64 replies to this topic

[Trogusaur]

I understand if some of you don't want to go along with this, especially since the idea is relatively alien to BT. This has made me wonder since MW2, and there hasn't been a legitimate system to answer since. My question is: what should be done about any free tonnage not used on a chassis? Perhaps you have run into an awkward situation in which you just tuned your engine, leaving you with .25 tons of nothing to use on. Assuming armor is implemented in tenths of tons like the previous games, what happens to that left over .05? Consider another scenario where your weapons loadout in the mechlab is limited at the moment, and you are unable to add any weapons (in order to balance tonnage) without sacrificing an exorbitant amount of armor, and the only compromise is to leave extra space alone. Perhaps you simply don't want anything extra on your chassis, and are content without fully using maximum tonnage.

In the previous games, the mentality was that if you didn't use every last increment of tonnage, nothing happens, and you are slightly shorthanded. Personally, I think it would make sense for a 50 ton Centurion using only 45 tons to be faster than its parent variant, considering how the engine has five tons less to keep moving. Even with the same engine size, it is under considerably less strain from the free weight, allowing the 'mech to exceed its normal top speed. I think 'mechs should get slight speed bonuses for stripping weight, like in Armored Core. Yes, the maximum load on the Centy may be 50, but why should it have to hit 50 every time? Granted, the bonus would definitely not outshine any engine upgrade by any standard, but at least give solace to those 5/100ths of a ton that never saw the light of day. This is not meant to be a great game changer, defying the established rules of BT. Rather, it is for the player who decides one more Large Laser is a bit too much heat to handle, and just wants an alternative.

If not, what should be done about the extra space? Or should there be options to at least counteract odd tonnage surplus, such as microlasers? If you have another suggestion other than the already stated, let's hear it!

Edit: I took the liberty of adding a simple yes/no question that is more pertaining to the topic.

Edited by Lord Trogus, 15 March 2012 - 08:14 PM.

[Zyllos]

I say you receive no benefit of having wasted space.

The way I see it, the mech is rated as a specific tonnage, therefore it's performance is based off that tonnage, no matter the internal and external structure. Basically, that wasted space is non-essential tonnage on the mech that provides no benefit.

[Bluey]

I changed my vote what Zyllos says seems more logical

Edited by Bluey, 14 March 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[Namwons]

ive never played table top, but is it legal on Solaris, if say i take a Vulture swap out the lrms to 15, lose some armor, to get under 55 tons, could i enter into medium matches?

[verybad]

Slight bonus to top speed/acceleration, but make it also slightly easier to knock the mech down, as the Gyro is designed for a particular mass, and the mech ain't that mass.

Following the exact TT rules religiously is wasting a good opportunity. The TT rules aren't necessarilly how it MUST! happen, they're designed for simple simulation in a (fairly) fluid manner using dice and pencil and paper.

That being said, I doubt this will be adressed at release, but it's an interesting enough possibility that it might be added in the future.

Edited by verybad, 14 March 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Namwons]

another good option, increased torso twist rate, would give better torso/arm speed convergence

Edited by Namwons, 14 March 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[osito]

If i had extra space i would max out armor. If the armor is at max and i still had extra tonnage i should not get any extra boost.

[RecklessFable]

Logical Argument:
Why wouldn't a lighter machine move faster? It should, at least, affect jump jets.

Game Dev Arument:
KISS and have no effect.

[TheRulesLawyer]

If you have a 50 ton mech with a 300 rating engine you go 90km/h. If you drop 5 tons of weapons, etc you sould just recalculate your new speed based on your new tonnage- about 100km/h

Easy enough and it makes sense. so reason not to use fractional accounting in a video game.

[Fachxphyre]

no benefit, efficiently utilizing all available tonnage should be the ideal.

[Trogusaur]

RecklessFable, on 14 March 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Logical Argument:
Why wouldn't a lighter machine move faster? It should, at least, affect jump jets.

This. And if anyone is worried about heavier 'mechs running a lighter load for the sake of speed, don't. Assaults have 3x the size hitboxes as compared to a true light 'mech. Yes, the 'mech was designed to carry the loadout of its specified weight, but if there is free weight, would it not make sense for the 'mech to run more efficiently without extra tonnage? How, then, would you account for the "nothingness"? It is nothing, just free weight.

[Name140704]

I clicked on everything. I guess I didn't help the discussion.

[SnowDragon]

You keep working it until it's the right ********* tonnage. And if they're gonna llow mechs to be the wrong tonnage, they'd better get no advantages.

[The Cheese]

I want 900 micro lasers on my Atlas. (I didn't vote for this, just for the record)


Since the game is a sim, a little realism would dictate that you should get a little extra speed if you're under-weight. Power to weight ratios and all that.

I would like to be able to fill out that tiny bit of extra space with a little extra armour too. MW4 allowed you to put your armour up in .1 tonne increments to to a max amount of armour per chassis section. Despite the complaints about the MW4 MechLab system, I really did like the way that armour was handled. It allowed you to use up that little bit of extra space (or gain a little extra space to install that one last small laser).

[Pvt Dancer]

Only in a old Mechwarrior game would they do something dumb like break armor down to tenths instead of full ton = 16 or half ton = 8. I mean... is each tenth worth 1.6 points of armor? Sheesh.

You low-ball your mech's tonnage, to bad. No advantage. Specially if you some how manage to get less than a half ton.

Now, dropping alot of tonnage (strip off a weapon, forget to load ammo. replace armor, ect) that might normally give a speed boost... well, if they have the game set up to recalculate your speed because your currently light, fine. But I do not want them wasting resources to have to do this because someone is being... dumb.

If your running a 80 ton mech and your on purpose running it at 70, your gimping yourself. Just run a 70 and be done with it.

[CyrusKederk]

I say use the pen and paper model if u have the free tonnage you can upgrade the engine for better speed and that being the only way to improve speed (if the tonnage required for upgrade is available) otherweise it is just wasted space to be filled with armor or ammo etc...

[ZnSeventeen]

I personally like the extra speed, but I am flexible. If you have .5 tons missing, then your speed really isn't going to increase, and logically the mech is made to go a certain speed, regardless of weight, but a small boost could be cool. And for the no bonus option, it is not just MW2-4, it is TT, MC, MC2 as well that give no bonus for less tons. (So, there is significant precedence.)

[Parhelion]

TheRulesLawyer, on 14 March 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

If you have a 50 ton mech with a 300 rating engine you go 90km/h. If you drop 5 tons of weapons, etc you sould just recalculate your new speed based on your new tonnage- about 100km/h

Easy enough and it makes sense. so reason not to use fractional accounting in a video game.

Interesing idea you've spawned in my mind. Do people do this? Is it possible? What if you could just drop the biggest motor is the smallest mech (think drag racer style), strip out everything including weapons, and leave just an AMS system or somethign on there. Then just turn that baby in to a lightning fast recon unit. That would be interesting, IMO.

[LordDeathStrike]

well then, a lesson on how mechs actually move.

the engine generates electrical energy in the form of mega/gigawatts.

this power is used for things like fireing weapons and powering the mechs artificial muscles, mechs dont have anything youve seen before for moving systems, they are instead a skeleton covered in myomer muscle fibers and then further wrapped in armor. the neuro helmet interface system allows the pilots motor control brain waves to control the mechs movement directly.

so what are the other cockpit controls for? the sticks are for weapons fireing and management, the throttles are for setting speed, so the pilot doesnt have to worry about thinking of running or walking when trying to fight. the reticles follow the pilots head and eye movement to stay on target, and the foot pedals allow for more accurate torso twisting placement, especially on mechs that allow 360 rotations.

to sum up, extra open tonnage wont make your leg muscles work better, your engine still has the same output to drive them with, a half ton off of a 50 ton mech isnt gonna make it zoom faster.

[Trogusaur]

LordDeathStrike, on 14 March 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

to sum up, extra open tonnage wont make your leg muscles work better, your engine still has the same output to drive them with, a half ton off of a 50 ton mech isnt gonna make it zoom faster.

Exactly, the engine's output is still the same, but the frame itself is now lighter. Your legs don't "magically work better"; instead, they have less resistance to fight against, just like running down a hill. Thus, the 'mech is capable of moving faster at the same output level.

It is like going from wearing swimming trunks in a swimming pool, then switching to a speedo. Although ugly as hell, the speedo frees up much resistance from drag, allowing you to cut through the water more efficiently. Same applies to mass and force required to move an object in physics. (minus the ugly part)

Edited by Lord Trogus, 14 March 2012 - 11:02 PM.