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Weapon variety - different stats for different manufacturers/models?


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#1 Nik Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

I have always hoped for a little more depth in weapon stats.

For example, all Large ER lasers are the same, all ER PPCs are the same, etc.

Yes we have different sizes in some weapon classes (small, med, large), but I would love more variety in each particular weapon class.

For example, medium pulse lasers made by different manufacturers could have slightly different stats (eg. damage vs heat) and cost.

Different manufacturers are mentioned in the TROs and in the canon, so why not open up that level of realism and variety in the game. A lot of my friends who are into battletech are sold on the idea.

While I appreciate this may not be tenable for launch, who else would like to see something like this introduced down the road to add a whole new layer of depth to weapon choices and gameplay variety in general?

#2 palebear

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:29 PM

In my opinion, this sounds like adding complexity for the sake of complexity.
Lacking any true market system of supply and demand, there is really no added value in a differentiation of models with micro-adjustments varying by model.

#3 ArchSight

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

Nah, it would be unfair to do it by stats. I would like it to depend on factories that your faction is holding to make weapons, ammo, and mechs cheaper to buy

#4 Nik Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:36 PM

It's about adding a little realism and variety, not complexity. Taking a real life example, all anti-tank guns are not exactly the same. So if there is a way to add more depth (nothing too complex about being able to choose more weapons) for the sake of realism and as a nod to the simulation aspects of MWO and the canon, I see it as a win-win.

As I said, every battletech fan I have talked to in person about it would welcome the idea

View PostArchSight, on 18 March 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Nah, it would be unfair to do it by stats. I would like it to depend on factories that your faction is holding to make weapons, ammo, and mechs cheaper to buy


Stats is just an example. The factories idea doesn't sound too bad at all! Just a little more juice under the hood in terms of weapon types would be awesome.

#5 palebear

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:37 PM

Your quest for realism is laudable, but it would really just be adding complexity for the vast majority of players. With most differences never approaching the order of magnitude justifying an actual change to the stats, in my opinion.

#6 osito

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

Although i do like the idea, i do not see it being very easily done here in the game. The devs would have to do different stats to each brand of weapons. I mean you have large, medium, small laser in er, standard and pulse for every different manufacturer. that is alot of work not to mention you would have to do this also to every ac,ppc, and missile for every corporation. It is just to much data to differentiated from.

#7 Jack Gammel

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:43 PM

There's no need for that level of complexity. The Core Rules clearly state that weapon designations (AC/10, AC/20, Medium Laser, Gauss Rifle, etc.) are applied to a wide variety of weapon models produced by different companies specifically because they do relatively the same things. Ex. All AC/10's are ballistic weapons of a similar size, and regardless of which company produces them or the exact mechanics of each individual model, they do very similar levels of damage and have similar ranges. Any minute differences in damage and range should be considered negligable in game-terms.

#8 Ian MacLeary

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

If you do differentiate by stats varying between manufacturers, you'll wind up with a situation where someone will find the 'best' option... and then everyone will use it. There's no actual supply and demand available to differentiate price; if 10000 people all want Hesperus Uberburn-2000 Medium Pulse Lasers* because they're 1% more heat-efficient for their damage, then they'll be able to get them - unless the devs take the time to code in an artificial scarcity system. I'd rather they spend their time making sure of balance, getting the role warfare right, than fiddling around with weapon stats across some 30 different weapons types and 20+ manufacturers.

Having a particular type of weapon being slightly cheaper depending upon faction is fine, as far as I'm concerned.

*Hesperus Industries denies the existence of the Uberburn-2000 Medium Pulse Laser. Because the weapon is too awesome to release.

#9 Gozer

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:47 PM

I agree changing the stats is uneccissary but I too would welcome "discounts" to Kurita weapon purchases for instance as a Kurita player. Also cheaper costs based on how your faction is doing is another way to make weapon manufacturers more interesting/worthwhile.

#10 00dlez

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

While taht would be more fun in some sprt of expansive/immersive universe, for multiplayer use I don't like it. I have enough to worry about when the battle starts and don't need to be cross referencing spreadsheets to figure out if the DC Catapult has some extra damaging lasers or if that Raven can hit me at an extra 50m.

#11 Nik Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:52 PM

Agree that this is not a suggestion on the critical path for launch, won't be easy to implement and therefore not really a 'quick win' especially when thinking about more casual gamers. But as a sim (and battletech canon) fan myself, I feel having a differentiator for weapon types by brand like you would in the real world will add some 'personality' to weapons. To be perfectly honest, while I am stoked about the game and the mechs, the weapon choices seem a little boring to me as they are the same old basic categories (ppc, laser, AC, etc) that we have been playing with for years.

As current tech enables a whole new level of realism in terms of core gameplay, imo the addition of more variety in weapons (this idea can be applied in other areas, such as engine types) would make this much more of a true mech sim - paying homage to the canon.

#12 Fachxphyre

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:52 PM

yeah, having different weapons manufacturers on different worlds would provide an added incentive to take and occupy real estate. although that could possibly create a problem where everyone jumps ship for the biggest faction for access to the cheapest items.

#13 Moosehead

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:35 PM

The other thing, is have weapons from different manufacturers, but dont list it as +2 AC/10,
but as Luxor D-Series MkIII Autocannon, that will only fit certain Mechs. Shoehorning into non rated
chassis takes more C-Bills and might cause problems(jams, etc) if they try to fit it in, say, an Orion

Let players figure out is actually an AC/12 with a tad shorter range

#14 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:59 PM

I had made a posting about this earlier. The idea of having a few different flavors of each weapon as produced by different manufacturers was well received, given a few conditions:
  • They have to be available long after launch as the Devs finally get time to play around with stuff like this
  • The differences bethween the weapons' stats should be small, like only 2-5% changes here-and-there
  • The weapons should also self-balance with respect to their fine tuning - a Large Laser that shoots a shade more rapidly than a competitor's large laser would also be a little less powerful to compensate, for instance. You could even have a slightly longer range at the expense of recharge time, but it would not be what you'd call an ER Large Laser
  • These differences between weapons should be subtle enough such that a duel between two pilots using the equivalent weapons from two different manufacturers should not be decided by the weapons, but rather by the skill exhibited by the pilots.
  • Different weapons from different manufacturers, given their House-affiliations, might have varying costs accouring to your Loyalty
  • Nothing should be unavailable to the non-paying player

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 March 2012 - 03:14 PM.


#15 Nik Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostMoosehead, on 18 March 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

The other thing, is have weapons from different manufacturers, but dont list it as +2 AC/10,
but as Luxor D-Series MkIII Autocannon, that will only fit certain Mechs. Shoehorning into non rated
chassis takes more C-Bills and might cause problems(jams, etc) if they try to fit it in, say, an Orion

Let players figure out is actually an AC/12 with a tad shorter range


Yes that would work. The notion that only certain mechs can field specific weapon models is exactly the kind of realism this game would benefit from.

#16 Nik Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostProsperity Park, on 18 March 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

I had made a posting about this earlier. The idea of having a few different flavors of each weapon as produced by different manufacturers was well received, given a few conditions:
  • They have to be available long after launch as the Devs finally get time to play around with stuff like this
  • The differences bethween the weapons' stats should be small, like only 2-5% changes here-and-there
  • The weapons should also self-balance with respect to their fine tuning - a Large Laser that shoots a shade more rapidly than a competitor's large laser would also be a little less powerful to compensate, for instance. You could even have a slightly longer range at the expense of recharge time, but it would not be what you'd call an ER Large Laser
  • These differences between weapons should be subtle enough such that a duel between two pilots using the equvalent weapons from two different manufacturers should not be decided by the weapons, but rather by the skill exhibited by the pilots.
  • Different weapons from different manufacturers, given their House-affiliations, might have varying costs accouring to your Loyalty
  • Nothing should be unavailable to the
    non-paying player

    Finally there we go! Well thought out ideas, I do hope this is something the devs consider down the road as I suspect there is actually more demand for this than meets the eye (certainly from a large number of people I know). With some thought put into implementing this there is scope to add significant variety and longevity to the gameplay experience.


#17 Helmer

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

For refererence sake (And if you'd like to see what others have posted in the past) Here are older threads on the same topic


From November : http://mwomercs.com/...%20manufacturer

From December http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

There have been a few other threads. I'll try and look once I get home.


Apparently its a very popular idea.


Cheers

#18 Psydotek

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:48 PM

I totally want to see something like this. Maybe not with different stats, but different functionality...

The main weapon discussed was autocannons. Perhaps one model AC/20 will fire a single slug that does 20 points of damage where another AC/20 from a different manufacturer will fire a stream of slugs that do 1 point of damage. However, they would have identical heat and damage/second when accounting for reload speeds and such.

Someone did mention that in alot of the books, this was actually the case and for the tabletop rules they were all grouped under a single ruleset to keep things simplified for turn based combat.

Now that we have a real time simulation, I would love to see this weapon variety for same-class weapons be implemented.

This would also lend itself to customizing your 'mech with a "brand" of weapon that suits your playstyle without having to worry about crazy retrofits that would create non-canon variants...

#19 Mason Ventris

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:33 PM

Definitely a poor Idea. Would be like MMORPGs with theirs whites greens blues and purplish pink items. OOOO the purplish pink items...mmmmmmmm.





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