[Solis Obscuri]

pbiggz, on 31 October 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

Contrary to popular belief, the clan elemental armor, and it's pilot, the genetically modified elemental soldier, were incredibly dangerous in the lore. A point (5) of elementals could easily disable or destroy most mechs that met. In this respect, as of yet, we have yet to experience a good rendition of the elemental armor.

Battle armor sucks. The clan "Elemental" was about the most obscene example of the power of Clan McGuffining, where somehow they could shoehorn over 1.5 tons of weapons, as well as jumpjets, enough armor to stop not only anti-personel weapons but also some anti-armor weapons, as well as (presumably) some kind of reactor to power all that ****, plus the heat sinks required for the reactor, weapons, and jump jets, all into a chassis that weighed... 1 ton.

And then jam some kind of eight-ten foot tall genetically engineered Clan blahblahblah in there, and you have a one ton unit with the offensive capabilities of a Wasp LAM, the superior size and strength to charge in and tear infantry, 'mech armor, and even 'mech warriors in the armored cockpits apart with their battle claws, and yet were also such small targets that they fit in a 'mech's single hand and are tiny elusive targets and can swarm over a 'mech and tear the mechwarrior from his/her cockpit without being observed.

It's enough to make your head hurt before trying to figure out how that many criticals worth of weapons, equipment, jump jets, heat sinks, armor, ammo, exo-skeletal structure, and the assumed reactor engine all into a space the size of a 'mech's one crit hand reactor...

CapperDeluxe, on 07 February 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

It could be interesting to see calling in a star of AI elementals as a commander type ability once the clans invade, perhaps since clans wouldn't be the type to use artillery so they get that instead. Like the attack dogs from Call of Duty World at War only they don't kill you in one hit

No, just like the attack dogs - they jump up and one shot you, but can take about three MG rounds to the face without dropping.

easy0n, on 31 October 2011 - 04:52 PM, said:

Battle armor can be outfitted with Artillary and mine laying weapons also. This makes them an even bigger asset seeing as they can setup/breakdown quickly and be out of an area before they are in any real danger.

Yeah, great, might as well jam a Thumper and a Arrow IV on there too while you're at it...

ranik ortega, on 31 October 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yes to BA. And for that matter tanks and aerospace.

Tanks and aerospace would at least have some potential for balance, I don't see much with Clan Elementals that can grapple. Frankly, even NPC infantry would be better - they could be a serious threat to 'mechs, but that was generally one lance (or less) of 'mechs under attack by a full battalion of light infantry.

[RoninV3]

The addition of Battlearmor to the game will be great once they get a good balance to the gameplay. However, remember one BA/Elemental is NOT the equivelant of a mech. They do not have the endurance firepower, and speed of a mech to think that is to not understand modern war. An infantryman may have a missle that CAN take out a tank but they CANNOT survive on the battlefield for long. You must work as a team and that is how BA/Elementals can be effective on the field. Another element of a modern battlefield.

[Hound]

Since they are not supposed to be around during this time period. No.

[Zervziel]

Humorously enough, despite how many people bash MA2 for it's flaws, they so very willingly ignore it's good parts. I find it fun to play if I just want to turn my brain off and blow crap up. Lore-wise, I loath it for the infinitely stupid mech jacking. However of any game to date, because of said stupid mech-jacking, people in mech were freaking paranoid of battle armors. Of any of the games to date, it's the only one were battle armor were truly nasty up close. Just imagine them ripping off armor and putting in explosives instead of jacking whenever they latched on.

As for people saying no outright, I say give it a chance. I don't think we need to be able to use them personally, but I'd like to see a unit of them act as support.

Also why do people keep saying the Clans are next year? First contact was in August 3049 aka this year and the devs have been really mum about them. I'd be willing to bet money the Clan Invasion is going to either be a launch or near launch event to hook people in.

Edited by Zervziel, 07 February 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Kasiagora]

I didn't play MA2, but I enjoyed MA1 for a little while. I'm expecting, though, to see something like MW2:Mercs had where the clans creep in after a few months. You'll start getting newsfeeds about mysterious things happening near the periphery and reports of "crazy mech pilots" witnessing weird looking mechs doing impossible feats. Then you'll start getting assigned out there without being told why... This is all of the things I like about the Clans with none of the stuff I hate about them; like listening to their elitist banter or getting raped by them.

I think that the Inner Sphere should get armed platoons of mech-hunting infantry as a computer controlled bonus. Tanks, maybe the occasional aerospace strafing run, and artillery? Well, maybe artillery. We've got Catapults and Archers for that sort of thing already.
When the Clans come in they could get a star of elementals as a balance to the platoon of infantry, much more air-support since they like it so much and have a very large part of their society dedicated specifically to it, and instead of artillery the occasional orbital strike (but I'm thinking a low-to-med damage wide spread thing). No one shot kills though, just something to soften the targets. And keep bonuses to flamer/mg weapons used against infantry and even apply it to elementals; bonus on autocanons or dumb-fire missiles against AI fliers (LRMs always had trouble tracking anything that fast in the old games); it would help keep variety in player mechs' load-outs.

Now moving on to player battlesuits, I heard something a long time ago that Omnimechs had battle armor that the pilot would eject into if his mech was about to get destroyed? I don't know if there really was anything like this or if it's just some BS a friend made up and it stuck in my mind. I was thinking for a moment that an option like that wouldn't be bad later on down the timeline, like that last stand thing in FPSers. You don't have crap going for you but you can still harass the guy that took you out for a moment before he completely smokes you again as a final flipping of the bird at him. Maybe even without battle armor, when you eject you get a Sunbeam man-portable small laser. Only problem is if the guy walks away it could be frustrating trying to get into or away from the action. Especially if the game has a hardcore mode where when you die you need to start again from scratch, you'd want to eject and live, but it would suck trying to run your butt to safety while some guy's gunning at you for the sake of trolling.

Edited by Kasiagora, 07 February 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[VYCanis]

the only canonical cases of pilots ejecting as battlearmor troops are the M.D. troops using direct neural interfaces during the word of Blake Jihad waaaaaaaaaayy later in the timeline. and the suits themselves weren't very good as BA. Just gave ejected pilots higher odds of getting away and killing infantry.

what you might be thinking of is that omnimechs allowed for battlearmor to ride on the exterior to ferry them into battle.

[Lima Zulu]

VYCanis, on 07 February 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

what you might be thinking of is that omnimechs allowed for battlearmor to ride on the exterior to ferry them into battle.

Active armor!

[Kasiagora]

Canis,
My group of friends never played later than 3055 so it must have been a big misunderstanding on the ferrying on our part. I thought it might have been since we were pretty young at the time (we played by a pretty simplified version of the rules not even taking arm-arcs into account most of the time although we kept track of heat religiously). Thanks for the clarification.

[Omega59er]

No.

[Exilyth]

I'd have chosen 'some time after the clan invasion' but there was no option for that, so I chose 'yes'.

[Azalie]

I don't think battle armor would be wise. Added in later? Perhaps. But I feel the launch of the game needs focus. Trying to do too much at once will likely backfire.

[Vernius Ix]

I would love to be able to use Elemental suits. I hope they get included when the Clan content arrives.

[Tatius Pryde]

BA does need to be there as its part of the canon. or atleast hinted at.

But the timeframe of which this game starts, BA was not around for quite some time.

Should only be implemented once IS and Clans had there respective BA models out in the time line.

Combined arms is a must however, If BA's are in so should aerospace and tanks / inf.

Quick thought and it sickens me but have them as mmo style pets.

*brrrghh*

maybe not.

Edited by Tatius Pryde, 08 February 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[Pulispher]

Why does everybody love battle armor? Their itty bitty and effing pesky.

[Suskis]

I'd love to see Protomechs

[Gun Bear]

If there are support powers or the like battle armor would be a great one for that but for anything else... no not seeing it.

[a rabid chihuahua]

I'm for BA if/when they bring in melee for mechs. I realy want the thrill of not stomping on a BA ..but punting him down the length of 2 football fields into a building!

Edited by Blane, 08 April 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[Reaper07]

Definitely no. I wont even bother going into the timeline issues or the balancing IS with Clan issues that would come from implementing BA. Instead I'll just stick with the simple (and to me obvious) game play issues.Matches are 12v12. So that means if Joe Schmoe decided to drop in a BA you have 12 mechs vs 11 mechs and a BA, which unbalances the match. Some of you would argue, "no no you would get to have 5 BA to make a point". Sorry folks doesn't work that way, the game then becomes 12 vs 16. Sure the BA aren't as formidable as a mech on their own but you still have unbalanced teams and that gives an unfair advantage no matter how you look at it. People have mentioned one person piloting a BA and having the remaining 4 members of the point be ai driven, or even letting someone have a point of ai controlled BA tag along with a mech. Yeah that doesn't work either. This game is all about strategy and team work. Any of you that have played an online game know that getting 12 people to work together is no easy feat in the best of circumstances. Give the guy piloting an Atlas a squad of BA to run around with and he isn't going to care at all what the rest of his lance/star are doing.
Finally, as some one pointed out earlier, the BA shouldn't handle the way a mech does. The ba should be a bit more fluid and human like to control. That means the Devs need to then put time and resources into putting those new mechanics into the game. Now I'll admit i know NOTHING about programming so this may be a moot point. But I would much rather have the devs putting resources into adding new mechs and more importantly, IMHO, new maps to the game.
Sorry if this seems a bit long winded, just wanted to put in my two C-Bills.


P.S. I loved the MA games, not as part of BT (which they most certainly were not) but simply because they were a fun way to kill an afternoon, but the idea of neuro hacking a mech is just absurd and i pray we never see it anywhere ever again.

[MrDred]

I expect encountering Elemental BA with the clan invasion force and i expect them to be dangerous. That being said, this is, as the clans themselves something best done later. Actually i would like to see the inclusion of infantry at one point, possibly as special ability like calling in airstrikes, gearing the mech twoards infantry transport or for calling in ground support in different flavours (fighters, chopters, artillery, tanks, infantry, etc), NOT as pilotable vehicle, but it should be there. This is a game about mechs, but the environment should be adequate. There is at least theoretically room for Elementals trying to crack open the cockpit ingame, maybe with the use of pilot sidearms involved to thwart that efford as a sequence maybe reflected in a defence package wich gives you a better chance at brushing it off, should it come to that (and considering atmospherical conditions, of course).

Remember that machine guns are primarily anti-infantry and those should have their dedicated uses, as should inferno ammo, shrapnel capsules and flamers.

Edited by MrDred, 09 April 2012 - 03:03 AM.

[Ulric Kell]

I'm cool with battle armor but I would want to make sure their rules followed closely with lore. If you ignore them you can get in a world of trouble but if you focus on them they shouldn't stand a chance against your battle mech.