16 replies to this topic

[Tahawas Pitts]

Has any thought been given to the effects of having the occasional failed launch from a Dropship plummeting onto the battlefield from LEO? I can't recall any level three rule in Battletech universe that dealt with the efffects of having 100 tons of non-functional mech impacting but the effects would be spectacularly bad for anything near where it came down.

The concept of dropping objects from orbit has been used in Sci-fi for decades, including in that other wandering refugee from Freedonia, Shadowrun. Obviously we're not talking a mass extinction sized crater, but it is something that should be looked at.

[Zarkan]

Considering the cost and rareness of assault 'mechs I doubt anything short of losing the drop ship would make them ditch even a non functional one. As for Kinetic Bombardments their a No-no overall in the Btech universe both for the Innersphere and the clans.

[Tahawas Pitts]

Mechs get damaged in entry by various things, poor luck, aerospace fighters, a bad exit from the dropship. Did you not see them drop the Atlas out of the dropship in the video?

[pursang]

Nah, I'd rather not have random occurances impede my gameplay.

[Zarkan]

From a game play perspective it's a moot point their aren't as far as we know active aerospace fighters and even if there where their not going to allow you to lose your 'mech before your even allowed to control it.

[CobaltRaptor]

Yeah kinetic bombardments are a no-no, about the only factions that would do it intentionally would be the WoB. That said if an assault mech had a bad drop or got winged by aerospace fighter, it would smash any unfortunate person that was underneath it. I, however would much prefer no random occurences causing me to lose a mech, no matter how much damage its crash would cause.

Edited by CobaltRaptor, 12 March 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[BarHaid]

Tahawas Pitts, on 12 March 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

The concept of dropping objects from orbit has been used in Sci-fi for decades, including in that other wandering refugee from Freedonia, Shadowrun.

I love you for this. Sometimes the computer game crowd gets a little overwhelming for a duffer like me.


And while the mech drop video was from in-atmosphere, I would love to eventually have LEO capability. Any time you get bad lag or a server "hiccup", it defaults to a cinematic of your mech having a catastrophic accident or getting shot up by aerospace fighters.

[Felicitatem Parco]

It's true that, in this time of BattleTech history, orbital bombardment is forbidden by the general rules of war that the Houses actually follow.

However, it's also true that not all Drop-Insertion jetpack harnesses work 100% of the time and Mechs can be shot at as they fall... so on a 3-drop mission I think it should be possible to shoot at a Mech as it's in the process of dropping hot, damaging its jetpack harness, and watching it free-fall for the last 200 feet of its descent. They do have to slow down before they land, so that's a good time to pop their harnesses.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 12 March 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[VeiledMalice]

What you saw in the teaser wasn't LEO - it was quite obviously in atmosphere, as you could hear wind whipping past. What you actually saw was a high-altitude drop, so terminal velocity applies, meaning depending on local gravity, a man-shaped object is only going to be moving so fast as gravity and air friction cancel out further acceleration. A misdrop from altitude would catastrophic to the mech involved and anything directly underneath, but we're not talking about orbital bombardment here.

[Lyon]

I know this is rankest heresy, but I'd pass up piloting a Mech (see, told ya, heresy) for the chance to fly a Seydlitz around popping your jump harnesses.

1 large laser vs. a barely-armored jump pack, no contest. Your screams on comms as you drop 10,000 meters: priceless. Yeah, I'd go flying if I had the chance.

[verybad]

Prosperity Park, on 12 March 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

It's true that, in this time of BattleTech history, orbital bombardment is forbidden by the general rules of war that the Houses actually follow.

No it's not. The Ares Conventions were dropped at the beginning of the Succession Wars and never reagreed to by house leaders. They're not done post 2nd succession war very often because everything that was worth orbital bombing by then was already glass. There are no "general rules of warfare" so much as tradition. The 3rd Succession war was more like 100 years of raids, without any big gains or losses. Hanse Davion dumped that on it's head when he took about 1/3 of the Capellan Confederation during the 4th Succession War, You can bet the Cappys would have busted out the nukes if the Feddies went much further however, as their very survival as a nation was at stake.

Other than nukes, there were no orbital capable weapons post 2nd succession war however. (other than pushing a big rock onto the planet, but that surprisingly didn't happen much.)

Edited by verybad, 12 March 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Zarkan]

Considering they didn't bust out WMD's during the clan invasion?

[verybad]

Well the Smoke Jaguars glassed a city (Turle Bay). Orital bombardment of cities was strictly prohibited by the Ares Conventions...

The IS forces were concerned that using WMDs would make the Clans not bid away their warships, as was their custom (though not their rule)

The only reason the IS didn't get conquered is because the Clanners fought battles well, and wars like Bart Simpson.

Again, there were no active treaties preventing the use of nukes, just some well based fears, as possbly over 1000 planets had been depopulated during the earlier succession wars. The Clanners had similiar histories, as they had an extremely bloody foundation.

Edited by verybad, 12 March 2012 - 11:46 PM.

[Seabear]

In a game that seems to be taking the position that one has responsibily for the success or failure of ones's actions, such a situatuion would be counter-productive. Who gets chosen for the long drop and sudden stop? To me, it just doesn't make sense.

A heavy weight falling far enough does create quite an impact - witness the Kinetic kill bombs of the Iraqi war. They are a ton of concrete in a JDAM casing. Very destructive of the target with little colateral damage. I can imagine 100 tons from several miles up.

[Zakatak]

If you dropped an Atlas out of a dropship, and said Atlas has a terminal velocity of 300m/s, it would hit the ground with 9GJ. Enough to cause splash damage? Not really. But anything at all that is sitting under it should be completely flattened.

BTech doesn't really have anything WMD worthy. The biggest thing is the Peacemaker missile, and that is 500kt (300 less then the Topol-M, in Russian service). But I suppose some heavy naval lasers and PPC's might make for some minor glassing.

Edited by Zakatak, 13 March 2012 - 07:09 PM.

[Semyon Drakon]

I got the impression that orbital bombardment was one of the off board artillery types available to a commander, though how that's implemented when Comstar and Wolf's Dragoons are the only warship equipped entities in the IS at this stage. (that said the Dragoon's warships are stashed in the periphery somewhere)

I also get the impression from the fluff that only tactical Nuclear weapons were even remotely available. If you read 'Ideal war' it deals with small yield weapons being used in a tactical battle between WoB and the Knights of the Inner Sphere. Certainly there's no suggestion of larger strategic weapons being around anymore.

The Clans don't use Nukes because they have battleships, Edo was destroyed with lasers and missiles, not with nuclear weapons as the Clans do not use them since the Wolverine's used a nuke on a genetics repository.

Also if you are in a Union class dropship, they are heavily armed enough that rather than dropping a valuable Atlas from LEO, why not just do a flyby and shoot up the target instead?

Semyon

[Fachxphyre]

i actually giggled to myself a little at the thought of an atlas accidentally becoming a "rod from god" and taking out a large portion of a city block between the energy from the impact plus the assured spectacular explosion from the obliterated fusion core. yet another reason to have jump jets!