41 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

The small laser we saw in the gameplay trailers fired a small, short burst before it had to recharge. The medium lasers, however, took a much longer time to deliver their damage. I can only guess how long a Large laser would take to deliver its pain.

It seems to me that PPCs might be the way-to-go for energy loadouts if the Large Laser takes progresively longer to discharge than a medium laser. I haven't personally seen any PPC or Large Laser footage yet, but I would really like to see how this balance is addressed.

I will concede that medium lasers should be difficult to use because they're light, punchy, and easy to go crazy with in the Mech Lab, so adding in a degree of aiming difficulty makes them more balanced. Large Lasers, on the otherhand, appear far less frequently and might get snubbed for other, punchier high-power energy weapons if they're too slow and spread their damage everywhere like a "cheap" medium laser.

Edit: I guess this wound up being a suggestion...

Okay, how do you feel about the laser durations we saw in the trailers, and what do you think a Large laser should be like? Should it be shorter in duration than a medium laser, equal to it, longer than it?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 March 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[El Loco]

From a physical point of view it makes sense to increase the time a laser has to be fired in order to deliver its full damage. My take on the balance of large lasers would be to increase the diameter of the beam fired. This way, the delivery could take place in about the same amount of time as it does for a medium laser... although I'd prefer it, if the large laser would take a little longer (about 0.5s perhaps).

[Kaemon]

Can't really comment until we see how they do Pulse lasers, cause (have to throw in a NGNG quote here) there is a lot of different ways to do them, they could 'pulse them' for example.



Seriously though, the 2 different styles should compliment each other, and while it's be awesome if they could do a bit of visual/functional difference per manufacturer (beyond color change, which I think they're going to leave so peeps can quickly identify them), I want to see both of them (and if there are variants all the variants as well) before we start discussing them.

So yes, mark me down for cop out answer.

Edited by Kaemon, 18 March 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[cinco]

El Loco, on 18 March 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

From a physical point of view it makes sense to increase the time a laser has to be fired in order to deliver its full damage. My take on the balance of large lasers would be to increase the diameter of the beam fired. This way, the delivery could take place in about the same amount of time as it does for a medium laser... although I'd prefer it, if the large laser would take a little longer (about 0.5s perhaps).

neither of those ideas make sense.

heat buildup is the only one that makes sense.if it overheats, it can't fire. simple as that. don't complicate things with stupid what I see to be pseudo-scientific explanations.

Edited by Garth Erlam, 20 March 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[00dlez]

I like this laser mechanic. Getting tagged for full, concentrated laser damage isn't as realistic as a beam getting dragged acoss a troso and arm and spreading damage out over an area as the mechs move for the .5 sec or 1 sec duration of the weapons firing.

[MaddMaxx]

If we look at the Stats for the Lasers, and it appears the video fires the ML for 2 seconds, then Heat and Damage output will have to be varied per weapon in order to keep the individual weapons output values at par.

SL = 1H / 3D (1.0H / 1.5D per second = 1 sec burn)

ML = 3H / 5D (1.5H / 2.5D per second = 2 sec burn)

LL = 8H / 8D (2.66H / 2.66D per second = 3 sec burn)

erLL = 12H / 8D (3.0H / 2.0D per second = 4 sec burn)

3 seconds is a long time, 4 seconds will seem like an eternity to have to keep a Ranged weapon (500m)+ on a moving target?

It will obviously take some tweaking to get right in game.

[Rayge]

I really like the idea. I think it will make laser boats alot more skillful, instead of being point-and-click wonders.

[00dlez]

Rayge, on 18 March 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

I really like the idea. I think it will make laser boats alot more skillful, instead of being point-and-click wonders.

Better stated than my comment.

[Mason Ventris]

I hope large lasers dont have longer durations or like the OP said they will be sidelined to faster butt kicking delivery systems.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

It's not only the time on target - it's also the recharge time between shots. For instance the LL could do it's damage in the same time as the ML but take longer to recharge. As long as the correct ammount of damage is done over 10 seconds it doesn't matter so much.

[MaddMaxx]

Aegis Kleais™, on 19 March 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

PPC's bring hell not only to their victims (if you can aim well enough) but to the pilot firing them (baking them alive if they don't manage the massive heat they generate)

I like the mechanic of holding lasers onto target to maximize damage (a unique aspect for lasers vs. other types of weapons) but we should never have to worry about 3 and 4 second long durations where you have to hold the reticule on target. It's just too much time. That being said, if the number are nailed down right, it's an acceptable game mechanic.

Based on the 2sec ML assumption I posed (based on a posted assumption I might add) just reduce those times by 25% and then the 50% and see if those #'s would compute. The LL for full damage in 2 seconds could be quite devastating.

Not sure how the 10 sec divide would work out between firing and cooling times? I did my Maths for today already...next!

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 March 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[mockingfox]

00dlez, on 18 March 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

I like this laser mechanic. Getting tagged for full, concentrated laser damage isn't as realistic as a beam getting dragged acoss a troso and arm and spreading damage out over an area as the mechs move for the .5 sec or 1 sec duration of the weapons firing.

as do I, if you want to deal a bunch of damage to one specific spot then the ACLBX20 is where its at
i like the idea of lazors firing differently from ballistics (over time not instant)

this also helps prevent targetting, where someone decides they just dont like your left torso and then lands 3 shots and its gone, not we will get much more spread out damage which will make things more interesting.

[Siilk]

LL duration > ML duration > SL duration. Logical and balanced.

[Garth Erlam]

One thing to keep in mind on things like 'beam width' is say you're the average player, you don't know physics or how LASERs work, and you see the following:

Huge, bright red beam.
Tiny, narrow blue beam.

What do you think is doing more damage?

(And no we don't cater to new players, but consider that, logically, it's a little counter-intuitive)

[Thorn Hallis]

Neither, because we all know that red goes faster.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Garth Erlam, on 20 March 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

One thing to keep in mind on things like 'beam width' is say you're the average player, you don't know physics or how LASERs work, and you see the following:

Huge, bright red beam.
Tiny, narrow blue beam.

What do you think is doing more damage?

(And no we don't cater to new players, but consider that, logically, it's a little counter-intuitive)

You and your Highschool-level Physics.


I just don't want to find every player in the game dumping their Large Lasers in favor of Point-and-Click PPCs.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 20 March 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

I like it. Having longer duration means that I will only need two larges to write T.V. on your chest, if I don't put the periods in.

PPCs are the insta click now? They have travel time!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Well, more like Fire-and-Forget.

[Zyllos]

Play MW:LL and you will see that AC/20s and PPCs are hard to land when both targets are moving laterally to yourself. You have to aim so far ahead that if they deviate from their current path, you could just completely miss your target.

I think adding duration to the firing of beam lasers is a good concept to incorporate. But, at mentioned above, 4s is a bit excessive. I think the SBL should be 1.5s, MBL 2.0s, and LBL be 3.0s. Each one dealing slightly more damage than the last per second on the target.

[Siilk]

Zyllos, on 20 March 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

I think the SBL should be 1.5s, MBL 2.0s, and LBL be 3.0s. Each one dealing slightly more damage than the last per second on the target.

I'd say even make it 1 second for small lasers. They are weakest and have the shortest range of all, we can let them have a tiny advantage here.