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METAGAME: A breathing universe surrounding the day to day Mech battles.


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#1 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:03 AM

I am very interested in an in depth discussion on creating a living, breathing background around the FRP battles we will be fighting.

My question to the Mechwarrior forumites is:

How can an interesting, meaningful and exciting background be written and fed into a game that is not really sandbox and not really scripted?


(I am relatively new to the forums. I apologize if this has been covered.)

Here is a link provided by GaussDragon that lays out the planned Metagame in the form of community warfare.

http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

My question goes beyond this start. What would you like to see the Metagame grow into.

Map from above article: (with slight modification :-)

Posted Image

Edited by Spider, 12 May 2012 - 12:09 PM.


#2 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:11 AM

I will list a few points that I would like to see in a Mechwarrior game involving real people paying real money, as opposed to a scripted game.

SANDBOX:
The present market example of the SANDBOX is EVE ONLINE. It is easy for them to have a living breathing background because they are creating it as it goes.

SCRIPTED:
Pretty much every MMO out there is leading you down a path to a goal that is preset ... again and again. While this is enjoyable the first time around it becomes a grind thereafter. You feeling of being able to "make a TRUE and real impact" to the history of the game is lost.

When I talk fo IMPACT I mean one that is unique to you. Now one else can replicate what you have done or take the fame/notoriety you have created from you. You will alway be the one who did XYZ the way you did it.

Mechwarrior already has 30+ years of well written (in most cases) and interesting background. How do you introduce this into a game with and advancing timeline and still give players the feeling of bein involved and integral to the growing story.

I would enjoy a game that was able to introduce the rich and enjoyable background of the INNER SHPERE while still allowing me to feel my part in the advancing "history" was meaningful.

#3 GaussDragon

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:12 AM

Not really sure how to answer that. As far as I know, the devs are sticking to the timeline but a lot of planets that are historically insignificant will change hands while others closer to a faction core may not switch so that factions can't get streamrolled aka eradicated. Others on here can clarify better than I can. The game is definitely tilted towards option 2 (scripted). Hope that helps.

EDIT: Here's the official word on how it works http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

Edited by GaussDragon, 12 May 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#4 Lighthorse 32

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:28 AM

I thnk this game can be made into a successful MMO. I think it would require a LOT of effort put into the building of the game universe in terms of size...it must be truly immense. If anyone recalls the old star wars galaxies, it was a big group of worlds but they werent really populated by anything. This one should NOT be like that. Script writing would be the key so folks could adventure around and truly explore their hearts out and make some gain to work solo or as a group(clan). They should have the opportunity to find rather unique things almost anywhere...a sort of payoff for the time spent in exploration. In turn those things may be worked into research and construction technology to improve mechs. Make the universe big enough that players could be relatively safe focusing on exploring and finding/scavenging etc...not always looking over their shoulder. Allow places where clans could build bases..on planets....asteroids...etc.

I think central to the theme would be the ability to engineer mechs...research...and build. Establish a kind of physics to the game then allow construction of mechs within those parameters. Of course clans could develop their own paint schemes and logos as desired (within taste...subject to approval by game moderators)....make their own drop ships...make war if they dare.

Certain things shouldalready be set up at the outset by the game creators... likes cities, planets, organizations. Join a clan that's truly its own thing where they can build from nothing, or join large galactic organizations where players advance from the ranks through missions. Who knows, later, they might have the ability to go renegade on those organizations for the cost of a price on their mech-head for the rest of their days!

Edited by Lighthorse 32, 12 May 2012 - 10:43 AM.


#5 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:29 AM

Thanks Gauss.

I guess what I am hoping to start here is a discussion on what players would like to see if there were no limits.

What kind of game would players like to see in "their perfect" version of a living, breathing Mechwarrior world?

#6 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:33 AM

View PostLighthorse 32, on 12 May 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

I think central to the theme would be the ability to engineer mechs...research...an build. Establish a kind of physics to the game then allow construction of mechs within those parameters. Of course clans could develop their own paint schemes and logos as desired (within taste...subject to approval by game moderators)....make their own drop ships...make war if they dare.



I like that idea.

#7 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:36 AM

I am not really pushing the idea of a full MMO type game. I would rather have a game where I am mostly in my mech, of course, and fighting. But I would like those battles to mean something both on a personal/game level and on a metagame historic level. I would like to feel I had something to do, in a real way, with the happenings of the Inner Sphere.

I guess even if out actions rewrote Canonical history to some degree that would be interesting. (eg may we pushed the clans back sooner OR lost outright to the clans).

It is a big universe. I am sure there are parts that could be taken and rewritten by the players action with little affect on the already written canon political/historical events.

Edited by Spider, 12 May 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#8 BFett

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

From a mercenaries perspective the meta game can be very rewarding. Capture a planet, get x amount of bonus c-bills from that planet. Of course don't forget getting paid for doing the job well too. I'm not sure how this will work for faction players but I would guess something similar.

Note none of this has been confirmed by the devs.

#9 Xaks

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:56 AM

As people in here bring up so often, and for good reason, I'd love to see EVE re-done with the Battletech universe.

There's plenty of room for storyline and endless conflict/mission possibilities if each planet is visitable and explorable.. And the tech to do so exists already, so they wouldn't need to be reinventing the wheel.

Of course, it'd be the largest game center, the largest online universe, the largest GAME, in history.

#10 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostBFett, on 12 May 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Note none of this has been confirmed by the devs.


Given .. but let's discuss what we would like to see ... regardless of possibility or present iterations already planned for the game.

#11 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostXaks, on 12 May 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Of course, it'd be the largest game center, the largest online universe, the largest GAME, in history.


That is the direction I would like to take this. Lets look, say, 10 years down the road. Where could this game be ... from a Metagame perspective.

I personally think the sky is the limit with this license.

Imagine:

House Militariy sub-units, Clans, Mercenary corps, Solaris fight teams, Ronin mech warriors, tanks corps, infantry units, Aerospace wings, Spacefleets etc etc

All created, grown and run by real life players. All with their own fame or Infamy. Real stories of real people created within the gaming environment set up by the Mechwarrior development team.

You find a planet somewhere in the periphery. Settles it. Maybe have to dig out a small merc corp that is already there or another player corp. You set up shop. From this base you take on contracts from the nearest bordering house. You grow attract attention gain notoriety and finally have to defend your growing fiefdom from other players.

I would imagine that House Units and military would be commanded by "in house" GMs and you could leave the Periphery to the players to develop the politics and borders.

#12 Xaks

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:23 PM

I've actually got some of this already typed up in a google doc. Me and a buddy were talking over some ideas on exactly this when I got word that PGI had picked up the title, so I dropped it.

When I get home I'll bring some of it over...

#13 Kanatta Jing

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:54 PM

Imagine if the biggest mercenary company expense was for your dropships?

And that affected how big your company could get how big an engagement you could enter into.

Well if your corp only had a Leopard -> http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Leopard which has a max capacity of 4 mech bays, then you could probably enter into a Company size engagement but as a single lance working alongside a pair of lances.

And needing a Union -> http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Union which has a capacity of 12, to full deploy a company on your own?

#14 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 01:22 PM

View PostKanatta Jing, on 12 May 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Imagine if the biggest mercenary company expense was for your dropships?

And that affected how big your company could get how big an engagement you could enter into.



It would open up a "transport" economy. Also a Dropzone fire support service with a bigger ship. Guilds, corporatioins or merc groups that had a surplus of transport could sell the service to add to their coffers. This could lead to an ongoing relation ship that could involve not only transport but future military cooperation or alliance.

Edited by Spider, 12 May 2012 - 01:23 PM.


#15 Volthorne

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 01:33 PM

The #1 reason why MW:O won't work as a full sandbox game: Davion/Steiner would steamroll EVERYONE into the FedCom, and then get almost completely wiped out by the Clans. ComStar would then proceed to take over EVERYTHING because they can. Instant cluster-**** where no one wins. Except the Devs, the only people allowed to play as ComStar.

Edited by Volthorne, 12 May 2012 - 01:33 PM.


#16 Spider

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 02:15 PM

View PostVolthorne, on 12 May 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Except the Devs, the only people allowed to play as ComStar.


lol

#17 Magnificent Bastard

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostGaussDragon, on 12 May 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Not really sure how to answer that. As far as I know, the devs are sticking to the timeline but a lot of planets that are historically insignificant will change hands while others closer to a faction core may not switch so that factions can't get streamrolled aka eradicated. Others on here can clarify better than I can. The game is definitely tilted towards option 2 (scripted). Hope that helps.

EDIT: Here's the official word on how it works http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

This.

We, the players, will have no significant effect on the universe. We'll have fun earning things that are important to us... but when it comes down to it the actual "universe" will be virtually untouchable. The MWO storyline is like a real-time book... we read the story a day at a time and the future is preordained.

#18 Togg Bott

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

there is also the technical aspect of it... EvE online has a actual supercomputer running stuff... and it still doesnt go compleatly smooth

dont get me wrong, i would love it as i already play eve. it would just be a really ambitious project due to the fact that MW/BT has 30 years worth of fans.

Edited by Togg Bott, 12 May 2012 - 02:31 PM.


#19 Xaks

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:01 PM

OK, here goes. This is gonna be LONG, so warning you ahead of time. These are just kinda thoughts I had and some ideas while pondering a fictional "Battletech Online" that I was inventing in my head on the ride home. (I had a 100 mile a day commute. For four years.)

.....

Broad strokes
Some detail
Mostly overview and generalized approach

-

Location & timeline

Various points in the Inner Sphere, not long after Tukkayid...say, 3055-to 3065ish. Pick a year....I’m thinking like 3063. The Clans are occupying large swaths of Draconis Combine and Steiner territories. The map view would be similar to EVE’s.

Travel and time:
Obviously vast distances between star systems and planets. We’ll need to truncate travel *to a degree*. The need for long-*** distance travel taking time can/will be a major factor in logistics and planning.
For instance: in the canon universe, jumpships can jump up to ( I think it was something like 28 ) 25-30 light years in a couple minutes time. BUT they then must unfurl the solar sail and charge the batteries for up to a week, depending on the strength of the star they jumped to.
We don’t need to go quite this crazy, but the mechanics of this will be interesting for planning. Hyperpulse generators (operated and guarded by ComStar, with their own military and neutral to all) allow communication across the stars fairly quickly, but not physical transmission. Thus, you can order a lance of mercs to garrison planet x, but what happens between now and ...when they arrive? TIme for travel will be criitcal. We’ll need to talk about this one a lot.

Startup / early paths
From the get-go: start a toon in one of the House militaries, each with their own styles/locations/traditions etc. EVE also did this nicely with its factions. You can become a n00b light mech pilot on a backwater garrison going into their West Point / Mech Academy. Missions via NPCs mostly, and against NPCs...the regular noob stuff. Get combat experience, salvage (?), cash, etc.

Also available (perhaps on a restricted basis?) : Roll up a toon in an established Merc company. We can make NPC and game master led ‘big names’ that people can join. Think the Grey Death Legion, Wolf’s Dragoons, Snord’s Irregulars, etc. A lot harder missions, much more difficult assignments (raids, etc) but much better pay. Plus salvage and upgrades. Training for larger mechs is expensive!

Plus, there’s the “Straight to the action” option of dropping your happy *** into the middle of Solaris 7, the game world. Legal gambling on mech vs mech and team vs team fights in the arenas. Open PVP here. Excellent cash but a high chance of death/loss of cash.
Tangent time: Death. Borrow heavily from EVE’s clone/implants system.

Also have an option for rolling up CLAN. However, they have strict rules to go with the better tech. Server-side bidding for the lowest amount of gear among NPC clan commanders to keep it real interesting.

Obviously heavy open PVP on contested worlds in clan vs i.s., clan vs clan, i.s. vs i.s. as always. Endless amount of npc ‘worlds’ can be spawned as mission points for npc missions & factions.

Critical importance on this next part.
Mechs and customization.
Different variants of mechs are available in different areas. Plus, the appearance of your mech is unique.
For instance, the original Marauder was a Marik and Combine mech. The Marik version came standard with a GM ‘Whirlwind” A/C 10 over the right torso. It had a tendency to jam in the linkage, and ran a little hot.
Say a merc has one of these MAD-3Rs, and in his travels, he yanks that out for a Coventry Metalworks LB-10x autocannon. Lighter, but bulkier, and I can tell by looking at it that it isn’t the GM. If I know my ****, I know Coventry gun comes from the foundry on Hesperus 2, and they have excellent construction. Plus, as an LB-x autocannon, the bore & barrel are slightly different in appearance, so they can fire regular or ‘shotgun’ rounds. I want to be able to see the difference between the two.
Did you ever read the original tech readouts for battletech? The source books? On every tech readout page for mechs that had a ‘noteworthy variants’ section. They’d list that the 5R designation made by Marik swapped out the A/C5 for two medium arm-mounted lasers and three more heat sinks and an extra ton of armor. Etc etc. These ‘cosmetic’ changes in mech variants would be easily doable with current tech and allow endless customization.
Plus the entire scope of available customization for each mech is astounding. That part alone would probably take a year to code in.
Thus, I could opt for the massive Sunglow Large Laser (from the original Thunderbolt) over the more ‘classic” Magna Mk 3 Heavies (Rifleman) if they ran a wee bit hotter but did a hair more damage. Or, perhaps choose to use the Martell Medium lasers because the focusing mirrors were better secured and got jarred loose less often than the Intek ones.
Take it a step further: While testing the Intek mediums (On, say, a Crusader) you also happen to note that the Harpoon-6 SRM racks were exceptionally quick reloading, compared to the Hollys on the Warhammer shoulder.
Think about it. The amount of customization and geek-out-ability of a system like this would be off the charts.
Of course, it would make EVE’s database look tiny in comparison, but we’re just talking here!


Part Deaux:

Session overview - “ to be noted and detailed more separately.

Setting: “Me” gamer. Chris (the wife) is at her sisters for the weekend. I’m sitting down in front of my PC with my morning joe, and it is time to get my battletech freak full-on yo. I may or may not leave the house today, and it doesn’t matter to the world if I do. The grocery shopping is done, the laundry is done, the cat has food, water and a clean litterbox. I’m off of work, the BlackBerry is silenced, and we’re off.

What do I want to make? What would me dream be? That’s what I’m here to find out, as I log into my (fictional - for now) Battletech Online account.

…........................................................................................................................................................


Lets see, where were we when I logged off? Ah yes, home sweet home...the mech bay at my home ‘headquarters’ on Planet XYZ. I recently got back from a trip to Hesperus II (I went personally to Defiance Industries manufacturing facility to take delivery of a my biggest order ever. But I just so love their ER Medium lasers and AC/5s, plus the guidance/targeting systems are just *choice*. So I brought that shipment (that took me WEEKS of mission running to save up for) back to my home-20, and ordered the gang down in the mech bay to upgrade two of my lance with the new hardware. I let that run overnight so I’d have them ready for this morning.

(Note- lots of explaining necessary on that paragraph alone. I’ll get to that later)

The upgrade is done, so I queue up a new paint job for the lance. If we’re gonna be heading out on a new contract and rollin’ with new hardware, we might as well look cool too!

That won’t take too long, so I bring up the Comstar link to the MRBC (Mercenary Review and Bonding Commission) contracts listing. Lets see...this is the meat and potatoes of the universe right here....

Sort by … expected necessary unit size and … region? Yea, see if I can get a couple of quickie out and bring in some cash. Lets see, a lance or smaller...

(There’s X contracts up for bidding in my range. Think EVE’s complex faction listing system on speed. Then couple that with the same planetary mapping/overview. Only, at each of those systems is located at least one planetary body, the majority of which will be game accessible, even if generic. Sorting by region ((say, within 10 jumps)), the faction list of people I’ve pissed off lately ((or ever, really)), and the expected force size give me a certain number of available NPC missions.
We have tons of wiggle room here, and almost unlimited possibilities. Garrison/guard duty missions....keep a target alive as NPCs attack...even the hated escort missions. Static guard duty...make sure noone ***** with an outpost, or warehouse.

Bounty hunting can be HUGE. Everything from small-timers within a star system to big-name Raid-type targets with fortified compounds.

Plus, also typing into the reputation system...I want NPC’s to get and KEEP a hate list of players. You **** off Faction X enough, they start putting contracts out on YOU. Enter NPC hitmen that pop in on your missions and try to kill you for the bounty.)

I spend 15 minutes plugging through mission contracts. Where, when, paid by who, what objectives, etc etc. I decide that, even though it isn’t the easiest or closest contract, THIS one is what I want to do. Strike Faction XYZ’s mercenaries at their camp on Planet QRS....they’ve been ******* off the locals something fierce, and they’re being paid by a known House Marik agent to stir up the local **** in a long-term bid to cause unrest and maybe flip the planets alliegence from LyrCom back to House Marik, where it once was aligned during the First Succession War.

Reports have two or three light mechs, and a medium. Small contingent of personnel, a few hovers and utility vehicles. Support and logistic support is a minimum, it looks like a subcontracted merc airdrops supplies in to them a couple times a month as needed. They operate in the field mostly, little contact with indie populations except to attack and keep up political unrest.

The local protectorate folks caught wind of this and aren’t happy, so they’re putting up a reward to … smish.

I make sure to check the ‘Known ********’ page, and see who’s toes I’m stepping on this week. Noone I don’t already dislike, by the look of it. Sounds fun, let’s do this. I accept the contract, and Comstar’s built-in escrow account give me the stated up-front cash to arm up. I pull up the system and planetary data sheets and give them a closer look....I glanced over them to make sure I wasn’t taking a contract on a zero-g, no atmosphere asteroid, or a planetary glacier or some **** (yes, those exist and yes, there will be contracts for something on them, so you best pay attention to this minor detail, as I’m sure you’re aware these environments will have huge different mech loadouts). But now I’m looking at known system info....how many planets, population centers, distances and drop points, etc etc...any data is good data.

I don’t see anything special....near-normal gravity and atmosphere, temps within normalish ranges. Slightly elevated solar radiation levels from the parent star but I won’t be in-system long enough to give a ****. I really don’t need to make much in the way of configuration changes.

Now, think about what I’m doing a minute. This is a merc group...smallish, but decent. After all, we’re talking extended field operations with little or no support or resupply. No or minimal spare parts and no ammo reloads, plus field repairs only and otherwise almost self-sustaining. This isn’t a group of n00bs. These are experienced mercs. As such, what can I expect?

Field ops, no resupply. This means mostly energy weapon loadouts, as autocannons go out of ammo quick and become dead weight with constant resupply. Also, field repairs means armor may not be at 100%, and there’s already wear and tear on the existing machinery.

I’m going to take the time to throw ablative armor on my Shadow Hawk. More expensive, bulkier armor (takes up more critical slots) but performs a lot better vs. energy weapons. Otherwise, my team is ready to go.

I’ve got a single lance of mechs. Shadow Hawk (?) for me. Wolfhound, Panther, and Raven. My NPC mechwarriors are pretty vanilla. Basic team commands....for instance “keep max range, lob missiles/long range weapons on specified target”. The Raven will have a couple extra available commands, as it has advanced C3 comps and ECM/probe equipment. I also load inferno SRMs into my launchers, make sure all my custom hardware is ready to fly.

(SIDE NOTE - I want to build in 75 metric fucktons of hardware customizations. If you can imagine bolting that ****** onto a walking tank, I want it in. I don’t care about limitations, we’ll cut elsewhere if needed. The personalization of the mech is arguably the key to the entire game experience, and the players HAVE to be able to see and work with their mechs. If this fails, the game fails, period.)

So, back at it. I hire a Leopard class dropship to a pretty vanilla standard transport contract. We have wiggle room here too. Make many just straightforward “Taxi” contracts, but some possibilities exist for more exotics. For instance, hiring a ship to be a “field command center”, including repair/refit/rest and atmospheric travel.

We’ll gloss over the questions of transport time and logistics (that’ll be a series of meetings all its own).

OK, so, we hit the dirt and deploy. The dropship hangs back, hot, with orders to bail and ask questions later if attacked. My lance deploys, diamond formation, at best group speed (meaning, fastest walk speed of slowest mech; in this example, the wolfhound and shad are both 5-8-X movers, so the equivalent of 5 hexes per turn). The Raven takes point with sensor suites in full passive mode, we maintain broadcast radio silence and use LOS infared comms only.

I’m looking at recent satellite data (snagged it on the approach) and it looks like the base ops of the unit we’re hunting in near the back of a small canyon-like series of hills. Almost a cul-de-sac with limited line of sight. The rolling hills are only 20 to 40 meters tall, but steep enough you’d need hefty jump jets to traverse many of them. And it would take a near-direct overflight to get a scan on them. Nice setup. Someone was thinking when they did this.

We’re still about two clicks out when Raven comes over the comm. “BOSS! I’m reading an active scan, but more importantly I’m seeing something BIG power up....huge neutrino signature. At least a heavy, maybe assault class!”

****. “OK, full ECM. New orders: Best speed now. Everyone get to medium range with your most power weapon and do a full-stop alpha strike in the cockpit of whatever the hell is coming online right now. After that, stay at best long range and keep moving, focus your fire on my target. Watch it though, I’ll be at point blank and I’d rather you not shoot me.”

A chorus of affirmative responses.

Slam the throttle to full and lean forward, the cockpit jostling up and down as the 9 meter metal simulacrum hits 80kmph. Quick check of the board, all green across the weapons systems.


#20 Dirk Le Daring

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostMagnificent *******, on 12 May 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

This.

We, the players, will have no significant effect on the universe. We'll have fun earning things that are important to us... but when it comes down to it the actual "universe" will be virtually untouchable. The MWO storyline is like a real-time book... we read the story a day at a time and the future is preordained.

I think this is accurate.

But would point to this ...http://mwomercs.com/...le-of-tukayyid/
It would be the only thing we could partake in as I see it, not only this battle, but all major battles could happen like this.
Just the way I see it. ;)





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