8 replies to this topic

[Mattiator]

These are 'Mechs that aren't technically canon, despite appearing in sources that are canonical. I think this would be a great opportunity to bring in 'new' 'Mechs to the game that we haven't seen in a billion other BattleTech products.

For example, the ALI-1A Alliance.


Manufacturer: NAIS Stellar 'Mech Fabrication and Repair Complex
Model: ALI-1A
9,160,000 C-Bills
Class: Assault
Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: NAIS Special
Armor: NAIS Type 23
Engine: Vlar 300
Speed: 52.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Armament:
2 x AC/10s
1 x LRM-10
3 x Medium Lasers
BV (1.0): 1,568

It was at one time a canonical (albeit exceptionally rare) BattleMech, but since the removal of BattleTechnology from canonical sources it is no longer canon.

Another example is the OSR-9C Ostroc Mk II. Hailing all the way back from the original BattleDroids, the design would be considered 'Unseen' as it is taken directly from Macross. As it stands, the design has been illegal since BattleTech 2nd Edition due to mounting two of it's three jump jets in each arm.


Manufacturer: Unknown
Model: OSR-9C
Class: Heavy
Mass: 60 tons
Chassis: Unknown
Armor: Unknown
Engine: Pitban 240
Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Yes (type unknown)
Armament:
2x Large Lasers
2x Medium Lasers
2x SRM-2
BV (1.0): ?
BV (2.0): ?

Many more apocryphal 'Mechs can be found in the MechWarrior IV MekPak sets, such as the Wildcat and Warthog, though few could be considered part of the timeline. Say what you will about apocryphal 'Mechs importance, but I think it would be an exceptional way to bring surprising designs that no one really knows without resorting to Ragnarok-style nonsense (an apocryphal 'Mech from the MechAssault series). In the end, more 'Mechs = more fun, right?

[Polymorphyne]

... and why would we want Alliances and Ostroc 2s instead of the several hundred non-apocryphal mechs?

[Dlardrageth]

All really a matter of definition what is apocryphical or not, isn't it? Let me quote Sarna.Net to illustrate my point:

Quote

[...]

• Yen-Lo-Wang was a famous ArenaMech in the Solaris Games. Originally a CN9-A that underwent a series of modifications to a variety of customized configurations over time, it was occasionally reported as the "CN9-YLW" but this is explicitly^[17] not considered to be a proper variant. The CN9-YLW designation is associated with one particular modification that drops the LRM to upgrade the autocannon to an Autocannon/20 with three tons of ammunition and add a Hatchet to the left arm. BV (2.0) = 957^[18][19]

I bolded the important part there, go by such strict standards and outlaw the "YLW", and you'll have an epic whinefest plus major internet hate coming your way. From all the wannabe Solaris warriors and munchkins at least. Thus I'd be careful to throw the "apocryphal Mechs" down the well so quickly...

[Polymorphyne]

The YLW is a one off, if it does get used it should realistically be given to a single player who only does solaris.

My point is including the alliance or ostroc 2 would mean NOT including a more common, standard, canon mech that most people would rather have.

[Victor Morson]

I am entirely alright with entirely brand new 'mechs, or semi-canon ones (NOT Dark Age stuff!) appearing in MWO. I'm a huge fan of canon, but I just have one simple argument to fully endorse this:

MechWarrior 4 introduced several brand new, never before seen 'mechs. This was followed by MechCommander 2 doing the same. The majority of these designs entered canon, and were some of the coolest looking fan favorites in the game. The Uziel has been on the cover of countless source books so it might be hard to remember it began as a MW 'mech.

As such, if they want to take any semi-canon designs or make entirely new ones up and introduce them to the timeline, I say more power to them. There's tons of fan favorites out there from existing selections - and I suspect they'll address them first as the core - but I positively don't want to discourage the dev team from making some new designs as well, in particular with their talented conceptual artists.

It'd be even better if any of these new 'mechs were added to canon like the MW4/MC2 chassis before them. But yeah, I'd love to see what they come up with and welcome any new additions to the BTU they might have in mind.

[TrentTheWanderer]

Victor Morson, on 10 March 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

The Uziel has been on the cover of countless source books so it might be hard to remember it began as a MW 'mech.

The Uziel is a BIG favorite of mine, and I would be really disappointed if it didn't appear in MW:O

I don't feel like discounting content is ever in the best interest of the gaming community (so long as it can be implemented functionally and with balance). It can only exclude people and ideas, and that isn't much fun.

[Victor Morson]

TrentTheWanderer, on 28 April 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

The Uziel is a BIG favorite of mine, and I would be really disappointed if it didn't appear in MW:O

I don't feel like discounting content is ever in the best interest of the gaming community (so long as it can be implemented functionally and with balance). It can only exclude people and ideas, and that isn't much fun.

The big problem with the Uziel is it isn't manufactured for almost two decades past when MWO is set. I'm in the camp that doesn't want it to show up unless the timeline catches up, but don't take that the wrong way: I love the Uziel.

They've always been concerned about retcon'ing in new 'mechs or anything into canon, and I can understand why. Partially why I was in favor of the idea of taking semi-canon sources like the UK 'mechs and allowing them into the game: They've got a basis to exist in 3049 and still give the creative team at PGI free reign to do art and variants for them at will. It could even push a few of the cooler ones into existing as full-canon.

Depending on the source, semi-canon can be good. I know these things have a bad rap due to the silly non-canon designs seen around the net, but say the MechForce 'mechs were pretty well balanced and aren't out of place at all, really. Some are even underpowered, including (arguably) the Alliance from the OP; none of them feel like fan fiction uber designs.

Also, the Ostroc Mk II would open the door for the return of some form of Ostroc, as it's an unseen 'mech, that could feature radically shifted enough artwork that it wouldn't be an issue.

[TrentTheWanderer]

Victor Morson, on 28 April 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

The big problem with the Uziel is it isn't manufactured for almost two decades past when MWO is set.

That IS a big problem...

I guess I can hope for an X-Men style time warp or some other overt plot device...

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I've argued that they ought to put in mechs with the unseens stats if they can't get them in any other way. Many of those mechs were icononic for a reason - they played well. Make up new names and let FD loose. I'm pretty sure theyed be retconned. Mechforce Uk came up with a number of good mechs for this time period, I've played them on TT. They've helped keep the game going in the UK and the models are good.