44 replies to this topic

[Viper69]

It was not shot in the neck, watch it again. It was shot in the fat of the body. The only thing i can think is they have small shield generators and when it fell it knocked it off line.

[Jetfire]

Viper69, on 07 September 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

We can replicate it when we get some quad mechs. Lower the speed to about 20kph and only load two medium lasers and two large lasers in the torso.

Thing we arent remembering is AT-ATs are completely invulnerable till they fall over. Look at the movie, speeder blasters just poof on them, but as soon as it falls one shot and splat. So its obvious we need a few Dragon mechs to trip them up first, then shoot them.

The speeders used laser cannons effective against light vehicles. Effectively the two combined should equal 1 slas about. The T-47's were in no way a match for those AT-AT's. It was only by the shear skill of Rogue Squadron that any of them were brought down. I mean it was basically some ultralight aircraft versus walking brinks trucks.

[Imagine Dragons]

Random fact, from a X-wing novel by Stackpole (lol), stated why the starfighter/speeder mounted blasters did nothing to an AT-AT on Hoth.

The snowspeeders on Hoth had serverly underpowered lasers at the time, they had very bad quality "gas" being a rebel group with spotty logistics.

This gas, known as vespine tibanal gas is what powers the blasters/lasers/turbolasers in the SW universe.

In that particular X-wing novel, X-Wings literally cut through AT-ATs armor like cheese.

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 07 September 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Nebfer]

Interestingly an AT-AT supposedly can reach a top speed of around 60kph, though it's seems to be not in use here (well on Hoth at lest).

The armor and firepower of the AT-ATs are some what unknown, Though most debates on this topic I have seen generally assume that battlemechs have enough firepower to at lest do some harm, in any case a mech has more than just laser cannons in it's weapons arsenal.

As for centurions vs AT-ATs well in theory they have the same speed, The B-mech is roughly half the size (height wise) and the battlemech actually has a some what easier time hitting (rules for super heavy mechs indicate that large targets are easier to hit).

Now if the emch can get into the rear area of the AT-AT and stay their then theirs not much it can go... (unless theirs a hatch back their that can allow an E-web to be used or a missile launcher?).


The biggest thing is an AT-AT is effectively a large platoon sized IFV, a Battlemech is a Tank...

[Brethern]

I'm farely certain that it's plot armor. At At had to be strong otherwise the movie would have been called. The empire fails again.

[Catamount]

Viper69, on 07 September 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

It was not shot in the neck, watch it again. It was shot in the fat of the body. The only thing i can think is they have small shield generators and when it fell it knocked it off line.

I did, and it was.

https://www.youtube....CObJVJk#t=3m30s

One shot strikes the snow just in front of the walker, the second strikes the head, inflicting no apparent damage, then the third and fourth (simultaneous) shots strike right at the neck area (at least one of the four cannons does seem to impact the body behind it; who know what kind of splash damage that causes; 3 of them either directly strike the neck, or hit so close, it's effectively at the neck, depending on the exact laser bold you're talking about), with the fourth shot, the most direct to the neck, being the one that strikes the moment the walker explodes.







They weren't really hitting the "fat part", at all; all four shots were basically right at or absurdly close to the neck joint.

It's also the only real way to make sense of the scene, besides "plot armor". I mean, what, does the armor on the body suddenly fatigue magically when the mech suffers a little tumble, and lose 90% of its strength? The armor was clearly still attached, and it was the same armor, so it would absorb the same energy from a DET weapon. Hitting a weaker spot makes a lot more sense, and while it paints the rebels as inept for not just doing that in the first place, we already know they were inept, because they flew at AT-ATs head on in T-47s

Edited by Catamount, 10 September 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[Kaarde]

AT-ATs were designed for combined arms planetary assaults. They were to be backed up by AT-STs, ground troops and air support.
While Mechs are pretty much used in a lance or squad form.

While comparatively less mobile, the AT-ATs are mobile bunkers and I think could hold their own if supported. Besides, they don't overheat, have better targeting computers and sensors, and dont suffer from their armor shedding off when hit.

As far as that goes, Luke used his light saber to cut open a hatch to the engine compartment to toss his grenade into. He never touched the armor. I think the mechs would be at a disadvantage armor wise.

Besides, I'll take an Imp Star over a drop ship any day.

[Catamount]

Kaarde, on 10 September 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

AT-ATs were designed for combined arms planetary assaults. They were to be backed up by AT-STs, ground troops and air support.
While Mechs are pretty much used in a lance or squad form.

While comparatively less mobile, the AT-ATs are mobile bunkers and I think could hold their own if supported. Besides, they don't overheat, have better targeting computers and sensors, and dont suffer from their armor shedding off when hit.

As far as that goes, Luke used his light saber to cut open a hatch to the engine compartment to toss his grenade into. He never touched the armor. I think the mechs would be at a disadvantage armor wise.

Besides, I'll take an Imp Star over a drop ship any day.

Of course AT-ATs take armor damage when hit; everything does, unless it's magical impervious armor. They just weren't being hit by enough at Hoth to sustain any damage of note. And if a mere lightsaber can cut through that "hatch", and expose so many critical systems, that a hand grenade's explosion in the middle of the body can cause the head to explode , then I'd hate (or love) to see what a real quantity of energy from, say, a PPC or an SRM barrage would do.

Now Star Wars does seem more advanced, in many respects, than BT, even if an ISD's BT counterpart would be an actual warship (like a Leviathan class), not a dropship. The problem isn't actual technology; it's engineering. The Imperials are ****-poor engineers. The Republic was competent there, and the Rebel Alliance's gear was often competently engineered as well, making good actual use of the technology. The Imperials, on the other hand... look, do I really have to say anything other than "exhaust port"?

[Regina Redshift]

I refuse to answer this post until the OP fixes two things:
1: They are not camel 'mechs. They're AT-AT's. Pronounce it however you want.
2: A Centurion cannot fit two Large Lasers in its CT. No 'mech can. The CT only has two available crits, each LLAS takes up to crits.

Preferably create a scenario in which the two would fight. The AT-AT will fair better in hot climates than a Battlemech. A medium Battlemech will fair much better in an urban setting than an AT-AT due to size and cover issues. Which side is attacking, which side is defending. At the AT-AT's carrying AT-STs and infantry?

[Kaarde]

Catamount, on 10 September 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Of course AT-ATs take armor damage when hit; everything does, unless it's magical impervious armor. They just weren't being hit by enough at Hoth to sustain any damage of note. And if a mere lightsaber can cut through that "hatch", and expose so many critical systems, that a hand grenade's explosion in the middle of the body can cause the head to explode , then I'd hate (or love) to see what a real quantity of energy from, say, a PPC or an SRM barrage would do.

Now Star Wars does seem more advanced, in many respects, than BT, even if an ISD's BT counterpart would be an actual warship (like a Leviathan class), not a dropship. The problem isn't actual technology; it's engineering. The Imperials are ****-poor engineers. The Republic was competent there, and the Rebel Alliance's gear was often competently engineered as well, making good actual use of the technology. The Imperials, on the other hand... look, do I really have to say anything other than "exhaust port"?

What I was referring to with the armor is that BT armor is meant to ablate, which means to take the damage and shed off the mech. Hence many of the books referring to mechs loosing tons of armor from hits, collisions etc thus exposing internal components. SW armor works on absorption and burn through. Meaning it won't loose armor plates like mechs do, thus supposedly holding integrity longer until it's blasted apart.

As far as the light saber goes, in the scene it shows the hatch retracting. And the charge got tossed in the reactor/ engine room. Catostrophic failures like the resulting explosion would ruin anyone's day.

As far as exhaust ports go, there had to be a plot device in there for the invincible battle station right? All tech series have their weak points.
I'm more of a thought that Mechs wouldn't slap the slinky out of a co-ordinated ground assault like some say they would.

Comapring space navies would have BT on the run from SW. Heck, Buck Rogers would take out Jump ships. They are too fragile. Even the ones meant for combat.

All told, this is a silly topic, two different visions, two different tech bases. Fun to cheese about though.

Edited by Kaarde, 10 September 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[Kaarde]

Point of note: the ground based cannons the rebels used. A few scenes showed AT ATs taking hits and the power of the shot being absorbed by the armor. It's not realistic by any imagination as the energy has to go somewhere, but you didn't see armor plates fracturing and falling off of them.

[xTyberx]

Ever heard of an AT-PT? It might have a chance against the Jenner in speed,but not in firepower or armor.

[Viper69]

Catamount, on 10 September 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

I did, and it was.

I stand corrected good sir.

[Vector]

AT-ATs had armour ... mechs don't they have numbers all over them so no contest

[Zakatak]

AT-AT's move maybe 10kph. They can't turn. They are enormous targets. Their main cannons have so little power that they can't even phase an infantry standing a meter away from the blast.

Battlemech weapons are 3-4 digit megajoules in power (even a small laser has triple the power of an Abrams main gun). A large laser alone is about 500MW, and at point blank, could probably cut right through the armor (like a puny lightsaber can). They could chill out under the AT-AT or just jump on top where the big stupid robot can't shoot back. Curbstomp Battletech, Empire engineering is laughable.

Edited by Zakatak, 30 September 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Alois Hammer]

Have to agree with:

If a lightsaber did it, a pair of mlasers could too.

Little to no armor on the bottom, get close and fire up.

(...from the sides or behind, where it can't shoot back.)

And let us not forget: Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy!

http://tvtropes.org/...smanshipAcademy


Yeah, I'd have to go with "Major black eye for the Empire."

[Dirk Diggler]

There's a few things people aren't taking into consideration here:

1. AT-AT are armored transports for one... can the BT mechs also take out the support one of those things is carrying inside of it? There's got to be at least a company's worth of support in there.

2. Remember that lasers didn't work against AT-AT's in the first place, hence the tow cables. Could BT weaponry even penetrate their armor.

3. Someone mentioned an AT-AT only have 2 medium lasers and 2 pulse lasers...uhh, didn't two of those lasers blow up a huge installation with only a couple of shots? The weaponry of the AT-AT is being waaay underestimated.


OK, so it's not very maneuverable, but it's not meant to be... it's meant to take hard shots so as to get what its transporting to the front, which will be maneuverable...sooo, 20 AT-AT's and it's haul vs BT mechs...gotta give it to the AT-ATs

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Star Wars Mechs aren't designed for Mech combat. They're designed to walk forward to shoot at a stationary enemy position or base. This is also why they got their ***** handed to them in the third movie. They can't turn quickly enough or strafe like a battletech Mech. Our Mechs were actually designed to fight other Mechs in skirmishes, thus they can move in all directions very effectively and strafe effectively while shooting in in most directions. Star Wars does have the technology to make Mechs like ours, but the movies just didn't do that. They mainly came in 3 types, the huge siege tanks in the second movie(AT ATs), the smaller walkers featured mostly in the third movie(AT STs), and the tiny one that is basically an armored transport.(AT PT) The first is a walking fortress and cannon to blow open bases like a battering ram. The second is for shooting at enemy ground positions/turrets/infantry. The third is little more than a transport for personal. All would get utterly destroyed by any of our battlemechs. The first would never hit a battlemech thus you would just sit behind it and slowly tear it apart. The second one would get out-strafed with ease and picked on.(It would also get stomped by bigger Mechs because it's basically a slow moving Commando) The third one is so small even our Commandos would laugh at it in a fight.

So while they do have the technology to make stuff like ours... they just didn't. But they did make the ability to blow up entire planets in 1 shot so...

[ajskye]

My goal in life would be to Death From Above a ATAT or at least land on it's back and shoot it in the head. One can dream I suppose.

[Alymbic]

To be fair, there was nothing which the rebellion had which could stand toe to toe with an AT-AT.

One of the reasons the Hoth assault was so badly conducted ( in canon, not counting movie logic) as that a (space) admiral had planned the deployment and the forces to be used for it. We all know how well trained space officers are when it comes to planning ground deployments....

You want to see an AT-AT to be effective? Give it 2 AT-ST's for support, and a pair of combat speeders to spot. Better yet, give it Grand Admiral Thrawn to command it. That man/alien could take down a lance of battlemechs with a piece of string, 2 sticks, a clown and a handful of confetti

Edited by Alymbic, 30 September 2012 - 02:15 PM.