9 replies to this topic

[Milocinia]

* Removed the XL280 engine from the mech I wanted to sell, saved new loadout.

* Checked the loadout summary, no engine present.

* Sold mech.

* Go to place engine in other mech, engine has disappeared.

* Re-purchase XL280.

* Curse PGI and consider ditching this game for good, not for the sake of an engine but for the atrocious balancing, unfixed bugs and constant new bugs.

[Tolkien]

AnaArt, support has a policy of not refunding MC, GXP or Cbills even when a bug is involved.

I dealt with Magius when I had the game take 21500 GXP to master an atlas, even though I had >21500mech xp and clicked on the 'Use Mech XP' button.

I salute your optimism though :/

[Karl Berg]

For what it's worth, the front-end is responsible for absolutely none of this logic. It simulates logic like equipping and purchasing items, but the servers behind the scenes actually perform all of the real operations upon your inventory. At the lowest levels, those servers wrap all inventory and purchase operations in large atomic DB transactions; so either the purchase / equip / unequip operation all goes through at the same time, or the whole thing fails and nothing happens to your inventory.

That being said, there are composite operations performed by the front-end, like selling a mech, where the game will first send a series of messages stripping all items from your mech and returning them to your inventory. Again, each of these strip operations are completely atomic, and simply consist of changing the 'equipped mech ID' column of the inventory item in question from the ID of your mech to a reserved invalid id; so there is no concept of deleting an item from your mech and adding a new item to your inventory. Once your mech is stripped, the front end can then sell the mech itself. The sell command is also atomic, it will either delete the mech and give you cbills, or it will do nothing. Atomicity is guaranteed by the database backend we use for persistent storage, and we purposefully pay the not inconsiderable cost of these reliability features to ensure you never need to deal with stuff going missing, because that really sucks as a user.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACID

If you think you've encountered an inventory bug, such as is described in the OP, my best advice is to log out, close the whole game, and then open it up and log in again. This should refresh all your inventory data from our servers, so even if there are UI bugs this should still get your game client back into a good state. We also keep full audit trails for all destructive operations which the CSR's can sift through to help you out if you file a support ticket.

[Chavette]

I'll say it. Karl should be getting bonuses for teaching the plebs software technology in his free time.

[warp103]

Karl Berg, on 19 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

For what it's worth, the front-end is responsible for absolutely none of this logic. It simulates logic like equipping and purchasing items, but the servers behind the scenes actually perform all of the real operations upon your inventory. At the lowest levels, those servers wrap all inventory and purchase operations in large atomic DB transactions; so either the purchase / equip / unequip operation all goes through at the same time, or the whole thing fails and nothing happens to your inventory.

That being said, there are composite operations performed by the front-end, like selling a mech, where the game will first send a series of messages stripping all items from your mech and returning them to your inventory. Again, each of these strip operations are completely atomic, and simply consist of changing the 'equipped mech ID' column of the inventory item in question from the ID of your mech to a reserved invalid id; so there is no concept of deleting an item from your mech and adding a new item to your inventory. Once your mech is stripped, the front end can then sell the mech itself. The sell command is also atomic, it will either delete the mech and give you cbills, or it will do nothing. Atomicity is guaranteed by the database backend we use for persistent storage, and we purposefully pay the not inconsiderable cost of these reliability features to ensure you never need to deal with stuff going missing, because that really sucks as a user.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACID

If you think you've encountered an inventory bug, such as is described in the OP, my best advice is to log out, close the whole game, and then open it up and log in again. This should refresh all your inventory data from our servers, so even if there are UI bugs this should still get your game client back into a good state. We also keep full audit trails for all destructive operations which the CSR's can sift through to help you out if you file a support ticket.

Karl Berg, on 19 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

For what it's worth, the front-end is responsible for absolutely none of this logic. It simulates logic like equipping and purchasing items, but the servers behind the scenes actually perform all of the real operations upon your inventory. At the lowest levels, those servers wrap all inventory and purchase operations in large atomic DB transactions; so either the purchase / equip / unequip operation all goes through at the same time, or the whole thing fails and nothing happens to your inventory.

That being said, there are composite operations performed by the front-end, like selling a mech, where the game will first send a series of messages stripping all items from your mech and returning them to your inventory. Again, each of these strip operations are completely atomic, and simply consist of changing the 'equipped mech ID' column of the inventory item in question from the ID of your mech to a reserved invalid id; so there is no concept of deleting an item from your mech and adding a new item to your inventory. Once your mech is stripped, the front end can then sell the mech itself. The sell command is also atomic, it will either delete the mech and give you cbills, or it will do nothing. Well no it not us it a bug somewere that you need to fix. backend we use for persistent storage, and we purposefully pay the not inconsiderable cost of these reliability features to ensure you never need to deal with stuff going missing, because that really sucks as a user.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACID

If you think you've encountered an inventory bug, such as is described in the OP, my best advice is to log out, close the whole game, and then open it up and log in again. This should refresh all your inventory data from our servers, so even if there are UI bugs this should still get your game client back into a good state. We also keep full audit trails for all destructive operations which the CSR's can sift through to help you out if you file a support ticket.

The audit is wrong because it has happen to me. Magius tells me that the seim sensor was that I seen in inventory was on from another mech.Which i told him that not possible because it never been unequipped from the other mech. So that right there tell me the audit is in error, if it telling you something that never happen. There is a bug in the sell, when you remove a item from the mech and Check before hand that it is in inventory then sell the mech.

It funny, we are your beta testers and you do not listen. I was in the close beta, then we tell you this is happening and you tell us no it not. When we know full well that we removed it, checked that it was remove then sell. Then look for it and it gone.

I have 100mil in cbills why the hell can you not see at least for me i do not need the cbills. We are reporting and it falling on deaf ear because you audit says this. When in fact I have know it is that. Listen to the OP it happen more time that I like and a guy that grinds to get the xl or whatever may not have 100mil in cb hanging around.
This the not the first time this has happen. I even recorded a sale a few month ago that it happen on sent it to support only for them to say well the audit says this yet my video shows that. Do not give me this "where the game will first send a series of messages stripping all items from your mech and returning them to your inventory" crap.

[Vermaxx]

Strip a mech. Save it. EXIT IT
Re-enter the mech in ML. Verify it is stripped. Sell it.

They're not ignoring us as "beta testers" Warp, they're telling us that all reliable scientific evidence indicates this isn't happening. Kyocera hasn't come back, so either he didn't ACTUALLY lose the engine, or he realized he did something stupid. Well, or he quit over a sold engine but Karl already said they can check logs to replace things in the UNLIKELY EVENT something did get eaten.

I am not a PGI {Noble MechWarrior}. I do not defend them with blinders on as angels of Mechwarrior who deserve the throne of First Lord of the Star League. And yet, in this instance, they did all they can. There are too many problems in the game for someone to tear apart UI1.0 and make sure it isn't occasionally eating items, when they can just check and replace items if necessary.

And, like I sarcastically opened with, strip the mech save the mech EXIT THE MECH go back and sell the mech. Since Closed Beta, I regularly exit my works in progress to make sure the changes took before making new changes. If you guys weren't here for CB, then here is a little gem of wisdom - ML is buggy and combative. It likes to fight with you, like a mental patient. Use slow, deliberate processes to minimize potential injury. You can't just ask a crazy person if they did something right, you have to give it a real second look.

Edit - they have a filter in that changes f a n b o y to Noble Mechwarrior.

Edited by Vermaxx, 20 June 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[Asmosis]

stating PGI isnt listening in a thread that PGI are responding to.

[warp103]

Vermaxx, on 20 June 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Strip a mech. Save it. EXIT IT
Re-enter the mech in ML. Verify it is stripped. Sell it.

They're not ignoring us as "beta testers" Warp, they're telling us that all reliable scientific evidence indicates this isn't happening. Kyocera hasn't come back, so either he didn't ACTUALLY lose the engine, or he realized he did something stupid. Well, or he quit over a sold engine but Karl already said they can check logs to replace things in the UNLIKELY EVENT something did get eaten.

I am not a PGI {Noble MechWarrior}. I do not defend them with blinders on as angels of Mechwarrior who deserve the throne of First Lord of the Star League. And yet, in this instance, they did all they can. There are too many problems in the game for someone to tear apart UI1.0 and make sure it isn't occasionally eating items, when they can just check and replace items if necessary.

And, like I sarcastically opened with, strip the mech save the mech EXIT THE MECH go back and sell the mech. Since Closed Beta, I regularly exit my works in progress to make sure the changes took before making new changes. If you guys weren't here for CB, then here is a little gem of wisdom - ML is buggy and combative. It likes to fight with you, like a mental patient. Use slow, deliberate processes to minimize potential injury. You can't just ask a crazy person if they did something right, you have to give it a real second look.

Edit - they have a filter in that changes f a n b o y to Noble Mechwarrior.

ok let me be clear i have recorded this happening to me a few months ago. And sent them the youtube link showing me.
1 going in to my cat k2. I removed both er ppc. 2 saved the mech. Then when in to the inventory comfirmed that both er ppc were there. Then went to a different mech stalker in this case to check heat eff. found it to hot{ no cost for ER ppg 2 in invertory}. chg back to k2 sold it. Screen showed sale of mech body only {no check in items box} confirmed. Bye K2 when back to stalker to add DLb heatsinks and add back er ppc. Now showing cost for err PPC. Meaning after the sale it sold the er ppc and eng and anything else that was not it. It simple even in the face of video showing exactly what i did they said that not possible.
Even with no brake in the video and me talking. Was making a video for my team mate why the stalker was better then the k2.
So no way they could say it was edited they just said sorry our audit was right your video is mistaken.

My issue is
1.acknowledge that sometimes it happens.
2.when you are shown that it happen credit the person back the item{which not happening because see number 1}.
3.Say sorry that you are having a issue{ stop treating vet like noobs}
4. Be more compassionate. Even if it was sold in error do a one time credit back{it call good will}.PGI does not have it hence why so many are mad/angry.

I wish i still had the video on my youtube channel.

Asmosis, on 20 June 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

stating PGI isnt listening in a thread that PGI are responding to.

just because someone is saying the party line does not mean they are listening. If joe is saying blah blah y and I am talking x does not mean joe is listening. Do not confuse the 2.

Edited by warp103, 20 June 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Targaryen X]

There's no "towing the party line" here, obviously Karl is listening, and he did say to go ahead and report if you believe there is an issue, then went on to give his explanation based on his knowledge, "for what its worth".
Perhaps it wasn't "worth" his effort something something something people not listening.
You got a response, an avenue for support, an explanation of the system involved... but hey, thanks for trying there Karl. No good deed and all that.

[warp103]

Gederix, on 20 June 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

There's no "towing the party line" here, obviously Karl is listening, and he did say to go ahead and report if you believe there is an issue, then went on to give his explanation based on his knowledge, "for what its worth".
Perhaps it wasn't "worth" his effort something something something people not listening.
You got a response, an avenue for support, an explanation of the system involved... but hey, thanks for trying there Karl. No good deed and all that.

ok I need to give the these two credit{Karl Berg and AnaArt}
. thank you both for responding. . that i s good pr in my book and i should have said that.

You both are trying you bests. My other post speak to the issues with support but you at least came in good faith and goodwill.

Edited by warp103, 20 June 2013 - 06:48 PM.