15 replies to this topic

[Gremlich Johns]

Some prospective players are asking about unit configs vis-a-vis how the Clan and IS units would match up. A Star is 5 a Lance is 4, so the IS company - the basic fighting organization is two Lances plus the Command mech (9 or should be) lance (so 12 mechs) (edited to reflect Cyote13's info)(Thanx mate) The Star is basic Clan equivalent - So, 2 Star vs 1 Company seems almost fair to me (1.2 coefficient in favor of the IS). (this was edited as well).

CBS Cluster From sarna.net

The image at that link depicts a standard CBS Cluster comprised of trinaries (which only CBS prefers). You can also note the Star/point concepts prevalent with the Clans.

Not sure how to read the diagram, though. For instance, one icon of mechs indicate 45 mechs which would be a trinary of stars, so one Trinary can itself consist of 15 trinaries? I mean, Sarna indicates that one trinary consists of 3 stars, one star of which is 5 points or in this case, 5 mechs. Regardless, there seem to be 3 trinaries of mechs yielding 2,025 mechs. (3x15x45)

Clarity is welcome!

If you look into each Clans Touman section, you may be able to ferret out the unit organizations. Most depict clusters.

Post here either links or images.

a simple cheat sheet:

A point is a single piece of ordnance (mech, battle armor, tank, artillery, truck, aerospace fighter) (or even one Star of a larger Star?)
A Star is composed of 5 points
Trinaries are 3 stars
Binaries are 2 stars
Cluster is 4-5 Binaries/Trinaries
Galaxy is 3-5 Clusters

for more research: ranks and units on Sarna

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 11 February 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Cyote13]

Gremlich Johns, on 11 February 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

SLance is 4, so the IS company - the basic fighting organization is two Lances plus the Command mech (9 or should be). The Star is basic Clan equivalent - So, 1 Star vs 1 Company seems perhaps fair to me (2:1 odds in favor of the IS).
for more research: ranks and units on Sarna

it should be 2 lances and a command LANCE. An IS Company is actualy 12 mechs

[Rabbit Blacksun]

Star can consist of the following

A. 1 mech
B. 5 elementals = 1 pt
C. vehicle = 1 pt

25 elementals = 1 star and so on

[CoffiNail]

Rabbit Blacksun, on 11 February 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Star can consist of the following

A. 1 mech
B. 5 elementals = 1 pt
C. vehicle = 1 pt

25 elementals = 1 star and so on

BloodSpirt do not falter from the Founder's star specification. So for Blood Spirits it tends to be 3 Mech Trinaries, and 1 vehicle Trinary *edit* with 1 aerospace trinary attached when needed from navel reserve*. They are the only ones though. But for most Clans a average star is usually comprised of the same asset type.

Edited by CoffiNail, 12 February 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[Rabbit Blacksun]

hey was rolling off the old books

Gremlich Johns, on 11 February 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

A point is a single piece of ordnance (mech, battle armor, tank, artillery, truck, aerospace fighter) (or even one Star of a larger Star?)

my little bit was in reference to that section should have clarified

Edit - ah i see what you mean ... yes should have clarified that statement a bit more ... a star will consist of the same type that was in reference to the above quote meaning that a point was only 1 piece of equipment when in fact that only applies to mechs

Edited by Rabbit Blacksun, 11 February 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

also, U.S. Tank companies are currently, (I believe) 3 x 4 tank platoons with one command tank for 13 tanks. maybe this organizational configuration could be adopted to round things out for the IS vs Clan @ 10 to 13. (using RL modern U.S. tactics) vice 10 to 12 (in canon) The U.S. used to have 3 x 5 tank platoons and 2 command tanks (CO and XO) for a 17 tank company. The Russians use 3 x 3 tank platoons and one command tank for a total of 10 tanks.

[CW Enchanter]

Gremlich Johns, on 11 February 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Not sure how to read the diagram, though. For instance, one icon of mechs indicate 45 mechs which would be a trinary of stars, so one Trinary can itself consist of 15 trinaries? I mean, Sarna indicates that one trinary consists of 3 stars, one star of which is 5 points or in this case, 5 mechs. Regardless, there seem to be 3 trinaries of mechs yielding 2,025 mechs. (3x15x45)

Numbers on top of diagram indicates overall vehicle count in cluster.

1 trinary of Mechs = 15 Mechs
3 trinary of Mechs = 45 Mechs

1 star of elementals = 25 elementals
1 point of elementals = 5 elementals
1 trinary of elementals = 75 elementals (15*5=75)

1 star of conventional infantry = 125 infantry
1 point of conventional infantry = 25 infantry
1 trinary of conventional infantry = 375 infantry

1 star of vehicles (aerospace) = 10 vehicles
1 point of vehicles (aerospace) = 2 vehicles
1 trinary of vehicles (aerospace) = 30 vehicles

Edited by CW_Enchanter, 11 February 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Fiachdubh]

CoffiNail, on 11 February 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

BloodSpirt do not falter from the Founder's star specification. So for Blood Spirits it tends to be 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Aerospace Trinary and 1 vehicle Trinary. They are the only ones though. But for most Clans a average star is usually comprised of the same asset type.

Due to a lack of resources early on Clan Snow Raven also operates more of a combined arms system in its second line units. A star of Mechs, a star of Elementals and an Aerospace star make up each Trinary to allow them to cover all situations independently, these are called Triads. In garrison units some Mech points can be replaced with Armour points to free up Mechs for elsewhere.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 12 February 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Gaius Kerensky]

ok the basics of Clan organization is
Point: 1 Mech, 5 Battlearmor, or 2 Vehicles or Aerospace assets
Star: 5 points
Binary: 2 Stars
Supernova: 1 Star Mechs, 1 Star Battlearmor
Trinary: 3 Stars
Galaxy: 3-5 Trinaries
Cluster: 3-5 Galaxies

I am Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky of the 9th Wolf Guard Galaxy
I bring a full Trinary of my finest warriors, with what will you defend...

these are the words of a trueborn warrior short, blunt, and true in every way....
seyla...

[Gremlich Johns]

Gaius Kerensky, on 16 February 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

ok the basics of Clan organization is
Point: 1 Mech, 5 Battlearmor, or 2 Vehicles or Aerospace assets
Star: 5 points
Binary: 2 Stars
Supernova: 1 Star Mechs, 1 Star Battlearmor
Trinary: 3 Stars
Galaxy: 3-5 Trinaries
Cluster: 3-5 Galaxies

I am Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky of the 9th Wolf Guard Galaxy
I bring a full Trinary of my finest warriors, with what will you defend...

these are the words of a trueborn warrior short, blunt, and true in every way....
seyla...

A minority of Clans use the "Nova" concept

[Petroff Northrup]

Tanks and other vehicles are 2 per point.

[Gremlich Johns]

I posted this in Jaroth's thread re: Clan Players Selection..... thread

JUST a thought, mates!!

Portraying a segment of an invading clan may be a good answer to the Khan/saKhan issue and involving a WHOLE clan. Have a GalCom, Cluster, or a Binary/Trinary Commander (keeping in mind that only Bloodnamed Warriors are selected to be GalComs) run the local event as part of the overall invasion campaign as separate and distinct entities. This would eliminate the need for a whole Clan coordinating over the entire route of the invasion. That could be done of course, but there would be no real need until a planetary league starts. The separate Clan elements could talk together and coordinate, but there would be no centralized Clan entity, just sub-units fighting IS dezgra.

Soooo, Research the desired Clan and pick a Canon (or reasonably within Canon) sub-component to portray (not every unit has been represented in the literature, TRO, or TTG). Since the size of the opposing Clan will number in groups of five (I would hope), gaming that way will negate the need for a Khan/saKhan. Each compoinent could possess, I should think, a loremaster and oathmaster at almost every level, the position being assumed by a player who is actually part of an active star. He would fulfill the role in much the same way a Clan LM/OM would and proceed as if there were higher level entities (The DEVS!) providing guidance or such.

Just a rambling thought mates.

[Semyon Drakon]

Gaius Kerensky, on 16 February 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

ok the basics of Clan organization is
Point: 1 Mech, 5 Battlearmor, or 2 Vehicles or Aerospace assets
Star: 5 points
Binary: 2 Stars
Supernova: 1 Star Mechs, 1 Star Battlearmor
Trinary: 3 Stars
Galaxy: 3-5 Trinaries
Cluster: 3-5 Galaxies

I am Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky of the 9th Wolf Guard Galaxy
I bring a full Trinary of my finest warriors, with what will you defend...

these are the words of a trueborn warrior short, blunt, and true in every way....
seyla...

Almost correct, swap Galaxy and Cluster and you will be right. Clusters make up Galaxies quiaff?

Semyon

[Deadfire]

Just to make sure we are all on the same page

Point - A Point is either 1 ‘Mech, 2 Tanks, 2 Aerospace Fighters, 5 Protomechs, 5 Elementals/Battle-armored Infantry, 25 standard foot infantry, or can mean a section or work-crew on a Navy vessel.

Star - 5 points, so 5 'Mechs, 10 tanks, 10 Aerospace Fighters, 25 Protomechs, 25 Elementals, or 125 infantry.

Nova - 1 Mech Star and 1 Elemental Star

Binary - 2 Stars and/or Novas

Trinary - 3 Stars and/or Novas

Super Nova - 2 Mech Stars and 2 Elemental Stars

Cluster - 4-5 Binaries, Trinaries and/or Super Novas

Galaxy - 3-5 Clusters


A Note on Novas:
In Clan Coyote and Clan Hell’s Horses, commanders of a Nova have the rank Nova commander, which is one rank higher than Star commander; and commanders of a Super nova have the rank Nova captain, which one rank higher than Star captain.

Edited by Deadfire, 23 February 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[GD26]

Quote

ok the basics of Clan organization is
Point: 1 Mech, 5 Battlearmor, or 2 Vehicles or Aerospace assets
Star: 5 points
Binary: 2 Stars
Supernova: 1 Star Mechs, 1 Star Battlearmor
Trinary: 3 Stars
Galaxy: 3-5 Trinaries
Cluster: 3-5 Galaxies

I am Star Colonel Gaius Kerensky of the 9th Wolf Guard Galaxy
I bring a full Trinary of my finest warriors, with what will you defend...

these are the words of a trueborn warrior short, blunt, and true in every way....
seyla... - Gaius Kerensky

A couple of things though:
1 Star of Mechs + 1 Star of Elementals (or normal infantry) form a Nova you forgot to list. The Supernova has one Mech Binary and 2 Stars of Elementals/Infantry.
However, Novas and Supernovas are mostly ad-hoc formed units as an answer to a given operational situation. Where for instance a Star or a Binary/Trinary can be too less or too much for an operation.
A Cluster can also have up to 7 Trinaries at some points.
But these are a thumb-rule of the organisational scheme of the Clans. Some Clans uses normal free-born infantry units or free-born Mechwarriors or artillery which are also included in Trinaries and Clusters.

Quote

Point - A Point is either 1 ‘Mech, 2 Tanks, 2 Aerospace Fighters, 5 Protomechs, 5 Elementals/Battle-armored Infantry, 25 standard foot infantry, or can mean a section or work-crew on a Navy vessel.- Deadfire

I don't know about tanks in some of the Clans - myself I'm mostly with the Smoke Jaguars. But a Point has 1 Mech or 5 Infantry (be it power-armoured or - as you called it - standard foot infantry). That's how I know it; i'll have to check my Tactical Read Out on Clans though. But, ifyou know it as 2 Tanks or 25 ordinary infantry or a section aboard a ship, please post a cannon accepted link to that, will you?

Edited by GD26, 07 March 2012 - 03:35 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

GD26, on 07 March 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

I don't know about tanks in some of the Clans - myself I'm mostly with the Smoke Jaguars. But a Point has 1 Mech or 5 Infantry (be it power-armoured or - as you called it - standard foot infantry). That's how I know it; i'll have to check my Tactical Read Out on Clans though. But, ifyou know it as 2 Tanks or 25 ordinary infantry or a section aboard a ship, please post a cannon accepted link to that, will you?

Field Manual Crusader Clans, Page 9