46 replies to this topic

[Ghost73]

It seems to me that past MW games seemed to roll the aspects of jumping in a mech and using jumpjets into one. I think it would be a nice addition to have the actions of jumping and using jumpjets be separate from another. This way, instead of slowly accelerating into the air on jumpjets, a mech can jump to gain vertical velocity rapidly and then use the jumpjets to continue the ascent. Obviously, heavier mechs will not be able to jump at all or as high as lighter mechs. Also, the ability to jump should not require that the mech has jumpjets.

As for controls, since jumping and using jumpjets are similar, the actions could use the same key, but have different requirements for activating. The main difference would be that jumping can only be used while on the ground. Jumpjets would be fired if the pilot held the button down while on the ground as opposed to just tapping to make the mech jump.

I think it should be implemented because it would be a nice small addition that would give the game more flavor in terms of vertical movement. It would also give the player another way to dodge some otherwise lethal damage if they can use it correctly.

As far as how high a mech can jump, I think that should be left up to the devs, since the ability to even just jump over a low cliff or wall that could not be stepped over would change the game dynamics, but could potentially add more varied gameplay.

Remember to keep your posts constructive and always include a reason with your opinion. I am not married to this idea, and while I do like it now, I could be persuaded otherwise.

EDIT:
Go to post 13 to see a continuation of my explanation and hopefully clear up some questions newcomers to the topic might have.

Edited by Ghost73, 14 February 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[ManDaisy]

I think we should have a key for jump jet bursting and a way to throttle jump jets. The same with movement and sidestepping.

Edited by ManDaisy, 14 February 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[SilentObserver]

Please no jumping.

Reason 1 : Bunnyhopping. if mechs can jump to any height where it matters. people will use the jump button as a perma dodge and mechs will be bunnyhopping all over the map. I feel this will really kill the flavor of Mechwarrior.

Reason 2 : Elephants cant jump. mechs shouldn't be able to jump either. Thats what jump jets are for. and thats why the mech doing a DFA attack always took damage. To safely land a mech from a jump, jump jets need to fire as retro rockets to slow things down. (which should happen automatically) The Legs cant absorb that much force.

So please, no jumping.

I am for pulsing jumpjets to control height and speed of a jump jet equipped mechs.

[Felix Dante]

The main concern for me is view.
I love the fact a mech can jump onto a high building or ledge, but we need to see to do it properly.
Jumping forward is not always a good choice.
Jumping backwards is often a better choice, but without a view to see where you are going you are
more likely to crash or miss a target.

Therefore I suggest that when full jump is engaged a third-person view would be nice. While jumping
and shooting should be possible, I'm not worried about it as much as I am about getting where I'm
trying to go. Altitude matters, and should, especially for suprise and fire-support situations.

As a matter of fact, I would love to see specific locations added to certain maps where jump jet mechs
would be in better than average positions. Not on every map mind you, just the ones where such things
would make some sense. Such as defensive locations (Mech bunkers) , cities (Parking garages),
Canyons and Mountains (rocky ledges).

-and yes I'm a Catapult fan.

P.S. NO BUNNY-HOPPING!

Edited by Felix Dante, 14 February 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[Aegis Kleais]

I'm vehemently against jumping. These are NOT human-sized suits of armor that perform intricate body mechanics like leaping.

In fact, coming down off a jump-jet and just letting gravity do the rest should cause serious damage to the mech and cause it to topple. I don't think the actuators could withstand those massive pressures unless the pilot used jump jet thrust to soften the landing to a more acceptable descent.

[Brakkyn]

I am all for [jet-assisted] jumping.

[Reggimus]

No jumping, ballistic arc jumpjets would be my choice.

[Zakatak]

No jumping without jet aids plex.

I've found jumpjets worth less then their mass in every MW game so far (haven't played MW2).
MW3, lacked areas to use them.
MW4, no inertia, no manoevring, climbing buildings is tough, HILLHUMPING TACTICS
MWLL, absolutely no place to use them, but the reticle shake is nice.

So long as it causes reticle instability, allows for some manoevring (thrust vectoring), and can be throttled on joysticks, I'm happy. Like Mechassault but less "floaty" and with less fuel.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Make them have a chance to fall down complete with falling damage every time you jump. Have fun bunny hopping.

[Aegis Kleais]

Hopefully, jump jets work in a manner that allow you the option of:

Use the entire thrust to achieve maximum height, but if you do not land somewhere higher than you started, you won't have enough fuel to burn during the descent to keep from causing damage.

Allow you to also use fuel to slow your descent before landing. This would be crucial to landing without falling and preventing massive damage to your legs.

The ability to use Jump jets is a huge advantage for the Mech; I'm hoping that proper deployment is just as critical to maintaining the Mech's functionality. I could only imagine the amount of force generated if you let a Mech plummet out of the air and didn't slow its fall; the actuators would overload instantly and the Mech could collapse to the group pretty violently. But ease her down, and it becomes a skill that you can use to get you out of tricky situations or to deploy a last effort DFA move.

Maybe too, if the kinetic force is big enough, enemies could time to right before a Mech is landing from a jump and hit it in order to promote the chances it will topple on landing.

[MaddMaxx]

Jumping begets Bunny hopping. The two will go hand in hand (so to speak). So sorry a jumping 80T Mech make me fell queezie all over. yuck.

[Aegis Kleais]

Using just enough jet to barely pick yourself up should cause the Mech to stumble and fall. Also, to demote repeated use, jets can take a while to recharge and also, there could be a lowered movement speed and interruption as the Mech lands to compose itself for movement again. A couple mechanics could be put in place to prevent any viable form of bunny hopping.

[Ghost73]

MaddMaxx, on 14 February 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Jumping begets Bunny hopping. The two will go hand in hand (so to speak). So sorry a jumping 80T Mech make me fell queezie all over.

I can't agree that jumping leads to bunny-hopping. If this game allows you to bunny-hop, then it has a bad jumping mechanic. All that is needed is a 'recovery time' to prevent spamming it. Also, in MW4 when mechs would land after a jump, even a soft one, they would lurch to imitate the effort required to successfully land, which will hopefully be brought back in this game. Somehow I just can't imagine mechs bunny-hopping. Also, I was not thinking that heavies would be jumping, only lights and maybe mediums.

Aegis Kleais™, on 14 February 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

The ability to use Jump jets is a huge advantage for the Mech; I'm hoping that proper deployment is just as critical to maintaining the Mech's functionality. I could only imagine the amount of force generated if you let a Mech plummet out of the air and didn't slow its fall; the actuators would overload instantly and the Mech could collapse to the group pretty violently. But ease her down, and it becomes a skill that you can use to get you out of tricky situations or to deploy a last effort DFA move.

This is what I am hoping for too, but in previous MW games, they were pretty useless except in specific situations, and even then the weight they took up could be better used elsewhere.

That is why I suggested being able to jump. The biggest problem with the jumpjets in previous games was the agonizingly long time it took to gain any amount of altitude when using them. Because it took so long, you actually couldnt get over your adversaries when you actually needed to. Letting mechs jump would allow them to quickly gain height AND vertical speed to make up for the very low acceleration that jumpjets have.

Aegis Kleais™, on 14 February 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

I'm vehemently against jumping. These are NOT human-sized suits of armor that perform intricate body mechanics like leaping.

Running is one of the most complicated actions a body can perform. In fact, while running, the body does leave the ground between steps. Jumping (from 2 feet to 2 feet) is much simpler anatomically than running, and leaping (from 1 foot to the other) is an extended form of running. Running just seems less complicated because it is a more familiar feeling. Running actually requires all the muscles jumping does and a couple more. If a mech has the muscles to run, it has the muscles to jump, and, by extension, it has the muscles to land that jump.

(Edit) Just a little more:
Myomers (the stuff that makes Battlemechs move) simulate muscles and have a better strength to weight ratio than organic muscles.

Edited by Ghost73, 14 February 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[nubnub]

You should be able to jump but only light mechs would be able to gain any height. Bunny-hopping is fine but it would be near impossible to shoot accurately from a jumping mech. I think this is the most realistic approach.

[Yeach]

Zakatak, on 14 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

No jumping without jet aids plex.

I've found jumpjets worth less then their mass in every MW game so far (haven't played MW2).
MW3, lacked areas to use them.
MW4, no inertia, no manoevring, climbing buildings is tough, HILLHUMPING TACTICS
MWLL, absolutely no place to use them, but the reticle shake is nice.

Disagree.
MW4 was only MW game that did have inertia/momentum.
When using jumpjets you had to accelerate from a dead stop before hanging to zero thrust at your apex before you ACCELERATE coming down (for a DFA).
What MW4 could have improved was preventing the tiny spurts of jumpjeting aka bunny hopping. hitting the jumpjet should have given you a good 5 seconds of substained thrust rather than allow you to modulate little amounts of it again aka bunny hopping.

[Durant Carlyle]

Negative. No jumping without jump jets. Also, you should have to select your target landing zone before initiating a jump. Like this:

Hit 'J' to jump
An arc appears denoting your maximum jump distance
You select where you want to land with the mouse
Once you click the destination, the jets fire
The jump itself (and landing) would be automated
You can control the facing of your 'Mech while in the air with the direction keys (WASD or arrows or whatever)
You can fire normally at any time during the jump, but due to the speed and method of movement aiming would be difficult (reticle shake, etc)

Pros:
No possibility of bunny hopping. Ever.
No skating.

Cons:
Requires practice to be effective. (realistic)

Thoughts?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I think JJ's should be properly modelled to represent what mechs should be able to do in "lore". Movement once in the air controlled as when walking. There should also be a cool down period. No bunny hopping or MW2 skating. JJ's should be as useful as they are in TT and have the same sort of penalties ie wobbles on landing and if you can't prevent it you fall over. Make it something that you need to practice to get right ie a skill, not an automatic process. You are the pilot - it should be your skill that determines what you can do when jumping.
Let's face it - when you are floating around up in the air you're going to be a target - I want the ability to control the jump. Whether its high up to the top of a cliff or long across a river.

[ManDaisy]

I take it your not a fan of table top then? Although I agree there is a fine line separating MWO battletech from/ mecha anime, trying to eliminate jumping entirely is taking away to much from the battletech side in general.

Edited by ManDaisy, 15 February 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"I can't agree that jumping leads to bunny-hopping. If this game allows you to bunny-hop, then it has a bad jumping mechanic. All that is needed is a 'recovery time' to prevent spamming it. Also, in MW4 when mechs would land after a jump, even a soft one, they would lurch to imitate the effort required to successfully land, which will hopefully be brought back in this game. Somehow I just can't imagine mechs bunny-hopping. Also, I was not thinking that heavies would be jumping, only lights and maybe mediums."

Jumping in a Mech would be that bad mechanic. Should we add in some "slow mo" animations in while they are in the air, to accent how cool 80T of jumping Mech looks?

As to the human comparison, show me a 80T human and then we can do some experiments. My guess is even at 400Lbs, a human doesn't leave their feet much and even getting moving fast enough to attempt it is out of the question.

Jets burn to get lift off, use up all your fuel, you plummet to the earth like a stone. Jetting should absolutely be a Skill the PILOT learns and has to master.

Gaming Experience has shown, countless times. Give a player a Jump ability and many WILL bunny hop around like a asshat every time. It takes but one, to make the whole game just a bad Joke.

As to allowing only certain weight classes to jump. Ummm, you don't think the players of those other weight class wouldn't feel a bit put off perhaps, or is it you just don't care as you will always be driving a jumper?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 February 2012 - 07:32 AM.

[Neanderthaler]

certain weight classes should jump. a flying target makes it funnyer