32 replies to this topic

[NineTails]

How is it not possible? I don't recall the part in the rules where you look forward to the heat phase and pre-emptively prevent weapons fire due to heat buildup. Yeah, you can auto-shutdown if you are reckless, but, hey, no guys, no galaxy.

[Hythos]

Thermal energy can only be gained, and not lost.

Think of Heat Sinks as a heat capacity. When heat is generated, it transfers through the thermal-conduits, absorbed into the heat-sinks - and finally, absorbed into the air. There would be a ramp-up in temperature as the ERPPC capacitors (not to be confused with ERPPC Capacitors) charge, and discharge... so the heat-sinks would be working throughout and normalize in the value given by the game-rules.
Therefor, with having a 'capacity' of 60heat/6,000deg F, when a quad ERPPC strike were 'charged', the therms would initially begin transfering, but it would be quite low - to where in game-terms, there would be no preachable temperature (yet). As the weapon discharges, the energy created in the plasma-furnace is mostly vented (as potential / damage), but the emitter also absorbs back an amount of heat from the partical 'propellant' (similar to combustion in a conventional projectile weaponry).

Above the Heat Capacity, excess heat build-up would be absorbed into the chassis and equipment - though not to the full value of the max temperature all at once - it would be spread across, but greatest in areas where it was generated / and lost. The "Temperature" value in game-terms, is the collective ambient temperature above the Delta, and is expressed as a reduction in heat capacity... (basically just means you're carrying that amount of heat, requiring excess capacity to ventilate to open air, or through the Solaris7 coolant modules, etc.

Even though heat sinks can be mounted in remote locations, the heat transfer is engineered into their designs, to allow for normalization... however, heat-sinks directly mounted locally to the weapon / equipment generating heat, is most efficient. From this Alpha-strike, you would see heat-spikes of 500, maybe 1000deg F for a few seconds in some areas, until the temperature bleeds off and normalizes. Insulated equipment would be fine, but 500deg is a bit high for electronics, and anything much over 1000deg, and aluminum/other equipment will soften/melt. For instantaneous heat generation, even a Masakari Prime firing two ERPPC's on one arm could pose just as much of a problem as the Hellstar. The shut-down conditions are basically from equipment out-right malfunctioning.

[Dakkaface]

I remember back in MW3 - if you didn't load up on double heatsinks in a 100t mech and tried this, your reactor went critical and exploded. If you tried to fire 5, you exploded instantly.

I haven't done more than flip through the TT rulebooks. I take it there's no reactor explosions from overheat in CBT. Do you just shut down until your heat is dissipated, maybe take pilot damage?

[DocBach]

Dakka, as long as you didn't have ammo, your pilot getting knocked out or damaged and a forced automatic shut down was the worst thing that could happen (besides the fact that being shut down for that turn left you as a sitting duck).

[Steel Prophet]

Correct me if i'm wrong but i think i remember a scene from the novel "Endgame" where a Masakari in the forces of Victor fires all its 4 ERPCC at once. And if i further remember this scene correctly the only thing that happend was, that the mech did freeze and couldn't move for a while until the heat dissipated.

[Goldhawk]

Has everyone forgotten about the Warhawk or the Masakari?

4 ErPPCs
LRM 10.

[Sug]

Goldhawk, on 28 April 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Has everyone forgotten about the Warhawk or the Masakari?

4 ErPPCs
LRM 10.

And only 40 heat dissipation. If it stood still and only fired the 4 ppcs it would still end up with a 20 on the heat scale at the end of the turn. If it ran and fired everything it would have a 26 and you'd need to roll 10+ to avoid a shutdown.

The Hellstar's max heat is 62 and has 60 points of dissipation. If it stood still it could fire all 4 ppcs forevers.

[Zexx]

I've fired 4 ER PPC's from a Personally designed Mech and lived to tell the tale in a table top game. Of course the entire 'Mech was Clantech, and I only did this at Medium Range which was considered to be Close Quarters Combat and manuverablity wasn't a huge factor, and it slagged a 90 ton MADCAT (lucky hits and dice were liking me that day- very unusal for me in both instances XD).

[Aethon]

Yeach, on 18 March 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Is this possible in Battletech tabletop?

4 x 15 heat = 60 heat which is greater than the 50 heatscale
Or do heatsinks work immediately in TT so a maskari Prime with 20 DHS (-40 heat) can fire 4 ERPPCs?

It is possible, especially with custom variants, and especially if you do not spend the weight/space on a Targeting Computer. If you are looking for the 4 x 15-point long-range sledgehammer, it might be easier to substitute a Gauss Rifle or two, so you are not forced to turn your mech into a walking heatsink.

Also, here is how heat is calculated in TT: your total heat dissipation capacity is subtracted from the total heat your mech generated during its movement and firing phases; this is done during the heat phase at the end of each turn. If your capacity is over the amount generated, you end the turn with 0 heat. If, however, you generated more heat than your heatsinks could dissipate, THAT is when you start using the heat scale.

For example, if you walked (+1 heat) fired a Clan Gauss Rifle (+1) and two Clan ER Large Lasers (24 heat), you would have generated 26 heat during that turn. If you had 10 double heatsinks, you would have dissipated 20 heat, leaving you with 6 heat on the heatscale at the end of that turn.

[Sassori]

Never, ever, take the Novels for an interpretation of the game rules. It says this specifically in Total Warfare. The novels are entertainment, they don't and never have given an accurate representation of the game rules. In the novels for example, getting /hit/ with a laser ramped up your mech's heat and a single inferno practically forced a shut down! The novels simply aren't accurate but they're fun reads for the most part.

Is it possible to fire off all that and not generate heat? Yes it is. The advent of double heat sinks for the IS allowed lots of fun stuff to be possible.

Also: The instant nuke of MW3 and 4? Meh, mech's don't explode without reactor hits and/or ammunition troubles. A mech with no ammunition at worst will go into shutdown till the heat comes down... oh and it can cook your MechWarrior Alive. Literally. The mech though... hose out the cockpit and remove the long pork bbq and it's good to go.

[Victor Morson]

I always get a kick that the LRM on the Warhawk is there to nerf it. If you dump the ammo from the LRM, you can get away with an emergency alpha strike on good enough to-hits; if you remove it and replace it with even more heatsinks, you can do so safely. The way the LRM is on the thing you'd pretty much never, ever want to bother with using it anyway, so it purely exists to fix what was basically a way overpowered design otherwise.

Given we have a Mechlab, mark my words: If the Warhawk makes the Clan expansion, only fools will bother with the LRM on a 4x ER PPC version.

Christopher Dayson, on 01 May 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

Also: The instant nuke of MW3 and 4? Meh, mech's don't explode without reactor hits and/or ammunition troubles. A mech with no ammunition at worst will go into shutdown till the heat comes down... oh and it can cook your MechWarrior Alive. Literally. The mech though... hose out the cockpit and remove the long pork bbq and it's good to go.

I swear if I was a better character modeler I'd totally make a fan video for MechWarrior parodying "1,000 ways to die." There's just so many horrible ways to go in the BTU. Being cooked alive, diced by needlers, stepped on after ejecting, crushed in battle armor by a 'mech you're riding on, being killed ejecting, literally smashed to death in a tumbling 'mech, killed by vacuum with head shots, crushed/sliced by elemental claws, being hit directly with an Inferno SRMs.. the list just keeps going on. I think of all wargames involving giant robot-tanks, MechWarrior far and away takes the prize for "most (and most horrible) ways to kill the person inside the 'mech."

Edited by Victor Morson, 01 May 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[Aethon]

Victor Morson, on 01 May 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I swear if I was a better character modeler I'd totally make a fan video for MechWarrior parodying "1,000 ways to die." There's just so many horrible ways to go in the BTU. Being cooked alive, diced by needlers, stepped on after ejecting, crushed in battle armor by a 'mech you're riding on, being killed ejecting, literally smashed to death in a tumbling 'mech, killed by vacuum with head shots, crushed/sliced by elemental claws, being hit directly with an Inferno SRMs.. the list just keeps going on. I think of all wargames involving giant robot-tanks, MechWarrior far and away takes the prize for "most (and most horrible) ways to kill the person inside the 'mech."

I think my personal favourite terrible way to die would be drowning in boiling-hot coolant; I remember, in one of the books, someone's Warhammer took A LOT of internal damage, crumpled over a huge rock with the cockpit facing down, and the cockpit flooded with boiling coolant. Nothing like drowning and burning alive simultaneously.

[Sassori]

I just read that book actually. I've been re-reading the original novels. Fortunately the guy was already unconscious due to heat and fire and suchlike before he was boiled alive by coolant.