8 replies to this topic

[Sir Crazy]

This topic is about objective based maps:

It has been posted that a team of mixed mechs working together should beat out a team of all assault mechs who are not working together. But would happen if a team of all assault mechs actually worked together?

I imagine that the assault group would travel as a pack, one or more would have the advanced sensors to avoid getting ambushed. Some would carry long range weapons for snipers and others would be set up for close in brawling. Sure the other team may be able to locate the group rather easily with their little scout mech but what would they be able to do about it? Anyone dumb enough to charge in alone would get destroyed in seconds. If the other team tries an all-out assault they would be out gunned. The assaults could charge the objective and take it out before the other team could take out the assault mechs. This was a common tactic in MW4 and it worked reasonably well.

We will have to see how the game plays to know for sure how effective a good team of assaults would be.

Also what about the opposite? Imagine a team full of light mechs each with one or more of the following commander perks:

Call Air Strike – Calls in an air strike that does AOE damage in a straight line
Call Artillery – Calls in a land based artillery bombardment on to a target area
Call Naval Bombardment – Calls in Naval artillery bombardment that has a larger and more powerful result than regular artillery
Call UAV – Calls a UAV that passes overhead of the battlefield and relays ALL enemy positions to the command pilot
Call Predator Drone – Drops a heavy explosive device on a targeted area.

In theory, they could run to the other end of the map and take out the objective before the other team knows what's going on. In MW4 this was a common strategy with light mechs carrying artillery beacons.

I really do look forward to all the crazy team compositions that players will come up with. It's one of those unpredictable things that makes each match so different. The vast variability is what I like about MechWarrior.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Well the most obvious problem to an "assualt only' lance or group would be the abysmal lack of mobility (Chargers, being the only exception, and I don't see much getting accomplish with 5 small lasers...). While you'd also naturally want at least one Lance to be dedicated 'mech killers, since the combat will be focused on 'mech on 'mech action, you'd also want at least one lance dedicated to fulfilling mission objectives as quickly and efficiently as possible.

But at the same time, when you're up against a group of regulars -- the offbeat or "crazy" composition that you described may be extremely effective through the element of surprise. I'd love to see the game evolve into less of a frag fest and which team has the superior pilots, but more of an intricate chess match where both a commanders roles, specialized lances and a high risk - reward engagements dictate the outcome and ultimate success of any unit. Use your lance of dedicated 'mech killers and very skilled pilots in their heavies and assaults to distract and make the opposition focus their attention to them while your lance of mediums and lights go in for the objective to sweep the game out from under their feet without them even knowing what hit them!

Edited by mwhighlander, 27 March 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[Chinook]

Sir Crazy, on 27 March 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Also what about the opposite? Imagine a team full of light mechs each with one or more of the following commander perks:

Call Air Strike – Calls in an air strike that does AOE damage in a straight line
Call Artillery – Calls in a land based artillery bombardment on to a target area
Call Naval Bombardment – Calls in Naval artillery bombardment that has a larger and more powerful result than regular artillery
Call UAV – Calls a UAV that passes overhead of the battlefield and relays ALL enemy positions to the command pilot
Call Predator Drone – Drops a heavy explosive device on a targeted area.

It is probably very safe to assume the damaging strikes you can call in; Air strike, Artillery, Naval Bombardment, Predator Drone. Will all share a global cooldown for your team. Otherwise you could get whole teams of lights like you said dropping everything at once which would be stupid. So I doubt the light mech and commander support zerg would work.

EDIT: PGi did state somewhere they will share a global CD for your team. go find it yourself.

Edited by Chinook, 27 March 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[Darkrasp]

I would think that a given mission would have a weight limit preventing every player on the team from choosing a 100-ton 'mech. If you're only allowed 600-800 tons for a 12-mech company, then any assault 'mechs would have to be offset by (hopefully) complementary mediums and lights.

[GrimFist]

This train of thought bugs me.

This is not Nitendo power up time. This is old school Mech Warrior, with all the beneifts of modern technology for an online experience that makes you wish you had the cooling vest. How many of you rookies know what that is? You know why airboys dont come by. We shoot them with our mech sized guns. Drink their beer and dance with their women before they land. I give em all my respect for doing the grunty dirty work I dont want. I hand it to the grunts to stand and deliver while I'm stomping, smashing, and making pink mist and bone chips with my browning machine guns or keeping it nice and neat with a few lasers.Most of them just leave these days.

< He Steve... can you go get me some power up juice>

You know what I say. Stomp on Steve and his power up juice. I want mechs and mech parts littering the battlefield. Go to the old school BT, I realize many of you can't picture what a locust is, or what the much of the other older stuff is or god forbid bear the thought of climbing in something not as cool looking as a MadCat (yes it is cool looking and I love it). Let's cut our teeth and let all you point and click generation types worry about heat, ammo, and just staying away form the bigger guy with the bigger gun unless you can run and gun.

Battle Tech aka Mech Warrior was about the noble or not so noble bad boys knocking down anybody and anything. Evem the lowly locust pilot was a mech warrior and more valuble than a Long tom or Manticore crew. I realize not everyone gets all the glory and the groupies of mech warriros. But let's all be mech warriors before we worry about combined arms or calling in air strikes or power ups.

Fight like a mech warrior or get popped and stomped.

As for 12 lights trying to fight bigger guys, not going to happen. I can see 12 lights vs 12 lights. Not 12 100 tonners against 12 lights unless we start handicappping those a littel short in change and sense.

As for everythign else. Watch it baby, my Atlas can dance and double tap at the same time.

If it is worth shooting once, shoot it twice.

Before airsrikes and nintendo powerups. Give me a Hatcetman5S - everthing else melee is a knock off outside of the charger and that just the jolly green giant dressed in armor playing a little football.

Semper Fi

Grim

[Tyzh]

GrimFist, on 27 March 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Blarg blarg blarg!

Semper Fi

Grim

That was... enlightening.

As for the OP, I'd imagine the full assault team would suffer too greatly form a lack of mobility to be viable against a balanced team, and conversely the all light team would suffer too greatly from a lack of firepower. Unless they were making extensive use of odd designs... maybe. A team of 12 CGR-1A1s against against 12 Urbies would be... an awesome sight.

Edited by Tyzh, 27 March 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Siilk]

Judging from my TT and MW experience, team of 12 assaults would be, well, most successful, unless all of the assault's pilots are inexperienced or their objectives would require some lightning-fast movement between nav points. Speed is usually not that important if pilot knows what he is doing and the group itself has diverse loadouts, without focusing on long-range or short-range completely. That's why BV limitation is the best possible way to prevent MWO from becoming assault-fest. Without economical limit, most teams would be composed of 8-10 assaults and 2-3 scouting lights.

[Dlardrageth]

If you make the objective-based gameplay also heavily focused on these objectives, it could give enough of an edge for "speedy" Mechs to be the better alternative over a walking gun emplacement. Let's look a theorethical scenario...

Match plays on a big enough map that slow assaults would actually have to think about where to moveor eneding up wasting most of the match time. Spread out over the map are a total of 5 com stations that give you the capability to interface with off-map units. For calling in artillery support, air strikes, recon drone sweep, etc. If you manage to "cap" all 6, you will effectively negate the opponent commander's ability to use these. Also capturing those is a secondary objective. Primary objective is whatever else, let's assume no tertiary objective is given.

So waht will the commander of the full-assault company do? Sent off one assault Mech each to a Com station? And risk them getting wasted one after another by a lance of roving fast light+medium Mechs the enemy sends around those? And also that way effectively halving his available firepower for the primary objective? Or will he keep everybody together, because with assault Mech speed they won't be able to catch up again, if dislocated over the map? And thus risk losing all his commander abilities for external support due to the enemy capping all Com Stations after 2 minutes? As speed would be an issue here, I think I'd bet on a team not being 12 slow assault Mechs. Even 11 assaults and 1 light scout might still be in a bit of pickle with this setup.

At the end of the match the assault company might still succeed in killing off half the enemy team while only suffering one loss, but... if only 20% of XP/bonus payout arederived from inflicted damage and 80% from reaching objectives... it would mean the "lighter" team might still do better. Despite having inferior firepower in terms of sheer DPM.

[synergy453]

Dlardrageth, on 28 March 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

If you make the objective-based gameplay also heavily focused on these objectives, it could give enough of an edge for "speedy" Mechs to be the better alternative over a walking gun emplacement. Let's look a theorethical scenario...

Match plays on a big enough map that slow assaults would actually have to think about where to moveor eneding up wasting most of the match time. Spread out over the map are a total of 5 com stations that give you the capability to interface with off-map units. For calling in artillery support, air strikes, recon drone sweep, etc. If you manage to "cap" all 6, you will effectively negate the opponent commander's ability to use these. Also capturing those is a secondary objective. Primary objective is whatever else, let's assume no tertiary objective is given.

So waht will the commander of the full-assault company do? Sent off one assault Mech each to a Com station? And risk them getting wasted one after another by a lance of roving fast light+medium Mechs the enemy sends around those? And also that way effectively halving his available firepower for the primary objective? Or will he keep everybody together, because with assault Mech speed they won't be able to catch up again, if dislocated over the map? And thus risk losing all his commander abilities for external support due to the enemy capping all Com Stations after 2 minutes? As speed would be an issue here, I think I'd bet on a team not being 12 slow assault Mechs. Even 11 assaults and 1 light scout might still be in a bit of pickle with this setup.

At the end of the match the assault company might still succeed in killing off half the enemy team while only suffering one loss, but... if only 20% of XP/bonus payout arederived from inflicted damage and 80% from reaching objectives... it would mean the "lighter" team might still do better. Despite having inferior firepower in terms of sheer DPM.

This sounds really awesome! After reading this Role-Warfare makes more sense to me and the importance of good communication comes to my mind.
I Hope they gonna built in some voice communication!