40 replies to this topic

[Chief Justice]

Hi folks,

sorry to bother you with questions, but i ran into some pretty thick walls, and i was curious if you could gimme some tipps to prevend them in the future or fix them, because i may have overlooked something.

First of all i have the problem with customized mechs.

I bought a mech with the 25 match cadet bonus of nearly 10 mio cbills.
Problem is, the build looked fine, worked nicely in my head, but i wasn't able to bring it into the field effectivly.
So i'm stuck with a build i can't really call "good", i'm left with 1,2mio CBills and my average match earns me about 50 to 70k. Even a good match with 1 or 2 kills and a few assists only gets me a 120k.

If i try to sell the mech, that had cost me 10Mio to buy and customize, i get 2,5 Mio back(including equipment). Is that a bug?
I get 25% of the value of that thing?
How can i try out things and builds if i don't even get lets say half my money back?
50% would be reasonable, because most of the upgrades are freaking expensive, even more than the mech itself, but 25%?

In effect the only viable way i can see, is to start over, make a new account and start with the trial mechs and the cadet bonus again, right?

Are there any tipps/hints you can give me to prevent the situation mentioned above in the future?
Maybe a tipp how to soften the impact of a wrong choice of mech, so that i don't have to start over?

Anything that helps is most appreciated.

Thank you.

[superteds]

what's the mech, what's wrong with it?

also use something like http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ to help you pre-plan builds.

[Chief Justice]

Hi,

i already used that tool, but it only helps in the matter what can be build, not if you can use it effectivly.

I bought a Catapult K2, and armed it with a ppc and 2x Ultra AC/5.

Problem is, i underestimated how fast the ammo goes, and the PPC is a difficult beast to handle properly.
I didn't know that, because none of the trial mechs has a ppc.

I also have the impression, that the targeting is somewhat "off".
I mounted all weapons in the torso sections, but the weapons still fire in the "wrong" direction if i turn.
It's a little bit disconcerning.

So it seems i'm better off with a beam weapon build.

[superteds]

the targeting being 'off' is to do with weapon convergence it's a bit lengthy to explain, but suffice to say that everyone struggles with it. cata K2 is a very flexible mech, so don't sell it, just repurpose it.

you like lasers for example, so try something like this;


Chassis Name: Catapult
Model Name: CPLT-K2
Variant Name: 4LLAS

Engine Cost: 1,200,000 C-Bills
Heat Sink Cost: 32,000 C-Bills
Armor Cost: 120,192 C-Bills
Weapons Cost: 800,000 C-Bills
Equipment Cost: 256,000 C-Bills
Ammo Cost: 2,000 C-Bills

Engine: 300 XL Engine
Internal Type: Std Internals
Armor Type: Std Armor
Heat Sinks: 18 (12) Double Heat Sinks

Tonnage: 65.00
Speed: 74.8 kph
Armor Total: 384
Alpha Strike Damage: 36.00
Alpha Strike Heat: 47.95%
Firepower: 8.47 dps
Heat Efficiency: 47.36%
Effective Range of Loadout: 450m

Head: 18/18
Right Torso: 40/60
Right Rear Torso: 20/60
Center Torso: 62/84
Center Rear Torso: 22/84
Left Torso: 40/60
Left Rear Torso: 20/60
Right Arm: 40/40
Left Arm: 40/40
Right Leg: 41/60
Left Leg: 41/60

Weapons Locations
Right Arm:
Large Laser
Left Arm:
Large Laser
Right Torso:
Large Laser
Left Torso:
Large Laser

Heat Sink Locations
Right Arm: 1

Left Arm: 1

Right Torso: 2

Left Torso: 2


Equipment Locations
Right Torso:
AMS

Center Torso:
BAP


Ammo Locations
Head:
AMS Ammo

File created using MWO Mechbay

It's not particularly optimised, and it has more heat capacity than you really need, but it's a fairly easy mech to drive while you learn the ropes.

Unless a mech is honestly just bad (hello raven 4x) it's generally not worth selling them, most of them have some kind of use!

ed- just realised you probably don't have an XL300, you can do the same build (almost) with a 260 standard, or using endo and then a larger standard engine. go on smurfy and play around!

Edited by superteds, 30 December 2012 - 01:48 AM.

[Chief Justice]

Thanks for the build, but the modification costs more than 7 Mio Cbills.
The 300 XL engine alone costs 4.9 Million cbills.

I like to try it, but i have to start a new account for it. I'm not willing to spend the next 3 days in a mech i can't wield properly while being frustrated instead of having fun.

[superteds]

check my edit. If you're generally broke in the meantime, check out the trial mechs. the Stalker and Centurion are both actually fairly good.

[Chief Justice]

Okay, will try.

Can you tell me, what heat efficiency is actually "good"?

Will 1,2 be ok, or do you need 1,4 or higher to get a decent rate of fire with energy weapons?

[superteds]

most of my mechs run around 1.1-1.3 and i cope fine, but i've been playing for a fair while... probably aim for a minimum of 1.3 while you start out. bear in mind that you'll rarely be firing 100% of the time, bang on the recycle timer. in-between moving around/twisting around and moving to the next target you'll be cooling off quite a bit

[elbloom]

hold on to the ultras, use 4 mediums instead of 1 ppc. you can do serious damage with that build on over a kilometer range. and if you got a closerangefight you can add the mediums damage on top of the 2 uac.

don´t sell this mech !!!

edit: if target is moving use aimed single shots (u gotta lead), if target standing still fast click fire the uac... try it ^^ Always fire the uac´s together, not chainfire.

Edited by elbloom, 30 December 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Polojilarious]

As has been said, the K2 is really one of the most versatile mechs in the game right now.

Seeing as a 2 uac5 4 medium laser K2 is currently one of my favorite mechs, I would strongly recommend you drop the ppc for four medium lasers and either two heatsinks or two more tons of ammo (or one of each).

The xl300 is actually one of the best engines in the game. It's the lightest engine that can slot 2 engine heatsinks, and it will fit in at least one variant of any mech that isn't a commando, raven, or hunchback. It's a good idea to buy one and just swap it between whatever needs it.

As for heat efficiency, I always try to run at about 1.25, but really anything above 1.0 is viable if you keep a close eye on your heat. It pretty much comes down to personal preference.

As far as a K2 goes, just remember that whatever ballistics you have equipped will not generate very much heat compared to your energy weapons. If you're getting too hot, stop firing your lasers but keep the cannons firing.

Also keep the arm lasers on a separate fire group from the torso lasers. The arms have a much bigger vertical arc than the torso, and you'll run into a lot of situations where a slight hill will make impossible to hit someone with your torso weapons.

If you run into issues with the uac5's jamming, swap them down to normal ac5s and take more heatsinks or armour to make up the tonnage.

If you're looking for other builds entierly:

2 Ac20s just barely fit into a cat. I have never tried it myself, but I think it can work with the default engine.

2 gauss is always popular, but you might need an XL engine to carry enough ammo to last a game.

A buddy of mine ran 2 large pulse and 2 medium pulse (with a mountain of heatsinks) for a while. He did quite well with it for how bad pulse lasers are generally considered to be.

Same buddy also managed to fit two ac10s with 4 medium lasers, somehow. It also worked well.

4 large laser, as seen above.

I don't think I've ever actually seen it in play, but double LB10x is definitely possible.

And I guess you could do something with 2 ac2s and a couple of large lasers.

Really, just pick some ballistic weapons, add lasers, profit.

Edited by Polojilarious, 30 December 2012 - 03:39 AM.

[Magnarr]

Agreeing with most of the above (not going to get detailed). Replacing the PPC's with medium lasers is a relatively inexpensive change as mentioned and will allow you to sweep the target if you're not spot on and still get in some damage. I wouldn't recommend selling your very first chassis; just load it differently over time as you can and get some c-bills going. You'll eventually find a loadout you're happy with at least for the short term. We all went through the similar process after all.

That being said, in regards to your targeting issues here's a couple tips:
-The crosshair reticle is for your torso mounted weapons, and the little circle that moves independently are your 'arms'.
- Ballistics and PPC's are not instant in travel; they take time to get there. If the target is on the move laterally you'll need to place the shot ahead of them in order for it to land.

Anyway, welcome and have fun!

[Pr8Dator]

All weapons in the game takes time to master and to get good at. Then it takes more time to train to use different weapons of different speeds, even lasers, together. Its easier if you have played previous mechwarrior games but if this is your first, I would not advise you to spend Cbills or MCs on your first 100 hours. Use the trial mechs for your first 100 hours to really understand what suits your playstyle and master the weapons that you like. If you like PPCs, wait for the Awesome trial mech to cycle back. Trial mechs changes every now and then, just be patient. Take your time to train and be good at this game, getting a mech is only the first step.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 30 December 2012 - 04:00 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

PPCs are not very effective when combined with low damage high rate of fire weapons, you'd normally want a high precision alpha when using PPCs, and high DPS weapons with a lower heat output when using any AC under 10 tons. Having both is just asking for trouble, really.
One good way to use PPCs is to get two sets of energy weapons with a different range, and only use one set at a time to make it an all range mech. I'd suggest sticking a few medium pulse lasers on to go along with the PPC, and/or get two PPCs. Alternatively, get regular medium or small lasers to go along with the Ultra AC/5s. You can also use regular AC/5s instead of the Ultra AC/5s because the DPS increase isn't that high and it's only really noticeable when you fire them at the highest possible ROF. That means 2 shots per 1.7 seconds, when you hold down the fire button it's more like 2 shots per 2.5 seconds. At 2 shots per 2.5 seconds it's actually got a lower DPS than the regular AC/5 because of the jamming.

[Vassago Rain]

This is my ultracat. It works very well when it does work, which is about 50% of the time. My brother completely cloned the build, and it's doing the usual 50% for him, too. It has 9 tons of ammo, which the mechlab doesn't display, and a 'massive' 10 points of armor on each rear section, because good luck getting in the rear of my 300 degree twist.

[Barbaric Soul]

You can also turn your catapult K2 into what's known as a guassapult. Strip off the heatsinks, UACs, and PPC. Add 2 guass rifles and 4-6 tons of ammo. This is a heat-nuetral build with a very good punch at all ranges. Light mechs will generally tear you up until you learn to hit them with your guass at close range.

[Polojilarious]

Pr8Dator, on 30 December 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

All weapons in the game takes time to master and to get good at. Then it takes more time to train to use different weapons of different speeds, even lasers, together. Its easier if you have played previous mechwarrior games but if this is your first, I would not advise you to spend Cbills or MCs on your first 100 hours. Use the trial mechs for your first 100 hours to really understand what suits your playstyle and master the weapons that you like. If you like PPCs, wait for the Awesome trial mech to cycle back. Trial mechs changes every now and then, just be patient. Take your time to train and be good at this game, getting a mech is only the first step.

Really?

I don't think I've even played 100 hours of MWO, and I've been through a commando, three cicadas (one of which was purchased twice to get elite on it), two catapults, a jenner, and a dragon.

And a centurion. But we don't talk about the centurion.

And why wait a week for new trials to try out ppcs when you could easily afford them after a few games? And why would you ever tell anyone to even consider running a default awesome? Default awesome are basically the worst default mechs!

EDIT: And I suppose it warrants mentioning that all of this was done with Cbills. Nothing was purchased with MC, no premium time was used (outside the one free day penny arcade thing), no founders bonus, no hero mechs.

Edited by Polojilarious, 30 December 2012 - 04:33 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Ir's a very expensive mech to put together, and it's not 'the best ever' anymore.

[Vassago Rain]

For a gigantic sum of money, you can effectively boat 4 large lasers, which makes you an assault mech...that doesn't give the enemy an actual assault mech.

It's not as good as it sounds. Take AMS and a ton of ammo in your head, so no criticals or tons are wasted. 250 standard, dubs everywhere, and cycle fire them.

[Chief Justice]

Hi,

thank you all for your replies and tipps.
I tried the 4LL-build, but it seems i'm just terminally incompetent.
Another problem is the constant drop in frame rates and the shaking/explosion galore if i'm hit by a salvo of missiles.
Can't see anything really.

It also astounds me, how other people can build smaller mechs who are able to rip me apart in a matter of seconds, while i hit with all 4 laser 4 or 5 times, and there seems to be hardly any damage(%-drop is about 5% after 4 hits with all 4 LLs).

Maybe i'm not getting this game at all.

The safest strategy seems to be, to save up for a LRM-mech, stay behind and slam 60-75 missile-salvos at the enemies.
Unfortunately thats not how i would like to play the game at all.

Maybe this game is just not for me..which is a shame..i loved all the older MW-games to death.
Will restart with a new account, try to get the hang of it more, and buy a mech much later in the game, because i just can't figure out a build that works for me. I just get wanked every time, no matter if i stay with 4 assault mechs, i'm the first to get shot at.

Another thing that really bothers me, is the overly expensive customazation. I can't really try something out without spending millions of cbills. That just sucks. I have to play 20 matches to afford to try out something a little bit different.

Ok, will stop whining now

Thanks again guys.
Have fun.

Edited by Chief Justice, 30 December 2012 - 07:22 AM.

[AlexEss]

In this case all i can say is practise makes perfect and friends make practise a lot more enjoyable. You simply need to test your way through the weapons until you find a mix that you like. Also make sure that you try out all the trial mechs (they change ever major patch) so you get a feel for what size class you prefer.

The K2 is a good mech, but it is also a very easy to spot mech and most older players have become very good at taking them out due to the fact that people used to mount dual gauss rifles on them and dominate the field of battle. My best tip would be to join up with other people on some of the TeamSpeak servers that are around (can not remember the addresses right now) and you do not need to speak but it give you a good way to play in a group. Lone Wolfs tend to get eaten alive currently as there is no system in place yet that put up against people your own skill level. It is coming soon but until then find friends.