35 replies to this topic

[Karyudo ds]

Dragon Lady, on 08 March 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Movement does generate heat: one for walking, two for running, and one per 30m jumped (3 heat minimum). It's just that when a 'Mech isn't firing a weapons, the ten heat sinks that are included in the engine's design are more than adequate to dissipate the heat generated.

Not to mention double heatsinks, whereas you would generate 1-2 heat and dissipate 20 with your basic 10 (if you had doubles of course). At that point movement heat would be unnoticeable unless you were frying already... though I would like it to be taken into account, just might not be noticeable unless they tweak how heatsinks work as yeah, even the normal ones are more than enough.

[Dragon Lady]

MaddMaxx, on 08 March 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I like it. Now can we get that translated into a Real Time First Person shooter that would equate just as well.

Sure... just let me fire up my translator:

"When a mech is just moving, it won't generate any heat, because its heat sinks are more than adequate to keep it cool, so your heat scale will read 0%, but depending upon how fast you're firing, and how you're moving, your heat scale will rise. Let's say you're in a stock Jenner, and jumping instead of running to make you a harder target, while firing off laser alpha strikes as quickly as possible.

"After one alpha strike, your heat scale will be at 23%, your targeting reticle will be flickering a bit, making it harder to hit your target, and your Mech's top speed will drop by 20 kph. After two alpha strikes, your heat scale will be at 47%, you lose another 10 kph off your top speed, your reticle is not only flickering, but tracking poorly as well, and you'll have to hit your "shutdown overide" button. After three alpha strikes, your heat scale will be at 70%, your top speed less than half of what it used to be, you occasionally lose your target lock, making you hit the "T" key to regain it, you're mashing the "shutdown override" repeatedly so you won't shut down... and your ammo might cook off, destroying your mech. After four alpha strikes, your heat scale is at 93%, an Atlas can outrun you, your no longer getting any targeting data at all, you're playing Diablo with your "shutdown override" button... on, and you'll probably blow up any second now. If you try to do a fifth alpha strike, your mech's computer, deciding you're a complete *****, will shut down the reactor automatically."

Just for comparison, if you're running in your Jenner instead of jumping, your heat scale will only rise 13% per alpha strike, allowing you to get in eight alpha strikes before you reach automatic shutdown. If you're walking in your Jenner, you heat will only rise 10% per alpha strike, giving you ten. And if you stand still, you're going to get in 15 alpha strikes, since your heat scale only rises 7% per strike... which is foolish since a Jenner's best defense is its speed.

The wise Jenner pilot, who wants to make the most of her 'Mech, will either jump in and do a full alpha strike (Lasers and SRMs) at the rear armor of a heavier mech, and then jump away while waiting for her heat scale to drop from 33% to 0%. Or she'll alternate between volleys of lasers and SRM while running as fast as possible, making sure her heat doesn't rise above 15%, which is the level when performance begins to degrade.

[Lokisonn]

Nice assesment. The tactical considerations are valid for including heat from jumping and running. If none were included, you could load out a mech with an obscene number of jump jets, close in quickly to unleash havoc and be out of there before anyone knows whats happening

[Randal Waide]

You crank your car, it heats up. You walk/run and especially jump your mech, yes.

[Randal Waide]

Environmental conditions play a role also.
Desert Planet, jungle, high solar intensity, very hot +heat.
Ice, snow, driving wind, very cold, -heat.
Standing with heat sinks submerged in water/snow -heat.
Heat is part of the gig.

[HighlandWolf]

Definitely, on hotter planets more of an issue..normally undamaged mechs with undamaged heatsinks would take care of it easily enough..firing weapons obviously changes that..

[wwiiogre]

yes exactly as table top canon states, no changes other than to make it feel right for real time

chris

[Ian MacLeary]

Hmm, just noodling on how to convert this to a real-time system:

Take the table-top values and multiply them by 10 for heat generated (and for the various 'danger points' on the heat scale). Leave the heat-dissipation capacity of heat-sinks alone - i.e., one heat-sink dissipates one unit of heat - but change the unit-time of dissipation from 10 seconds to 1 second. Adjust generated heat by recycle times for weapons, since I doubt they're going to all be 10 seconds. For movement-based heat, apply 2 heat per 10% of maximum speed per second. Targeting penalties (i.e., flickering reticules, slow arm movement, inaccurate positioning) should apply fairly quickly, while involuntary shutdowns and ammo explosions should only be triggered by a long time (5+ seconds) in the danger zone.

This will result in large spike values when alpha-striking, followed by a slow drain. If things are tuned properly and the 'mech is designed to be heat-neutral, you shouldn't have issues. If the 'mech isn't designed to be heat-neutral - like most IS 'mechs without Star League technologies - you might have to modify your firing patterns to keep yourself safe®.

[John Clavell]

Mechs should always generate heat when any movement is undertaken. The end.

[Evgeny Bear]

Hey...hmm I don't know 100% but doesn't only MASC generates heat while a mech moves?

[Larry Headrick]

Andar89, on 09 March 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

Hey...hmm I don't know 100% but doesn't only MASC generates heat while a mech moves?

No mechs generate 1 heat for walking 2 for running.
MASC doubles mechs walking speed when active, but can damage leg actuators freezing the mech's legs.

[LordDeathStrike]

autogyro, on 08 March 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I noticed in the screenshots, here that the Atlas was running at full speed, but wasn't generating any heat (0% on the heat meter).

I personally think that if your mech is running, it should generate some heat. I also hope that the use of jump jets create heat as well. Heat, and the management of heat, was always an important part of Battletech, so it would be nice to see.

traditionally regular movement does not over heat your mech, but throttle settings above 50% cause you to dissipate heat sink heat more slowly. at 100% throttle in games like mwll mech 4 or even mech 3, you heated up about 20% faster.

MASC, which is a leg muscle over drive unit for mechs to make them nearly double in speed, causes alot of heat on the other hand, you cant use it for long even with coolant flush.

[Kribson]

actually a mech that is running should also be cooled down more efficiently, because of the faster airflow along the cooling elements,
at least in small mechs, capable of running with high speed. So it would kind of neutralize the additional amount of heat produced by movement.

[LordDeathStrike]

Kribson, on 09 March 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

actually a mech that is running should also be cooled down more efficiently, because of the faster airflow along the cooling elements,
at least in small mechs, capable of running with high speed. So it would kind of neutralize the additional amount of heat produced by movement.

we arent talking near outside temps cooling here, sure if its 50 C outside, and your heat sinks are at 100C moving fast will cool them faster.

we are talking mech heats, out side ambient temp 50 C, heat sinks at 50% saturated temps 800+ C, the heat sinks are already 750 degrees hotter then the ambient air temp, going a little faster so a breeze its nestling them, aint gonna do shiat as they are still so hot that the air they are heating to cool down rushes up very rapidly creating a thermal updraft through them reguardless (note that heat sinks are mounted with verticle fins to take advantage of this, and not along the sides of the mech with horizontal fins that would be required to generate more cooling from running. also note that the heat sinks are UNDER your armor so they are protected, much like pc heat sinks are in your case, there are vents that allow air to be pulled in as the super heated air rushes out the top vents.

Edited by Mason Grimm, 09 March 2012 - 05:02 AM.
That last little bit? Not needed. Play nice!

[Kribson]

@ LordDeathStrike

I see...thanks for the detailed and perspicuous explanation. I apologize for the unelaborated comment.

[Mason Grimm]

John Clavell, on 09 March 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Mechs should always generate heat when any movement is undertaken. The end.

This.