19 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

Not until MASC. And i suppose they have quite some higher priority things on their list..

Edited by CyclonerM, 25 May 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[101011]

I imagine the Flea will be equivalent to the Locust anyways, as speed does not particularly help when the 'Mech is made of paper.

[DEN_Ninja]

101011, on 25 May 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

I imagine the Flea will be equivalent to the Locust anyways, as speed does not particularly help when the 'Mech is made of paper.

Actually because of HSR and hit detection, speed would make the Locust and Flea pretty untouchable.

Karl stated in layman's terms that Speed * Ping is roughly the marigin of error for HSR.

That is the reason for the hard speed limit and why masc can't be implemented because light/fast mechs would break HSR.

It would be the return of the Undying ravens. Except in 20 ton form.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 25 May 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[Koniving]

Could release Flea with non-functioning MASC...

[DEN_Ninja]

Koniving, on 25 May 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Could release Flea with non-functioning MASC...

Because the community needs something whine about right ? Non Functioning Masc = More Whine Material

[Koniving]

Tichorius Davion, on 25 May 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Because the community needs something whine about right ? Non Functioning Masc = More Whine Material

They'll whine anyway.
But a Flea means you aren't screwed when someone brings a Locust... no one has a commando, and the other team got a Firestarter.

Fleas + Locusts means about double the chances of getting a 20 ton with a 20 ton.
Plus Fleas have better hardpoints.

[DEN_Ninja]

Koniving, on 25 May 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

They'll whine anyway.
But a Flea means you aren't screwed when someone brings a Locust... no one has a commando, and the other team got a Firestarter.

Fleas + Locusts means about double the chances of getting a 20 ton with a 20 ton.
Plus Fleas have better hardpoints.

I ain't the best pilot but i've got 14 kills and 7 deaths in my locust 3M. Locusts are cool yo.

But the flea would be nice to have for a fun mech.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The Flea was not the only Mech to incorporate MASC, but it was one of the fastest chassis to have on the Battle Field.

- Specifically designed to rapidly move to contact, gather intelligence, and get out unseen. Often able to outrun incoming missiles.

When role warfare arrives this chassis could be released, although as others have stated, without MASC. The last I heard the speed cap was up near 170 to180 some kph, so even without MASC this little speed demon may have a role to fill.
- Add in the future 'Deployable' sensor elements and we may have a specialized duty for this Mech.
- Outfit it with TAG and the shear size or lack of size makes it a very difficult target to locate.

So we just may see it being fielded.
9erRed

[GLIZZY GULPER]

Do we really need another unused 20 tonner?

[101011]

Tichorius Davion, on 25 May 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

speed would make the Locust and Flea pretty untouchable.

Tell that to the Locusts I reliably one-shot in my Jagermech. They are by far the easiest light 'Mech to kill.

[Roadbeer]

Tichorius Davion, on 25 May 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Because the community needs something whine about right ? Non Functioning Masc = More Whine Material

Why not, we had the 3L for months w/o ECM. But that was when the game was in BETA.


Wait....

[Iqfish]

Yea because picking a 20 ton light mech is a clever decision in mwo.

[Tesunie]

9erRed, on 25 May 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

Greetings all,

The Flea was not the only Mech to incorporate MASC, but it was one of the fastest chassis to have on the Battle Field.

- Specifically designed to rapidly move to contact, gather intelligence, and get out unseen. Often able to outrun incoming missiles.

When role warfare arrives this chassis could be released, although as others have stated, without MASC. The last I heard the speed cap was up near 170 to180 some kph, so even without MASC this little speed demon may have a role to fill.
- Add in the future 'Deployable' sensor elements and we may have a specialized duty for this Mech.
- Outfit it with TAG and the shear size or lack of size makes it a very difficult target to locate.

So we just may see it being fielded.
9erRed

Um... The Flea was not known for it's speed. It was actually a fairly slow (by light standards) mech. At least till it kicked in it's masc system...

Now, MWO Flea might be able to become even faster. It might be able to become the fastest mech in the game with MASC making it gain bursts of even greater speeds. Depends upon how they introduce it.

For the record, the Locust was one of the fastest mechs in BT lore from my recollection. The Locust was designed as you described above. The Flea was designed to be a garrison mech last I knew. Typically filled with MG (best against infantry), Flamers (utility and best against infantry) and Sm Lasers (also gained a bonus to infantry wounds). It did do some recon work, but was mostly anti-personal in design. Max speed was 98 KPH, so it wasn't the fastest thing on the field, the Locust achieved speeds up to 130 KPH. The Flea could use it's MASC to gain quick bursts of speed up to 130 KPH, but it's base speed was a lot slower. (Also, never heard of anything out running missiles in BT lore...) (MASC also has a chance of causing damage when used, possibly immobilizing the mech upon it's use. How it will be in MWO, no one knows yet.)

Read Sarna for more information on the Flea and the Locust.

[GunnyKintaro 01]

TalRavis, on 25 May 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Do we really need another unused 20 tonner?

yes we do !

[Koniving]

9erRed, on 25 May 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

When role warfare arrives this chassis could be released, although as others have stated, without MASC.

This brought me to tears.
Mainly because we had role warfare. It meant something.

Spoiler

• Then the minimap got streamlined updates instead of once per second updates, making it easier to find players ourselves and removing much of stealth from the game.

Old video, ignore sound issues. Watch minimap.

• ECM was developed in a way that alienated role warfare. Invisible to sensors required the 12 slot stealth armor. ECM had no real benefits against LRMs (other than possibly delaying locks which is encoded into the game already) and did nothing against streaks.
  
  • What it did do however is within 180 meters it could shut down locks... JAM Radar, Sonar, Sensor Equipment (to include Seismic), jam communications (you can't spot; I'm jamming you)... Scramble Thermal and Mag vision modes (making them virtually unusuable - OR making the player invisible on those vision modes; up to interpretation)... create sensor ghosts (sending mechs on wild goose chases)... deny information (yes you can target my ECM mech, but I'll be "Unknown" as well anyone around me including your teammates; you won't see my damage status and it won't even tell you what mech I am).
    
  • What it did NOT do is advertise 'low signal' to all mechs. (It only advertised to BAP. "Beagle Active Probe is jammed by ECM, but the user will be aware of it.") It does not make the user invisible to sensing equipment (as ECM is only effective out to 180 meters, which means you're an anomaly that draws a LOT of attention but with no specifics, that missiles can lock onto with little trouble; typically sorting through 'ghost' images to find the correct one).

Where we could have had this...

We instead have this

• Fire support; the range of certain weapons allowed them to be useful in fire support. AC/2s, extremely popular for this purpose, were then nerfed with ghost heat; alienating the direct fire support and causing them to switch to brawlers. Gauss Rifles, also nerfed due to their effectiveness in brawling, was done without an equal nerf to other weapons; essentially alienating snipers from being effective as a role.

Overhead fire support. Now gone.

• Indirect fire support: A role recently buffed, used to be more tactical. The frequency of LRM fire has actually indirectly alienated another important role: the escort. Escort mechs for LRM boats are no longer truly necessary as anything stupid enough to try and rush the LRM boat is typically killed in swift order. There is no dodging missiles and attacking while it reloads. Though buffed, the frequency of fire is due to two nerfs; one in damage and the other in the form of ghost heat, requiring players to fire them in the always more effective streams instead.

This

Has become this

• Removal of delayed convergence; an anti-pinpoint system, acclimated the role of the poptart to super proportions, but alienated most medium mechs and light mechs from genuine effectiveness as well as brawling (as pinpoint damage makes brawls quick and suicidal to most things that aren't heavier than 65 tons).
  
• Armlock, a trinket that increased pinpoint, further alienated some roles for reasons above.

This has been lost.

This has been lost.

This is now lost (sniping that is difficult).

This is now supreme (the armlock)

This is now supreme (poptarting due to armlock) and removal of delayed convergence.

• Removal of repair and rearm; say what you will but the prevention this caused in spamming top of the line upgrades had a huge negative impact on role warfare.
  
• Hardpoints and limits per variant -- on everything except armor. Just think how much more diverse role warfare would be with armor limits per variant? Most of the meta mechs would be meta for firepower or mobility, but not because of armor. Almost all of the 'useless' mechs would be worth something as almost all of them -- virtually universally -- had superior armor to the 'useful' mechs. Back in closed beta role warfare and pseudo armor limits existed because endo, ferro, etc. didn't exist and XL engines weren't around; you really had to make some tough choices and thus you had roles. Now those tough choices are gone.
  
• Finally, game modes where the objective mattered more than killing each other. Who would camp the hill at such and such, when playing assault to capture the base paid more to the team than killing every single mech? When capturing the base with everyone alive paid the most? (obviously that part can be abused). Who would follow the exact same path every time, when having new and creative ways to reach the base will provide better chances for the big rewards of completing the objective? Would that not require scouts to scout to find enemies sneaking up to bases? Would that not require some players to defend the objective targets? Would that not require a strike team going out to attack objective points? Does this not give every single player a role to play in addition to kill each other?
  
  • Then why has every game mode forsaken it?

Instead of this, where the mechs defend base, fight on a front line, scout, find out information, and mechs charge to take the base...

we have this...where everyone yells at you for being 'stupid' and playing the objective, causing everyone to lose LOTS of potential money.

Added examples.

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[DEN_Ninja]

I miss Repair and Re-arm dearly.

Just boost C-Bill rewards by a slight margin and bring it back.

Lights with the exception of highly advanced models would have little repair cost.
Mediums would have a standard to high repair cost, it would hardly ruin C-bill earnings.
Heavies is where it starts to ramp up and have it take a huge bite if not all the possible earnings.
Assaults would cost the most but with a slight increase in earnings. If you play well you can make bank. If you play poorly it can result in 0 or negative earnings.

But people whined about how R&R is bad. Now everyone plays Heavies and Assaults with AC/5, PPC, ERPPC, Gauss Rifles galore.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 26 May 2014 - 11:09 AM.