246 replies to this topic

[Scar]

TheRulesLawyer, on 04 March 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Sweet Jebus, I hope they don't take that page from from WoT. A chassis shouldn't be more than $5-10 at most.

...and got 23 Atlases out of 24 mechs in the match? Thanks, no.

Finally, it's not worth the effort of development - selling the most significant item for such a low price. Nobody will earn the mechs by the playing if any schoolboy can buy it just for a few bucks, which he saved on the school breakfast, and many of us can afford all 12 just for 60-120 bucks. No way for chassis to be so cheap.

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It should be a collect em all price, not a "lets lock people into once chassis" price.

Collectors do not collect cheap items - most part of them save the money for years to buy new item for their collection. You can't really be proud by your collection if absolutely most part of people have all the same.

There should be a choice, but the price of it must be high.

Edited by Scar, 05 March 2012 - 05:06 AM.

[Fiaura The Tank Girl]

NOt only to give content and access down the road, but to make players explore other options for mechs as well as make the variety larger by doing so. Put some mechs that are considered mediocre out and see who picks them up to create something unique and unexpected.
Some core mechs, sure, but we should have more down the road to look forward to and questions asked of us as to which rides we ourselves wish to see.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

...and got 23 Atlases out of 24 mechs in the match? Thanks, no.

Finally, it's not worth the effort of development - selling the most significant item for such a low price. Nobody will earn the mechs by the playing if any schoolboy can buy it just for a few bucks, which he saved on the school breakfast, and many of us can afford all 12 just for 60-120 bucks. No way for chassis to be so cheap.


Collectors do not collect cheap items - most part of them save the money for years to buy new item for their collection. You can't really be proud by your collection if absolutely most part of people have all the same.

There should be a choice, but the price of it must be high.

1) Not everyone wants to drive an Atlas
2) Its not necessarily the "best"
3) There are roles for mechs of all weight classes to fill
4) Devs have stated that you can start as any class
5) Devs have stated that you'll be able to buy any striaght off with no grind
6) Devs have stated that they want you to be able to get into your favorite mech without having to grind for a long time
7) $60-120 is what one or two AAA complete titles cost. Including hundreds of models, levels, music, and other assets.
8) Collectors collect all sorts of cheap things Stamps, baseball cards, magic cards. You name it. Sure there are some rare things, but it doesn't mean there isn't a huge cheap collection market.

Its designed as a flat system. Devs want people to be able to play the mech they want without the grind. Paying the cost of an entire game for a single virtual item is just dumb. I'd rather see every in game with an atlas for $5 (And the huge amount of money that represents going to PGI) than just a couple people who can afford a severely overpriced Atlas.

[Krubarax]

I have unlocked everything for Battlefield 3, and as soon as I did, it took a lot of fun out of the game.
Now I am just wating for the (looong overdue) DLC that has been promised.
The stravag game is almost 6 months old already!

I definantly want Mechs, weapons, modules etc to be unlockable.
It brings so much fun to a game.

Edited by GB_Krubarax, 05 March 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[SI The Joker]

Hmmmm... didn't I read something from the Devs about not being able to buy items using hard-money (real money) that would create a tactical advantage in the game?

If that's the case... I don't think it's Mechs we're going to be buying with our money... as buying an Atlas when those who can't/won't spend hard money "can't get one" would definitely be a tactical advantage, No?

[Scar]

TheRulesLawyer, on 05 March 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

1) Not everyone wants to drive an Atlas
2) Its not necessarily the "best"
3) There are roles for mechs of all weight classes to fill
4) Devs have stated that you can start as any class
5) Devs have stated that you'll be able to buy any striaght off with no grind
6) Devs have stated that they want you to be able to get into your favorite mech without having to grind for a long time
7) $60-120 is what one or two AAA complete titles cost. Including hundreds of models, levels, music, and other assets.
8) Collectors collect all sorts of cheap things Stamps, baseball cards, magic cards. You name it. Sure there are some rare things, but it doesn't mean there isn't a huge cheap collection market.

Its designed as a flat system. Devs want people to be able to play the mech they want without the grind. Paying the cost of an entire game for a single virtual item is just dumb. I'd rather see every in game with an atlas for $5 (And the huge amount of money that represents going to PGI) than just a couple people who can afford a severely overpriced Atlas.

1) Atlas, or any other Assualt - whatever. In the 9 out of 10 matches we'll get the Battles of Titans, it's for sure.
2) Actually, it IS. Because in every game with random matches you can oppose NOTHING to the brute force of fire power and armor.
3) Same problem - everybody **** the support roles in random matches. There is only one role there - try to damage and kill as many as you can. See the WoT or any other game with Random Matches.
4) Oh yeah, they said it - but now ask yourself: did they say that you can start it for FREE?
5) Of course you do! For a couple of bucks - like in the most of F2P. And that's a damn right decision, i'd say. *It seems like your brain automatically adds tag "FOR FREE" to any devs statement.
6) Let me guess - FOR FREE?!
7) It's not the P2P single player game, but F2P MMO. As example, you pay to EA/BW for SWTOR client($60) + sub every month($15). So please, don't compare F2P and P2P.
8) Yeah, but only few of them are really proud for their collection. Finally, in real life you should not only pay, but find the item - in game i can buy them all at once, just dragging to cart. And where is the place for joy of collecting? It's cheap, easy to find, it's in every hangar.

Edited by Scar, 05 March 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Garth Erlam]

By 'all 'Mechs' do you mean every 'Mech in the (MechWarrior) universe? Because I can tell you right now we won't have a few hundred 'Mechs ready for launch. ;P

[Scar]

SI The Joker, on 05 March 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

If that's the case... I don't think it's Mechs we're going to be buying with our money... as buying an Atlas when those who can't/won't spend hard money "can't get one" would definitely be a tactical advantage, No?

No, because you can get the same Atlas by the regular grind. Tactical advantage it's about things those you can buy ONLY for real money - like rounds for the gold in WoT.

[Krubarax]

AHA!
Guess what I figured out, all on my own!?
You will be able to buy Stock Mechs with in game currency - then if you want to unlock the variants, you have to pay real money for them.

I must be as smart as General Kerensky himself!

[LackofCertainty]

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

1) Atlas, or any other Assualt - whatever. In the 9 out of 10 matches we'll get the Battles of Titans, it's for sure.
2) Actually, it IS. Because in every game with random matches you can oppose NOTHING to the brute force of fire power and armor.

1.If 9/10 people are assault mechs, then the massive turtles would get picked to pieces by enemy artillery and would waddle around blind while the enemy team slowly whittled their armor down from beyond their sensor range. if everyone else in the room is an assault mech, then I imagine the one guy play a light scout would be king.
1.a) if that's not the case, then the entire design of the game that the devs have been telling us about isn't true, and this game becomes a boring piece of garbage.
1. If the devs really aren't able to balance it, then they could just put in a waiting list based on your mech type. Each team gets 3 lights, 3 mediums, 3 heavies, and 3 assasults. So people that only play assasult wait 30 minutes in queue while the people who play lights/mediums get insta-queues.

2.Being a massive semi-moblie fortress is a very powerful thing, but if your enemies can see you and you can't see them then the 16 ppcs/12 AC 20's/47 LL/89 LRMs you mount don't do anything. If your enemies can see you -and- they have access to artillery/other idf fire then you're in an even worse situation.

The devs have stressed the importance of information warfare and the various roles, so I have to believe that they put enough work into the game to make it more than "whoever has the most Assaults wins."

Edit: Damn you emoticons ruining my list!!!! I wanted b ) not


Also, I hope the devs don't do premium mechs. I like skins. I like the idea of being able to pay to unlock a mech (as long as you can unlock the same mech with c-bills) League of Legends model is the perfect F2P one. There is literally nothing that you can buy that will make you better than other players. You just get convenience or aesthetics for your dollars. There's no one complaining in League about P2W, because there's nothing you can buy that gives a mechanical edge.

Premium ammo is BS. Premium mechs (or variants) is BS. Those are the definitions of P2W

Edited by LackofCertainty, 05 March 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[Scar]

Garth Erlam, on 05 March 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

By 'all 'Mechs' do you mean every 'Mech in the (MechWarrior) universe? Because I can tell you right now we won't have a few hundred 'Mechs ready for launch. ;P

Doesn't matter - it they're cheap as popcorn. Seriously, i know - my English as ugly as Urban Mech is.

[ScrewCityChris]

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Doesn't matter - it they're cheap as popcorn. Seriously, i know - my English as ugly as Urban Mech is.

Urbies are not ugly! They are precious front line mechs who will destroy all that oppose them

I really want something to work toward. I don't necessarily like having everything unlocked right at the start. I will say though that if, instead they are going to use League of Legends model as opposed to the World of Tanks model, and release a new mech every 2-3 weeks, and just have the variants be unlock-able by exp grinding that would be cool too. It would keep me pumping (a lot) of money into the game getting the new mechs, and tons of play time grinding them all to elite.

I must collect everything!

[Scar]

LackofCertainty, on 05 March 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

1.If 9/10 people are assault mechs, then the massive turtles would get picked to pieces by enemy artillery

By what???? How much artillery you saw so far in MWO? And how often your Maus or Is-7 is dying under artillery in WoT's random?

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1.a) if that's not the case, then the entire design of the game that the devs have been telling us about isn't true, and this game becomes a boring piece of garbage.

It IS the case - just not for the Random Matches.

Quote

1. If the devs really aren't able to balance it, then they could just put in a waiting list based on your mech type. Each team gets 3 lights, 3 mediums, 3 heavies, and 3 assasults. So people that only play assasult wait 30 minutes in queue while the people who play lights/mediums get insta-queues.

Why is you want PGI's bankruptcy so hard? Force the people to WAIT??? Oh man...

Quote

2.Being a massive semi-moblie fortress is a very powerful thing, but if your enemies can see you and you can't see them then the 16 ppcs/12 AC 20's/47 LL/89 LRMs you mount don't do anything. If your enemies can see you -and- they have access to artillery/other idf fire then you're in an even worse situation.

It's a fantasy - nice clever, but fantasy.

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The devs have stressed the importance of information warfare and the various roles, so I have to believe that they put enough work into the game to make it more than "whoever has the most Assaults wins."

Again, In RANDOM?! Show me the one game where is a good coordination in random matches. "The Law of the Jungle" - that's the main and only law for Random.

Quote

Edit: Damn you emoticons ruining my list!!!! I wanted b ) not

You see? Just like the real life ruining all clever ideas about "coordination" in Random. I'm sure, devs told us truth - but not for the Random case.

So, no cheap Assaults.

Edited by Scar, 05 March 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[Scar]

ScrewCityChris, on 05 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

Urbies are not ugly! They are precious front line mechs who will destroy all that oppose them

Ah, sorry - my English as beautiful as Urban Mech is.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

1) Atlas, or any other Assualt - whatever. In the 9 out of 10 matches we'll get the Battles of Titans, it's for sure.
2) Actually, it IS. Because in every game with random matches you can oppose NOTHING to the brute force of fire power and armor.
3) Same problem - everybody **** the support roles in random matches. There is only one role there - try to damage and kill as many as you can. See the WoT or any other game with Random Matches.
4) Oh yeah, they said it - but now ask yourself: did they say that you can start it for FREE?
5) Of course you do! For a couple of bucks - like in the most of F2P. And that's a damn right decision, i'd say. *It seems like your brain automatically adds tag "FOR FREE" to any devs statement.
6) Let me guess - FOR FREE?!
7) It's not the P2P single player game, but F2P MMO. As example, you pay to EA/BW for SWTOR client($60) + sub every month($15). So please, don't compare F2P and P2P.
8) Yeah, but only few of them are really proud for their collection. Finally, in real life you should not only pay, but find the item - in game i can buy them all at once, just dragging to cart. And where is the place for joy of collecting? It's cheap, easy to find, it's in every hangar.

You're the only one adding "for free" to my statements.
1-3) Basically you're saying everything the have told is are lies. If you don't believe whats been released, that's your own problem
4) No, not specifically, but they haven't put "for free" after every statement they've ever made. "You can spend XP to level up your mech" (for free!) Its been heavily implied that you'll have a choice of at least one mech in each class as your starting mech. (for freeeeeeee!)
5) Nope, and not even what I meant. There is no level restriction or unlocks or anything. Cbill payment I'd expect to take a little while. Realy money is instant of course.
6) Actually yes from what I understand. And for free at that. At least that's what I've got from reading every single dev blog and QA.
7) Why shouldn't I compare? It gives me a basis for what the rational cost of items should be. Considering your argument seems to be that they couldn't possibly make money without selling mechs for $50+ Its a very valid comparison. If I buy every mech in the game for $60- 12 mechs. I get all the content for what I'd pay for a AAA title (which is actually expensive, but somewhat reasonable) Then they get to hit me for a couple more bucks every couple of weeks with a new chassis. Plus the other stuff like skins, boosts, etc.
8) I think you're seeking exclusivity. Status items. You're looking in the wrong place. MWO will have status items, but it looks like those will be from the loyalty point system.

[LackofCertainty]

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

By what???? How much artillery you saw so far in MWO? And how often your Maus or Is-7 is dying under artillery in WoT's random?

I actually play artillery as my primary in WoT.

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

It IS the case - just not for the Random Matches.

I only play random in WoT, and to repeat, I play artillery.

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Why is you want PGI's bankruptcy so hard? Force the people to WAIT??? Oh man...

If demand for one class outweighs all the others by a drastic margin, then you can implement incentives to get people to play other classes. See the LFG stuff in WoW. Actually the WoW comparison is almost perfect, because certain classes are overrepresented. Since they need more of certain classes (generally tanks) to fill out parties that are waiting, those classes get benefits to encourage people to play them.

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

It's a fantasy - nice clever, but fantasy.

If battlefield info is a fantasy, then the whole balance of the game goes out the window. I think that it's doable provided that there is a clear and obvious advantage to having non-assault mechs even in random queues.

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Again, In RANDOM?! Show me the one game where is a good coordination in random matches. "The Law of the Jungle" - that's the main and only law for Random.

I'll go back to my standby of league of legends. Once you get out of the noob ELO (their terminology for matchmaking rating) you start to see people filling every role needed, simply because there are obvious team benefits to doing so. Whenever I hop on LoL, I see random matchmaking groups with: 1 tank, 1 brusier/jungler, 1 mage carry, 1 physical carry, and 1 support. (granted I often am the person doing support since that's the least popular class, but my point remains valid)

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

You see? Just like the real life ruining all clever ideas about "coordination" in Random. I'm sure, devs told us truth - but not for the Random case.

See my above response. If the roles have obvious benefits then the game's meta filters down into even the densest players over time.

Scar, on 05 March 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

So, no cheap Assaults.

You're a humbug, my good man.

[Scar]

TheRulesLawyer, on 05 March 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

You're the only one adding "for free" to my statements.
1-3) Basically you're saying everything the have told is are lies. If you don't believe whats been released, that's your own problem

Did you even read about the Random and clan matches? It's only your problem - if you're so naive to believe in well coordinated Random, where firepower and armor doesn'r rule the battle.

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4) No, not specifically, but they haven't put "for free" after every statement they've ever made. "You can spend XP to level up your mech" (for free!) Its been heavily implied that you'll have a choice of at least one mech in each class as your starting mech. (for freeeeeeee!)

5) Nope, and not even what I meant. There is no level restriction or unlocks or anything. Cbill payment I'd expect to take a little while. Realy money is instant of course.
6) Actually yes from what I understand. And for free at that. At least that's what I've got from reading every single dev blog and QA.

Sorry, but naively. There is just no place for income in your model. The chassis of any class/power from the start and for free?! Yeah, sure.

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7) Why shouldn't I compare? It gives me a basis for what the rational cost of items should be. Considering your argument seems to be that they couldn't possibly make money without selling mechs for $50+ Its a very valid comparison. If I buy every mech in the game for $60- 12 mechs. I get all the content for what I'd pay for a AAA title (which is actually expensive, but somewhat reasonable) Then they get to hit me for a couple more bucks every couple of weeks with a new chassis. Plus the other stuff like skins, boosts, etc.

Because in P2P the whole player-base pays for itself. I think you need read something about F2P business model - it will answer many of your questions and dispel some naive beliefs.

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8) I think you're seeking exclusivity. Status items. You're looking in the wrong place. MWO will have status items, but it looks like those will be from the loyalty point system.

Loyalty points never repalce the REAL money. Especially if not forget that not every players and merc-corps. will be affiliated to the Houses.

[Garth Erlam]

To be clear, simply having an Assault 'Mech does not make you win. Picture a bunch of Atlas' going 54 km/h, being tracked by a scout, who is spotting for a bunch of Catapults. Hilarity ensues.

[TwitchTv Morkani]

Garth Erlam, on 05 March 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

By 'all 'Mechs' do you mean every 'Mech in the (MechWarrior) universe? Because I can tell you right now we won't have a few hundred 'Mechs ready for launch. ;P

No, (i'll modify my OP) by "all mechs" I mean all mechs that have been put into the game by the dev's. Personally I'm hoping to see one mech of each class available at launch, and the requirement to unlock the other mechs. Instead of all mechs (that the dev's have put into the game) being available from the git-go. (ie: more carrot)

It doesn't even have to be linier, but having available ALL the mech options from the begining seems like there won't be much to look forwards to.

[ScrewCityChris]

Garth Erlam, on 05 March 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

To be clear, simply having an Assault 'Mech does not make you win. Picture a bunch of Atlas' going 54 km/h, being tracked by a scout, who is spotting for a bunch of Catapults. Hilarity ensues.

I don't suppose you would be willing to let us know how much a hindrance the slow speed, twist, etc, of an Assault is in a city type environment would you? How do those battles play out?