62 replies to this topic

[Parliment]

Ill sign into WoB now if I could !!!!

[Dunovan]

Glare, on 13 August 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

1) The WoB controlled Sol, the single largest manufacturing center in existence at this point. Forget Hesperus II, the Sol system, which includes the facilities that have been producing material for over a thousand years on Terra itself, as well as the prodigious manufacturing on Mars, as well as several other high-output facilities in systems like New Earth, incorporated into the Word of Blake Protectorate very early.

This was my biggest problem with WoB. "The Fall of Terra" was ridiculously easy for WoB to pull off given Terras history of a well designed defensive system. It was the heart of Comstar, has all of their Command and Control, factories and not to mention the families of billions of deployed Comstar people and after the fall Comstar is like "eh.. whatever" and does NOTHING to get it back.

WoB at the time was fractionally smaller than Comstar, and yet they let the one planet, the only planet they have held in its existence with all of their history and treasures, and they let it go. Historically speaking in real life and in pixel life, it that happens to a group and they do nothing to respond, they dissolve quickly.

[John Christopher]

Aldo Raine, on 04 November 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

This was my biggest problem with WoB. "The Fall of Terra" was ridiculously easy for WoB to pull off given Terras history of a well designed defensive system. It was the heart of Comstar, has all of their Command and Control, factories and not to mention the families of billions of deployed Comstar people and after the fall Comstar is like "eh.. whatever" and does NOTHING to get it back.

WoB at the time was fractionally smaller than Comstar, and yet they let the one planet, the only planet they have held in its existence with all of their history and treasures, and they let it go. Historically speaking in real life and in pixel life, it that happens to a group and they do nothing to respond, they dissolve quickly.

Aldo,i completely disagree with you here.
The Sixth of June was almost perfectly well planned.
Much of Comstars ROM left to join Blakist. Those ROM agents that stayed behind were Blakist in disguise. Spying on their fallen Comstar brethren. You have to understand that the schism that happened between Comstar and the Word of Blake left Comstar really weakened. Most of ROM and the upper-echelon of Comstars Command and Control structure packed up and relocated to either Gibson or the Free Worlds League.

Look exactly what Berith (aka Benjamin Emory ) did when the Word of Blake landed on Terra. He surrendered his ROM training grounds and quickly defected to the Blakist. And it wasn't just one guy that surrendered one position. It was tens of thousands of people that were sick of Comstar. That truly saw Comstar for what it truly was. Afterall,it's pretty easy to capture a massaive fixed fortification when the guards purposely turn the planetary defensive systems offline....lolz.

[dal10]

that plus earth's defenses were sacked not once but twice. once when kerensky destroyed Ameris, once when Jerome blake seized control of the planet. and since comstar was neutral and the IS had no warships left, there were no space defenses rebuilt.

[Dunovan]

John Christopher, on 07 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Aldo,i completely disagree with you here.
The Sixth of June was almost perfectly well planned.
.....

Those are all good points. I agree that the the schism caused by going from a religious order to a mechanical order would cause strife, especially in the true believer sects of ROM.

However, it was my understanding that ROM had been restructured after the break, and while key people in defense posts could have been compromised, Focht had gained by this time a good amount of "street cred" by defeating the Clans, which is a big deal since everyone was afraid they were unstoppable and then all the sudden they were stopped. The mental aspect of that is pretty significant.

Regardless, my point was that Focht, and the new Comstar for that matter, was like, eh, I guess we will hang out in these last 6 FRR worlds rather than return to the place that we swore to protect, and had protected for 4 succession wars.

If *I* was in comstar, and I saw Comstar just give up Terra in lieu of standing watch of the clans who swore not to attack south of the line. I would be in Word of Blake.

[Sephlock]

Haroldwolf, on 09 August 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

All things related to the Jihad and Dark Age should be purged from the Battletech Universe.

[Kyone Akashi]

It might be interesting to see the timeline accelerated by skipping the less turbulent years in-between the big conflicts - and thus ultimately also reach the Jihad-era and beyond. I would prefer if MWO would stay close to the canon, though, as personally I have to say it feels nicer to be part of the official Battletech setting with all its sourcebooks and novels being applicable here, rather than something lesser made up by a small subset of its fans, whose only feature is a greater sense of participation.

That being said, there is always some room for our own stuff even in the official stuff, an example being the "flippable" border territories we will fight over as part of Community Warfare, and in the same vein we could also have some regions of space where we as players would indeed decide the ultimate outcome, such as a sector with a couple planets whose names exist in the canon, but which are not associated with any fixed events. And even though we as players know that the WoB would ultimately fall, we could still influence the fate of those worlds in that our battles would determine whether the planets can be successfully defended/liberated, or eventually get nuked. We could also fight a delaying action to give personnel, factory assets, and civilians time to evacuate. We could try to capture valuable reconnaisance data or technology to support Coalition efforts against the Word. We could determine the fate of captured soldiers in a PoW camp. The list goes on. In a game, I don't need to be able to decide an entire war and can have enough fun with leaving a mark on the events my character actually plays a direct part in.

Also, it's kind of interesting to see the clash in opinions between the different "generations" of Battletech fans. It's like there is a sort of unofficial cut-off date between each of the major changes in the setting. In a simplified manner, it seems as if lots of classic BT fans dislike the Clans, Clan fans dislike the Jihad, Jihad fans dislike the Dark Age, ... ironically enough, all using the same core arguments for why the next era sucks, whilst defending their own favorite.

In a way, I can understand them, because people tend to get used and accustomed to a setting they've grown to like specifically because of how it looked like when they first saw it. I've experience the same sense of alienation in other franchises that moved away from their original state. I'm just happy that I only found into Battletech -now- (in large part thanks to MWO) and thus got to explore all the aforementioned timeline periods with an open eye unaffected by pre-established preferences, because this way I can find something cool and interesting in each of these eras. Yes, including the Dark Age. I wouldn't want to miss out on the Dragon's Fury or the great experiment that was the Republic of the Sphere (and I'm already curious about just what exactly is happening behind the fortress wall).

Maybe I will join the grumpy vets and curse whatever Catalyst will do after the Dark Age whenever that time comes (I am already mourning the apparent end of Katana Tormark's saga), but for the time being I like to believe that my realisation that change is an integral part of the Battletech setting, and that this is part of what makes it feel so realistic and immersive, will protect me from this fate. Like art, Battletech has always imitated real life, and as such change is inevitable. Let's not fight but embrace it - and use it as the foundation for ever more great stories of strife, honor and betrayal.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 27 December 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[Alexander Steel]

And in 3145 House Liao has the most regiments of any House or Clan by 25% or more.

True Story,the latest field manual 3145 shows Liao with just over 50 Regiments. Davions/Steiners/Marik have mid 30s And I think the DC has roughly 40 or so.

[Cale MacKenna]

They came up with the WoB Jihad because WizKids never explained what happened. They went from Battletech to mechwarrior Dark Age right after the FedCom Civil War. Just POOF Dark Ages.. So when Catalyst Games for the license to put out Classic Battletech, they needed something to explain what happened, enter WoB Jihad. I refuse to even acknowledge that "era" as it is just a catch-up era that was needed because of WizKids.

Although, I do have to agree with many of the people here, anything that allows me to shoot WoB 'Mechs is worth it.

[nightsniper]

The real issue is how do you put the WOB as written into an Arcade like game which MWO is. Bring in added mechs for variety and the type of play omni vs standard or Clan vs IS works in this format bring in the longer story line is not conducive to this game. At least not until they think about bring in the broader aspects of the game like tanks, VTOL, aerospace, battle armor and protomechs again not an arcade format. The role play id up to the community and planetary can take on almost anytime line the key will simply be the mechs and the equipment and as time passes more and more designs are likely to come in. After all that is the money making aspect to the game isn't it. So you can pick any time frame you want in reality you just have the limit in the type of mechs you want to role play in.

[Rowanas]

I kinda like the WoBblies, although that changes daily. They seem like another horrendous power creep, but the awesome gene/mental/tech stuff they have is so awesome. It's a better setting fluff wise than gameplay wise, and we can't shoot down the tunnel too fast. Let's simmer in clan tech for a year or two, once they actually get everything done. (Although I really want to reach 3069 asap though, I need my ******* HAG40)

[Alexander Steel]

Cale MacKenna, on 28 December 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

They came up with the WoB Jihad because WizKids never explained what happened. They went from Battletech to mechwarrior Dark Age right after the FedCom Civil War. Just POOF Dark Ages.. So when Catalyst Games for the license to put out Classic Battletech, they needed something to explain what happened, enter WoB Jihad. I refuse to even acknowledge that "era" as it is just a catch-up era that was needed because of WizKids.

Although, I do have to agree with many of the people here, anything that allows me to shoot WoB 'Mechs is worth it.

I'm not a fan of the Jihad as it was presented in the lore, but they had long planned to do an event where the WoBies went crazy and it was going to be the next big war after the FedCom Civ War. Once the Dark Ages came out the event became much larger in scope and way more damaging to the universe as a whole.

[John Christopher]

Quote

However, it was my understanding that ROM had been restructured after the break, and while key people in defense posts could have been compromised, Focht had gained by this time a good amount of "street cred" by defeating the Clans, which is a big deal since everyone was afraid they were unstoppable and then all the sudden they were stopped. The mental aspect of that is pretty significant.

Regardless, my point was that Focht, and the new Comstar for that matter, was like, eh, I guess we will hang out in these last 6 FRR worlds rather than return to the place that we swore to protect, and had protected for 4 succession wars.

Well...Focht was stuck between defending Terra or Lyran space at the time when the Blakist took Terra. Because at that same clan Jade Falcon was also attacking Lyran space. Focht, due to his sympathies to House Lyran Focht figured he'd be better fending off the clans. So he just let the Blakist take Terra almost unopposed. With Terra captured the Word now had a gigantic industrial base at their disposal. Including the Titan Shipyards,and many mech factories that have been operating untouched for hundreds of years. The Word quickly purchased,built,or restored every ship they could get their hands on. They were going to need these ships to bring their war to all those who followed Kerensky's folly. The Word had no need to to occupy clan space,just erradicate the planets military defenders by any means necessary. Prior to the outbreak of the Jihad the Manei Domini were operating against the Wolf's Dragoons and it's Wolfnet. They targeted the Dragoons first because of their complete and unadulterated hatred regarding the thought that the Dragoons were just paving a way for the rest of the clans. The Jihad left the Wolf's Dragoons with less than a regiment to fight with.....

The Blakist played almost every hand correctly. They were never truly defeated because they still have hidden planets to operate on,and people who still beleive that Jerome Blake and Conrad Toyama are prophets.

[Argent Tnega]

The Jihad was dumb. In the group I play with, We just pretend it did not happen. The Inner Sphere and Comstar crush them when it comes up and go about the business of killing each other just like normal.

[Beo Vulf]

LordDeathStrike, on 17 March 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

i dunno, theres enough real jihad going on now that we dont need it in our fun games too..... when they wrote the WoB stuff in the 80s we werent engaged in mortal combat with a certain extremist religion that will fight to the last person big enough to carry an ak 47, now we is.

Actually we were it just wasn't as well publicized, as it is today. Militarily we have been engaged in combat with islamic extremists since the 80's and possibly earlier. Most of that was black ops stuff.

[Neutron IX]

Tadakuma, on 17 March 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

No, the Word of Blake Jihad is a horrible storyline. It reads like a bunch of sub-literate geeks got together and had a meeting to decide what the most "AWESOME" and "EPIC" events would be in the BT universe. Unfortunately they wrote a bunch of sense that makes as much sense as a Michael Bay movie.

In the space of 5 years they attack every major capital home world, destroy the Wolves Dragoons and take Hesperus. Meanwhile they're sowing weapons of mass destruction like candy seeds of destruction while causally committing war crimes and genocide across the inner sphere.

They do this without maintaining any real strategic position or real manufacturing base and using a bunch of second rate outlawed mercenary units who can suddenly stand up to units like the Wolves Dragons, the Northwind Highlanders or Kell Hounds.

I found the idea that they were able to take and hold Hesperus without controlling any of the surrounding systems for a period of years laughable. They did this while attacking Luthien (a world the Clans could take), Tharkad, Outreach and New Avalon. The most heavily defended worlds in the Innersphere are taken because it is some how "cool"

For those whoe aren't keeping track Hesperus is a world that contains approximately 30% of the Lyran commonwealths mech manufacturing capacity and is defended by a minimum of two mech regiments plus conventional forces. The nearby systems are heavily garrisoned and the forces are equipped with jumpships to enable them to reinforce Hesperus on short notice. It has never fallen once during the course of the Succession Wars, Clan Invasion or FedCom Civil War.

Some how the WoB is able to take this world with two Divisions, effectively two mech regiments. They attacked a heavily defended position with an abundance of assault mechs and did so with few enogh causalties to enable them to effectively defend the planet from counter attack.

Steiner military is renown of it;s understanding of logistics and manufacturing for strategic advantage, the idea that they would let a world that important to their military in enemy hands is laughable. Especially considering that these attacks are happening in isolation.

There is no reason that large task forces can't be mobilised to retake Hesperus because these operations aren't being undertaken as part of a larger operation. They're single point attacks.

It's as if the combined military know how of the innersphere was paralysed by a magic beam while the jihad was going on it doesn't make any sense.

Bear in mind that prior to this that all the major battles and operations of BT universe made sense, attacks took place over a broad front and had a strategic plan. Thing made sense, which the jihad doesn't.

I can honestly say that for me the Battletech timeline ends in 3062 (maybe 3067 if I'm feeling generous)

You. Are one of my new favorite people...

And I could NOT agree more.

Kudos for your personal BT timeline rules. That's about generous as I can be with the timeline myself, though truth be told, more often than not I pretend to myself that the timeline stops prior to any event that gives Katherine any sort of control over anything, since that pretty much represents the turning point for every event that I completely despise that comes afterward...

[Neutron IX]

One of my biggest beefs with WoB, is that here we have centuries with virtually no real advances in tech levels in the IS, with pretty much all real progress beyond that fueled by discoveries like the Helm core and reverse engineering of Clan tech, and then all of a sudden, there's ridiculous WoB tech just flying out of every WoB writers pen that's miraculously light years beyond anything to date.

Even with Sol and all of House Marik (which, lest we forget, also suffered some in-fighting and other challenges in the meanwhile), I find that possibility highly unlikely.

Seriously, as a rule, 3060 and on is just not my cup of tea for so many reasons (I'm looking at you Protomechs)...

I actually liked WoB as an IS Antagonist faction when they were first introduced, and didn't have a ton of problems with the "Schism", but where it all went with the Jihad and so much of what was associated with it. Bleh.

And that's not even counting Xin Sheng, etc, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I actually, oh Gods, I can't believe I'm saying this, have a lot of respect for Sun Tzu, even though I'd quite happily see him toppled/executed and then enjoy a nice tea afterward. And I would agree that with decent leadership, and the chaos of the FedCom Civil War, his actions were timely, and logical. I just can't believe that Candace let it all happen.

Anyone else remember her message to him after she took out Romano? I feel as though she would have been prepared for just such a possibility as what actually took place, and had assets in place to "stop" him as it were.

[ApolloKaras]

You know... They could do so much with CW. In my opinion I say throw Canon out the window as of right now 3050 and proceed forward with however the battles turn out in CW, maybe Clan v Clan, House v House, it would/could be very epic...

[KoshiManiac]

I only got through half of page one so far so I don't know if someone already brought up that they (the devs) are already working on bringing more Clan mechs in, have long promised Community Warfare, and have a list of bugs to work out last I played (gotta finish building a gaming computer and then find a way to get reliable internet in a small town before I could get back on) and so asking for something new seems kinda counter productive. Do like the concept though I just would like to see them make progress on the projects they already have first before taking on something new.

[Arcainite]

Ioun Stone, on 03 August 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Technically they've already written the Dark Age novels for the post-Jihad setting, up to the year 3130. *sigh* It's as if with the HPG loss, they've attempted to make the setting more akin to Warhammer 40K in the making. Mind you, WoB had basically mech and personal infantry designs that were even light-years ahead of what the clans brought to the table vs the Inner Sphere. Plus, they controled communications. Without it, the few jumpships left were FUBAR'd with battleplans, etc etc. (yeah yeah I know armchair general-ing here.)

One thing that saddened me...I do wish they would have finally put in another 'species' besides Humans in the game. I realise that's more earth shattering, but it wouldn't have had to change much. Maybe it would have gotten the periphery states some power as they make first contact (one way or another.) And perhaps it changes the way mechs are designed, or the new friction beyond mere houses, or ex clanners.
The new species could even have it's own divided and fractured area of space, opening up a new deluge of factions making pacts. The possibilities would be almost endless, heck you can throw in a war or two for good measure without bringing all of space known space to it's knees.

Right, got off track there...
I personally don't have any of the Battletech Roleplaying game books (nort wargame books!) from anything past 3067-69, prior to the Jihad era. I've read up on it, but meh. I'm glad this game is currently in the cusp of pre-clan invasion myself. But if eventually down the line the years roll by, I'll have to finally admit Jihad and the Dark Age have and will happen.
Unless someone does a weird JJ Abrahms thing and 'reboots' Battletech? Hmm?

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