64 replies to this topic

[nubnub]

Don't forget to check out the second hand market on ebay, might save a few $$$ since your not aiming for high-end

[Catamount]

Well Guru3D, across just games that compared the two (one or two didn't for some reason, odd for that site), averaged a difference of 6.5% between the 560TI 448 and 570 (skewed by one outlier, almost every game was between 1-4%).

Paying 15%-20% for 6-7% (1-4%?) more performance... either card's good, so you can't go wrong. I'd just go 560TI myself.

Beyond that... I agree with getting more fans (or at least one more). I tried to get you the cheapest case with a bottom-mounting for the PSU, and a top exhaust fan. If you had more money, you might even by able to spring for the 2500k instead of the 2400 for your CPU, but only if you want to overclock. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.

Edited by Catamount, 04 March 2012 - 04:15 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Catamount, on 04 March 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Well Guru3D, across just games that compared the two (one or two didn't for some reason, odd for that site), averaged a difference of 6.5% between the 560TI 448 and 570 (skewed by one outlier, almost every game was between 1-4%).

Paying 15%-20% for 6-7% (1-4%?) more performance... either card's good, so you can't go wrong. I'd just go 560TI myself.

Beyond that... I agree with getting more fans (or at least one more). I tried to get you the cheapest case with a bottom-mounting for the PSU, and a top exhaust fan. If you had more money, you might even by able to spring for the 2500k instead of the 2400 for your CPU, but only if you want to overclock. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it.

Ofc he could wait a month or two and see Kepler ;p that would be the most sane thing to do, and prices will have come down.

[Zakatak]

Actually, update.

Got a new setup:
AMD Radeon 7970 HD x4
i7-3960x 4.2GHz x2
Double Heatsink (Helm Memory Core)
Coolmaster A/AM 550PW
Holoband 0.1ms (shipping from Caprica)

Got it for 600$ or so. Link?

Edited by Zakatak, 04 March 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[Catamount]

Kepler might be something that makes a big difference here. I'm not holding my breath, given Nvidia's historical luck with die shrinks, but it is true, if there's no desire to build until today, might as well wait to see what Kepler's about

Zakatak, on 04 March 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Actually, update.

Got a new setup:
AMD Radeon 7970 HD x4
i7-3960x 4.2GHz x2
Double Heatsink (Helm Memory Core)
Coolmaster A/AM 550PW
Holoband 1ms (shipping from Caprica)

Got it for 600$ or so. Link?

does it come with a replicator?

[Chas]

Catamount, on 04 March 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

An alternative thought if you're strapped for cash:

You could always grab the edu email account of anyone who doesn't need it for this purpose, and get a student discount, legitimately. It's certainly legitimate (I really doubt MS cares who gets it, since they only give one per email), and should cost $60 instead of $120.

Because, you know, we DEFINITELY know you were absolutely kidding about your comment on a public forum to steal Windows *nudge

Catamount, on 04 March 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Keep in mind guys that he apparently lives in Canada (as indicated by the Newegg.ca remark), so US part lists are of no use.

Selection and pricing are not as good in Canada.

Here's a Newegg.ca build that slightly exceeds the budget (I think with shipping it'd be like $1030-$1040). I tried to shave where I could, but further shaving might be required if that's still unacceptable.

Case: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16811133094

PSU: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16817182131 (normally I'd say no modular on a tighter budget, but all around this is a great price for a good unit)

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16813131781 (Z68, but cheaper than any ATX P67 board I could find)

CPU: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16819115072

RAM: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16820231426

Video Card: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16814500231 (448 Core version )

Hard drive: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16822152181 (prices still jacked up; I just grabbed the cheapest thing with decent capacity)

Windows 7: http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16832116986

I'd recommend this system in a heartbeat, about the only change I'd make is to toss a slightly beefier PSU at it (but I always over-build there so that I don't have to fart around upgrading the PSU later on if I upgrade something else).

DV^McKenna, on 04 March 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

I like that build cata, however he could drop the windows 7 for 8 preview for the time being, get a 570 instead.

Honestly, I wouldn't. I can't EVER really recommend installing a beta-level OS, as you open the floodgates for compatibility issues.
That and the fact that you have to basically completely reinstall your system once the beta expires.
While I'm a computer enthusiast, things like complete system reinstalls are something I prefer to avoid at all costs *Kisses his imaging software*.

Catamount, on 04 March 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Also, isn't the Core 448 560TI just about the same as the 570? I'm not sure what I'd do with that extra money...

A 570 has 480 shader cores.
A 560-448 has 448.

Essentially it's a 570 part that has some cores that failed Q&A. So they were shut down and it was binned differently.
It's a way for nVidia to boost the returns on chip yields.

Catamount, on 04 March 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

An alternative thought if you're strapped for cash:

You could always grab the edu email account of anyone who doesn't need it for this purpose, and get a student discount, legitimately. It's certainly legitimate (I really doubt MS cares who gets it, since they only give one per email), and should cost $60 instead of $120.

Because, you know, we DEFINITELY know you were absolutely kidding about your comment on a public forum to steal Windows *nudge

Just an FYI, Microsoft is supposed to be cracking down on the whole educational license racket at some point in the near future.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Chas, on 04 March 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Honestly, I wouldn't. I can't EVER really recommend installing a beta-level OS, as you open the floodgates for compatibility issues.
That and the fact that you have to basically completely reinstall your system once the beta expires.
While I'm a computer enthusiast, things like complete system reinstalls are something I prefer to avoid at all costs *Kisses his imaging software*.

Er what?
Windows 8 is a streamlined version of 7, so far i am running it on 3 varied machines and not had a single compatability issue as yet, any drivers/hardware that works in 7 is working in 8.

And why on earth would you need to reinstall your whole system when done? have you never heard of partitioning and duel booting? just format the windows 8 drive after....

[Catamount]

In fairness, Windows 7 was release quality in beta, but I can't comment on 8.

As a rule, I don't usually use beta OSes as my main, but MS has been good at releasing polished products. I'll withhold judgement until I actually try 8. That some people report smaller footprints and better gaming performance than 7 (even if only by a bit) already makes me excited, if not surprised. 7 outperformed Vista handily in this department, and at least matched XP (beat it by 100 points, but that's not statistically significant), going by my 3dmark06 results.

Is 8 worth using as a primary OS? If people aren't reporting crashes, then it's already more stable than Vista was at release, so if used intelligently (IE save work reasonably often if it's important in case of a crash), I'd say it at least sounds like it'd work fine. Again, I'll withhold judgement until I really get to use it.

Chas, on 04 March 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

I'd recommend this system in a heartbeat, about the only change I'd make is to toss a slightly beefier PSU at it (but I always over-build there so that I don't have to fart around upgrading the PSU later on if I upgrade something else).

Yeah, the thought occurred to me. Originally I had the 650W version of that PSU in my wishlist, but it broke the budget. If the money's there, it's certainly not the worst investment.

It's funny, Rosewill PSUs used to be such cheap junk (Rosewill ANYTHING was), but they've become excellent budget units lately (the Capstone units are good, budget or not budget). Newegg's really got their house brand in order.

Edited by Catamount, 05 March 2012 - 05:40 AM.

[Chas]

DV^McKenna, on 05 March 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

Er what?
Windows 8 is a streamlined version of 7, so far i am running it on 3 varied machines and not had a single compatability issue as yet, any drivers/hardware that works in 7 is working in 8.

And why on earth would you need to reinstall your whole system when done? have you never heard of partitioning and duel booting? just format the windows 8 drive after....

It's still a beta OS and it still expires.

Also, the way your original post was structured, it sounded like you were telling them to forego buying Win7 and just using Win8.

Yes, you used "for the time being". But for a lot of people this usually translates into "Until it stops working".

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Chas, on 05 March 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

It's still a beta OS and it still expires.

Also, the way your original post was structured, it sounded like you were telling them to forego buying Win7 and just using Win8.

Yes, you used "for the time being". But for a lot of people this usually translates into "Until it stops working".

Thats exactly what i was saying, saves them money now, and they can use Win 8 untill its released when it stops working, then there are two options purchase it if the cost is right, else buy the now cheaper Win7.

[Catamount]

McKenna has a good point in one sense. There's really nothing to lose here. It's a new PC, so it's not like this will be overriding an existing OS and software.

That would seem to make the Windows 8 trial a fine choice. I mean, sure, if world-altering work is being done on the computer, I might choose a production OS, but for a mostly-gaming machine? Hell, do the Windows 8 trial for now.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Sp12, on 04 March 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Of quesitonable forum legality, but I feel Anandtech has some of the most informed and actively helpful system-builders.

http://forums.anandt...d.php?t=2192841

I like thier current build.

i5 2500K $210 AP
ASRock Z68 Pro3 $105
Patriot DDR3 1600 8GB $38
GTX 560 Ti 448 $270 AR
Crucial M4 128GB $175
Seagate Barracuda 1TB $110
Lite-ON DVD Burner $18
XFX Core 650W $75 AR
HAF 912 $50 AR
Total: $1051 AR

Unfortunately, you need a monitor, keyboard, mouse, so probably drop the SSD ( ) to help cover those. Even budget monitors are 1920*1080p today.

That's almost exactly what I recommend to people looking for a "bang for the buck" desktop.

[bawchicawawa]

Get a 7870.
http://www.tomshardw...hmark,3148.html

[Zakatak]

I expect to have my PC by the end of May. I sold my PS3 already, and I'll sell this laptop too once I get it. Then I don't have to worry about being broke (my Mazda B4000 gets like 18MPG, this is a problem for me!).

Anyway, Catamount, you are an evil sumbitch for getting me the wrong PSU. While Zotac has labelled the requirement as 500W, alot of people have had trouble with 550W PSU's not quite having enough juice. I upgraded to a 650W PSU which should be plenty (gives me a little room to upgrade to0). Only 90$, very "green", and nothing but 5 egg reviews.

Edited by Zakatak, 29 April 2012 - 08:24 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

For $90, you should put down the extra $20 for this I would say; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182073

[Catamount]

Zakatak, on 29 April 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

I expect to have my PC by the end of May. I sold my PS3 already, and I'll sell this laptop too once I get it. Then I don't have to worry about being broke (my Mazda B4000 gets like 18MPG, this is a problem for me!).

Anyway, Catamount, you are an evil sumbitch for getting me the wrong PSU. While Zotac has labelled the requirement as 500W, alot of people have had trouble with 550W PSU's not quite having enough juice. I upgraded to a 650W PSU which should be plenty (gives me a little room to upgrade to0). Only 90$, very "green", and nothing but 5 egg reviews.

Anyone having trouble running what's realistically a sub-200W GPU on a 550W PSU isn't using a 550W PSU; they're using a really crappy 350W PSU labelled as a 550W PSU

A system using this would draw less than 300W in most games, and no more than 400W in an artificial stress test (I'm talking Prime95+Furmark)

They're probably the kind of people who think this qualifies as a good PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817822003


That PSU would not only fry trying to deliver more than 300W for any period of time, but... well let's just say I wouldn't be enormously surprised if it managed to burn down an entire neighborhood in the process, while simultaneously shorting out an entire city power grid. Yes, it's really that bad (yet has 4 eggs; shows you the kind of crap people buy on the PSU market).

Vulpesveritas, on 30 April 2012 - 05:40 AM, said:

For $90, you should put down the extra $20 for this I would say; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182073

^ this

This is good advice for avid OCers, etc.

In terms of flat out performance, the Rosewill Capstone PSUs are easily the cheapest super-high end PSUs on the market, or put another way, the best-performing middle-priced PSUs on the market. You give up features (modularity, etc), but for sheer performance/price at the high end, you can't beat these units.

Edited by Catamount, 30 April 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[Shepard]

Catamount, on 30 April 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Anyone having trouble running what's realistically a sub-200W GPU on a 550W PSU isn't using a 550W PSU; they're using a really crappy 350W PSU labelled as a 550W PSU A system using this would draw less than 300W in most games, and no more than 400W in an artificial stress test (I'm talking Prime95+Furmark) They're probably the kind of people who think this qualifies as a good PSU: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817822003 That PSU would not only fry trying to deliver more than 300W for any period of time, but... well let's just say I wouldn't be enormously surprised if it managed to burn down an entire neighborhood in the process, while simultaneously shorting out an entire city power grid. Yes, it's really that bad (yet has 4 eggs; shows you the kind of crap people buy on the PSU market).

^This is true. I am using a 560ti OEM (same power draw as the 560ti 448 core, 210W @ max) and a 500W 80plus power supply. No real issues so far, except perhaps the card getting hot due to the less than spectacular reference heat sink...

[Zakatak]

I took my list to a computer shop and my options are:

Aye) Buy everything myself from NewEgg for just under 1000$, but have negligable warranty. If something breaks, I may have to send my parts out of Canada or just say "screw it" and get a new one since it is nearly as economical.

Bee) Have them order the parts for me, with free replacements if something breaks and a 3 year warranty. But the cost is 1300$, assuming the markets are playing in my favour.

I thinking I'm going with B, but selling my PS3 and laptop isn't going to be easy.

Edited by Zakatak, 02 May 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Catamount]

$300, or 30% of the build cost is a LOT to pay for what basically boils down to an extended warranty service.

Extended warranties of any kind, whether actual, or just defacto, always end up being the worse value for the end user, and the better value for whoever is selling them. If they weren't, no one would sell them


Statistically, the odds of that expenditure working in your favor are not good. Even if you were just going to replace any failed part out-of-pocket, it would take $300 in failures just for you to break even. So unless the odds are 50% of better of you seeing a $300 failure over the course of that warranty (yeah, it's not even close), odds are you won't even break even, let alone come out ahead.


IMO, just go ahead and build it. Either way, good luck with it.

Edited by Catamount, 02 May 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Zakatak, on 02 May 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I took my list to a computer shop and my options are:

Aye) Buy everything myself from NewEgg for just under 1000$, but have negligable warranty. If something breaks, I may have to send my parts out of Canada or just say "screw it" and get a new one since it is nearly as economical.

Bee) Have them order the parts for me, with free replacements if something breaks and a 3 year warranty. But the cost is 1300$, assuming the markets are playing in my favour.

I thinking I'm going with B, but selling my PS3 and laptop isn't going to be easy.

That's outrageous for an extended warranty. Especially if they're not covering things outside of warranty i.e. accidental damage, power surges, etc. Even still, anything more than a 20% upprice is not worth it.
I agree with cat, you should just build it outright.