47 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Re-Reading a Mech novel of mine brought for this thought...

Obviously we are seated in Mech that range up to 40+ feet tall, Knowing this, would a fall while strapped in these machines not have real physical repercussions beyond getting the wind knocked out of you?

Thoughts?

Edited by DaZur, 13 February 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Razed]

I like the idea of temporary impairment being caused by having your 'Mech knocked down because it not only adds a little more realism but it also makes some other tactical options viable. I don't think prolonged or cumulative penalties would be a good idea just because I feel like there's a line between realism and fun and that sort of impairment would, while being very realistic, not be very much fun.

[Arkas]

I'd imagine you'd have to suffer something from this even if you are strapped in tight in the cockpit of the mech. I'd say getting knocked over should be a hard/easy thing to pull of in some instances and should definately have a chance to kill a mech if you knock them off a high clif or something. You are knocking something over that's going to be at least 15 tons or more.

Having cummulative things along the line of damage to the mech would be reasonable. Something like having the mech unable to aim or turn as smoothly because it's been knocked over far to many times.

I'd say when you start getting knocked over more then 5 times or continuing to get knocked over hard.. you should start feeling it more in your mech then you as a pilot. As the pilot you might just be annoyed while your mech starts to have a few kinks here and there. Your Atlas that's been knocked on it's face might not be so accurate after getting slammed to the ground once it kisses the dirt around 10 or more times.

[MaddMaxx]

Waiting for your Mech to get back up should be penalty enough. If an impairment is added it should last only as long as getting back up lasts.

[Convaras Bloodskorn]

Arkas, on 13 February 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

I'd imagine you'd have to suffer something from this even if you are strapped in tight in the cockpit of the mech.

When I first read this poll my immediate thought went to this idea and, for that reason, I thought "Naaaaaaaaah, you're strapped in!" Then I took a moment to think before I posted and realized what a silly idea that was. Of course being strapped in alone won't totally prevent damage. That being said, I still don't think anything beyond waiting for your mech should be introduced, and if something is added it shouldn't go beyond temporary impairment. Sure, I suppose you could argue that far worse things should technically happen, but its that line of realism/fun that Razed touched on. Yea, I could see it being very likely something more serious would happen from such a severe fall, even harnessed in, but I feel like anything beyond temporary impairment (and potentially even that) starts to take away from the game. The game is focusing on mech combat and while one could argue that the pilot's health is a part of that, I would argue that that is true only to a limited degree. Yes, it is a part of the overall conceptual idea of the experience, but it is not the focus. It is more of a secondary aspect, if it is included at all. In my mind focusing on physical consequences of the pilot from falling just opens the door to damage that would result from things like electrical overloads or temperature buildups from an excess of heat. It is reasonable to say that those things could occur, realistically speaking, but that doesn't mean they should be included.

Falling down and having to get back up itself should be penalty enough. That being said I wouldn't be wholly against something like temporary physical impairment as mentioned above, but I don't think that there should be any long-term impairment or certainly think that in a game like this it would be absurd to risk instant death off of a secondary aspect of the game.

Edited by Convaras Bloodskorn, 13 February 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[BarHaid]

Convaras Bloodskorn, on 13 February 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

In my mind focusing on physical consequences of the pilot from falling just opens the door to damage that would result from things like electrical overloads or temperature buildups from an excess of heat. It is reasonable to say that those things could occur, realistically speaking, but that doesn't mean they should be included.

Falling down and having to get back up itself should be penalty enough. That being said I wouldn't be wholly against something like temporary physical impairment as mentioned above, but I don't think that there should be any long-term impairment or certainly think that in a game like this it would be absurd to risk instant death off of a secondary aspect of the game.

I think that high heat should have adverse effects on the pilot, but not permanent; same with falling and headshot damage. We could use the old "stim-pack" trope to get our pilot back up to fighting shape. The drugs should be able to last for at least twenty minutes.

[DaZur]

Rethinking and reviewing above comments, I'm rethinking my initial thoughts on this subject...

That said, there are strategic as well and cause/effect hurdles that still remain.

Temporary impairment seems to be fairly popular so far (still very early in poll results..) I still like the idea of penalizing a Mech pilot for doing stupid things... (especially the derp who rams his Locust into an Atlas..). It's not tactically sound... They are out massed by 70 tons etc... Should be some sort of penalty for not thinking soundly?

Also... think about two Locust playing "chicken" with a combined closure rate of 160 MPH, the resulting impact quite honestly should result in the death of both Mech pilots?

Fall from height... be it walking off a ledge, mis-judging jet-jump or drop from orbit... even tumbling down a hill /mountain as a result of a bad step, ramming or a knock-back from some heavy munition strikes...

Dunno... I like the idea of adding more strategic though processing... And the only real way of doing that is by creating some sort of fear of repercussion...

[icepick37]

Have they talked about actually losing legs in this game? It was kind of hateful in mechcommander when mechs would gimp around on a shredded leg...

[Cyote13]

There should be some consequences to falling...especially for a DFA that only hits a shoulder or something.

[DaZur]

Cyote13, on 13 February 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

There should be some consequences to falling...especially for a DFA that only hits a shoulder or something.

Definitely... Strategically, one should have to measure whether damaging their Mech and or themselves is worth the inherent risks involved with a DFA. Again... DFA loses it's strategic benefit if there is no repercussion for doing the maneuver, let along failing while trying to execute it!

icepick37, on 13 February 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Have they talked about actually losing legs in this game? It was kind of hateful in mechcommander when mechs would gimp around on a shredded leg...

I "believe" consensus is it will be in in one iteration or another... PGI I think is still experimenting with how they will implement this.

[Joseph Calvert]

DaZur, on 13 February 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Rethinking and reviewing above comments, I'm rethinking my initial thoughts on this subject... That said, there are strategic as well and cause/effect hurdles that still remain. Temporary impairment seems to be fairly popular so far (still very early in poll results..) I still like the idea of penalizing a Mech pilot for doing stupid things... (especially the derp who rams his Locust into an Atlas..). It's not tactically sound... They are out massed by 70 tons etc... Should be some sort of penalty for not thinking soundly? Also... think about two Locust playing "chicken" with a combined closure rate of 160 MPH, the resulting impact quite honestly should result in the death of both Mech pilots? Fall from height... be it walking off a ledge, mis-judging jet-jump or drop from orbit... even tumbling down a hill /mountain as a result of a bad step, ramming or a knock-back from some heavy munition strikes... Dunno... I like the idea of adding more strategic though processing... And the only real way of doing that is by creating some sort of fear of repercussion...

For getting knocked down I think the temporary effects are fine. As far as the stupid actions you have stated Dazur, Those I believe will have their own set of of results.
Charging will be in the game from the beginning. So, if I'm remembering the TT rules correctly, running a Locust into an Atlas will be very bad for the Locust as well as playing chicken. (the warning "eject now" comes to mind)
The other poor judgement calls will give the other team an easy kill or a kill outright.

The Pilot getting bang around is the least of the players problems if they're pulling these stunts.

Anyone please correct me if I'm off base here.

Edited by Joseph Calvert, 13 February 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[DaZur]

Joseph Calvert, on 13 February 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

For getting knocked down I think the temporary effects are fine. As far as the stupid actions you have stated Dazur, Those I believe will have their own set of of results.
Charging will be in the game from the beginning. So, if I'm remembering the TT rules correctly, running a Locust into an Atlas will be very bad for the Locust as well as playing chicken. (the warning "eject now" comes to mind)
The other poor judgement calls will give the other team an easy kill or a kill outright.

The Pilot getting bang around is the least of the players problems if they're pulling these stunts.

Anyone please correct me if I'm off base here.

I hope your right sir....

I'm not particularly looking forward to the first time some scout in a Locust sneaks behind my Zeus and start dry-humping my left knee actuator then commences to flood the comms with profanity laced complaints because he insists at 160 (bad math) 60 MPH he should be able to knock my Mech to the ground with a precision ram to my popliteal fossa....

Edited by DaZur, 13 February 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[Anvil Dragon]

Temporary balance issues seems reasonable and maybe minor damage like a sensor or an aiming tweek on one arm.

Your are strapped in and cushioned so that bit is more like a Nascar racer banging the wall, even if your vehicle is mostly scrap you can crawl out, throw your helmet down, and shake your fist. Your biggest risk inside is spalling from the hull from explosive rounds not falling, that's more of a fender bender.

[Solis Obscuri]

DaZur, on 13 February 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm not particularly looking forward to the first time some scout in a Locust sneaks behind my Zeus and start dry-humping my left knee actuator then commences to flood the comms with profanity laced complaints because he insists at 160 (bad math) 60 MPH he should be able to knock my Mech to the ground with a precision ram to my popliteal fossa....

Isn't that what the rear-firing MLas is for?

[Razed]

Anvil Dragon, on 13 February 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Temporary balance issues seems reasonable and maybe minor damage like a sensor or an aiming tweek on one arm.

Your are strapped in and cushioned so that bit is more like a Nascar racer banging the wall, even if your vehicle is mostly scrap you can crawl out, throw your helmet down, and shake your fist. Your biggest risk inside is spalling from the hull from explosive rounds not falling, that's more of a fender bender.

Maybe in the morning I won't be too lazy to do the math but I'd bet there's a significant force difference between a NASCAR crash and falling over in a 10 m tall 'Mech, especially if that 'Mech is running at 60 KPH or so.

[DaZur]

Solis Obscuri, on 13 February 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Isn't that what the rear-firing MLas is for?

True... But then again, how long am I going the stand there "Pewing" him with that single ML before their ankle-biting annoys me enough to turn around and let them have it point-blank with my AC/5?

...Not long at all.

[osito]

i voted for temp disorientation. If you do ride a large mech to the ground their could be injuries besides just a bad concussion. Even if you are strapped in limbs can smash into the bulkhead, and lets not forget that heavy neuro-helmet. You get whiplash with that thing on you are going to be hurting.

[Trogusaur]

I'm not commonly one to ask "keep to canon", but 50,000+ pounds of falling metal has to have some repercussions. Like dying possibly.

[jbone]

Here's my two cents, mind you i'm a big TT fan.

In TT if you fall you gotta make a check to avoid piloting damage (this gets harder as you take more damage), 5 hits every time you take a hit you have to check to see if you got knocked out (and the difficulty of stain awake gets harder), the sixth time you take pilot damage don't bother, hopefully you had your affairs in good order, because the next thing your going to pilot is a casket.

Charges, just saying a 30 ton mech hitting Big Al at 65 miles an hour is not going to be a good thing for either party, Both sides don't fare well the victim if hit well fares much worse (said 30 ton mech hitting an atlas after moving 8 hexes does 24 points of damage in groups of five, like LRM's, Big Al Does 10 to little dumb mech) Then Atlas gets pushed and checks to avoid falling.

DFA, It's flat damage based on tonnage... both have to make piloting checks if the attack connects and both do so at big penalties (2+ is a big penalty), to avoid falling. There is a very good reason why they call it a Highlander Burial, damage is done in groups of 5 and on the punch table (roll a 6 hit the head, plus you score a point of pilot damage)

I'm a big fan of charges, not only in the act of hitting you for hopefully a good chunk of damage but knocking you over the edge of something... like a depth 6 canyon, cue the goofy howl.

[Ian MacLeary]

DaZur, on 13 February 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

True... But then again, how long am I going the stand there "Pewing" him with that single ML before their ankle-biting annoys me enough to turn around and let them have it point-blank with my AC/5?

...Not long at all.

Uh... a medium laser does the exact same damage as an AC/5. Just sayin'.