33 replies to this topic

[LordDeathStrike]

i would do damn near anything, to see a game made with armored cores customization options, and mechwarriors sim playstyle.

legs: 2-3-4, tank treads, hover tank flight type (3 leggers could go up to 125 tons, 4 leggers 175 tons, heavy treads 200 tons!) hovers for scouts that dont need jj any longer they can just boost hehe.

arms: so many options, from mechwarrior style gun arms and arms with hands that hold additional guns, just more then mw has and more is better.

the boosters, thats right, everyone has limited jj, or at least can thrust to turn faster or move faster. wouldnt want it as arcadey as armored core, but it would take some of the pain out of turning your assault around or getting up that hill at better then half speed.

heads: better optics, sensors, low profile to help avoid easy head shots, you name it, armored core doesnt have body part dmg tracking but it should, mechwarrior has it but you cant trade off features for low profile head or suffer for having alot of sensors and stuff to be easier to headshot.

at any rate, a child game born of both ac and mw taking the best of each, it would be the 2nd coming of digital christ.

[Hawkeye 72]

Customization adds such a personal feel to the game and your mech. I hope MWO takes advantage of this. Just like social networking, people and gamers want to stand out and feel unique while interacting with a large number of users. More and more games today are allowing this level of depth for the player to individualize their experience

[Strum Wealh]

LordDeathStrike, on 23 March 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

i would do damn near anything, to see a game made with armored cores customization options, and mechwarriors sim playstyle.

legs: 2-3-4, tank treads, hover tank flight type (3 leggers could go up to 125 tons, 4 leggers 175 tons, heavy treads 200 tons!) hovers for scouts that dont need jj any longer they can just boost hehe.

arms: so many options, from mechwarrior style gun arms and arms with hands that hold additional guns, just more then mw has and more is better.

the boosters, thats right, everyone has limited jj, or at least can thrust to turn faster or move faster. wouldnt want it as arcadey as armored core, but it would take some of the pain out of turning your assault around or getting up that hill at better then half speed.

heads: better optics, sensors, low profile to help avoid easy head shots, you name it, armored core doesnt have body part dmg tracking but it should, mechwarrior has it but you cant trade off features for low profile head or suffer for having alot of sensors and stuff to be easier to headshot.

at any rate, a child game born of both ac and mw taking the best of each, it would be the 2nd coming of digital christ.

Hmmm... sounds like what Chromehounds might have been if they had taken the extra steps to 1.) implement an in-cockpit perspective (rather than third person and gun-cam POVs) and 2.) made it PC compatible...

[HeroicTofu]

I touched on this subject in the Who's Looking Forward to Armored Core V thread but here's my take on it, slightly refined to a good night's sleep.

MechWarrior (my first mech game of all time was MechWarrior 2) is the sim game of the mech world, designed with a PC in mind. It puts you in the pilot seat, it gives you controls that match what an actual pilot might use (Read: The Joystick). You get a sense that you truly are piloting this bad boy in a universe ravaged by war. Graphics, for it's time, were incredible. The story, though not really touched on a great deal in the games, is infinitely expanding upon delving into the BattleTech Universe. All and all, a fantastic game series that sadly got very neglected until now.

Armored Core is the de facto Japanese Mecha game, designed especially for the Console and to take advantage of controllers. I would avoid calling it the Japanese MechWarrior as the two games are entirely different beasts in almost every regard except for "Ooo, shiny mechs". Armored Core puts you in a third person perspective of your mech (An AC from here on), one that you customize and build yourself, piece by piece. Your AC has the ability to fly around it's environment at will (Unless you're playing Armored Core V! They've changed it quite a bit), use incredible weaponry including close range swords, beam sabers, and in some iterations, a nuclear explosion sword hybrid (Oh Kojima Particles from AC: For Answer, how do I love thee... let me count the ways).

For me, playing MechWarrior is a game where I'm actually in the pilot's seat, controlling a war machine of the possible real future, using technologies that are really starting to exist. Armored Core is my customization OCD habit fixer upper game, where I get to basically make Gundams that can blow up pretty much anything and everything in my path. Unrealistic compared to MW, but infinitely fun with all the carnage.

I love both series (and if you're an Armored Core fan, have Armored Core V on the PS3, add me on PSN, name's HeroicTofu, made a team already. ) for what they both bring to the table.

tl;dr: MW = Realistic, AC = What is that...It's a Gundam!!!

Edited by HeroicTofu, 23 March 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[Righ]

LordDeathStrike, on 23 March 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

even though some of the games were of dubious quality graphics wise, im calling you out mw2, good for its time but so ugly

Do you really care that much about graphics in a good game? Why do pretty visual effects take such a high priority? The Star Wars prequels looked very great and stunning, but they were still terrible movies. Mechwarrior 2 had amazing graphics for the time, and for the purpose of piloting a giant war machine, blowing up suckers for money, it does it's job fantastically. Battletech began as a damn tabletop game, which people STILL play and have fun with.

LordDeathStrike, on 23 March 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

(ac and machine guns were flying dashes.....)

You mean like pretty much every other shooter game that has come out since 1995?

[Righ]

LordDeathStrike, on 23 March 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

i would do damn near anything, to see a game made with armored cores customization options, and mechwarriors sim playstyle.

legs: 2-3-4, tank treads, hover tank flight type (3 leggers could go up to 125 tons, 4 leggers 175 tons, heavy treads 200 tons!) hovers for scouts that dont need jj any longer they can just boost hehe.

arms: so many options, from mechwarrior style gun arms and arms with hands that hold additional guns, just more then mw has and more is better.

the boosters, thats right, everyone has limited jj, or at least can thrust to turn faster or move faster. wouldnt want it as arcadey as armored core, but it would take some of the pain out of turning your assault around or getting up that hill at better then half speed.

heads: better optics, sensors, low profile to help avoid easy head shots, you name it, armored core doesnt have body part dmg tracking but it should, mechwarrior has it but you cant trade off features for low profile head or suffer for having alot of sensors and stuff to be easier to headshot.

at any rate, a child game born of both ac and mw taking the best of each, it would be the 2nd coming of digital christ.

Mechwarrior has always had customization. Unfortunately at the times the games were released, developers didnt have the means to integrate it visually. With games like Living Legends, and now MWO, we will be able to visually see variants on 'mechs. A COM-7X Commando will not look the same as a COM-2D Commando.

Adding or removing legs isn't really a viable option in the Mechwarrior universe. Not easily at least. Each 'mech is it's own design, made for certain roles (excluding Omnimechs). Adding an extra pair of legs or tank treads to a Mongoose would be silly, as it would so drastically change what it could or could not do. Appendage adding/removal is great in other games, but unfortunately just doesn't quite fit in Mechwarrior. There are already some four legged 'mechs out there, but I doubt we will see them in MWO.

Jump Jets as well are generally equipped to specific 'mechs for specific reasons. However, they are a bit more flexible, and I wouldn't mind seeing more 'mechs able to be equipped with them. Having said that, strapping an Atlas or Kodiak with Jump Jets seems pretty silly as well. There could be some tactical advantages, but the amount of power needed to give an Assault 'mech enough lift to even make it worthwhile would cause a significant chunk of available tonnage to be strictly reserved for JJs. While I certainly hope that we will be able to jump forward and not just vertically, using the Jump Jets to spin around a 100 ton 'mech would more than likely have repercussions. It's not an easy thing to keep such a large machine balanced.

Heads on 'mechs I feel are very personal to each individual one. Changing the iconic "Smiling Skull" head of an Atlas takes away from the feel of the 'mech. It becomes something else. If you're looking for better optics or a more low-profile cockpit, then a pilot can choose from the plethora of 'mechs out there. Plenty of variety already.

[HeroicTofu]

Righ, on 27 March 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Mechwarrior has always had customization. Unfortunately at the times the games were released, developers didnt have the means to integrate it visually. With games like Living Legends, and now MWO, we will be able to visually see variants on 'mechs. A COM-7X Commando will not look the same as a COM-2D Commando.

Adding or removing legs isn't really a viable option in the Mechwarrior universe. Not easily at least. Each 'mech is it's own design, made for certain roles (excluding Omnimechs). Adding an extra pair of legs or tank treads to a Mongoose would be silly, as it would so drastically change what it could or could not do. Appendage adding/removal is great in other games, but unfortunately just doesn't quite fit in Mechwarrior. There are already some four legged 'mechs out there, but I doubt we will see them in MWO.

Jump Jets as well are generally equipped to specific 'mechs for specific reasons. However, they are a bit more flexible, and I wouldn't mind seeing more 'mechs able to be equipped with them. Having said that, strapping an Atlas or Kodiak with Jump Jets seems pretty silly as well. There could be some tactical advantages, but the amount of power needed to give an Assault 'mech enough lift to even make it worthwhile would cause a significant chunk of available tonnage to be strictly reserved for JJs. While I certainly hope that we will be able to jump forward and not just vertically, using the Jump Jets to spin around a 100 ton 'mech would more than likely have repercussions. It's not an easy thing to keep such a large machine balanced.

Heads on 'mechs I feel are very personal to each individual one. Changing the iconic "Smiling Skull" head of an Atlas takes away from the feel of the 'mech. It becomes something else. If you're looking for better optics or a more low-profile cockpit, then a pilot can choose from the plethora of 'mechs out there. Plenty of variety already.

Yeah. As far as the MechWarrior (Well, BattleTech really) Universe is concerned, having Armored Core's level of customization just doesn't quite fit. Now, to have a MechWarrior game where you could say, use the different mechs existing but -also- have a mechlab where you could design your own mech from scratch... There might be something to that. It would make more sense to basically have a design lab where if you invest enough funds, you can make your own mech and design parts certain ways. That's the only way I can see MechWarrior and Armored Core combining.

But otherwise, they are two very different games with a common theme.

[Artgathan]

I'll start off by saying that I'm a huge fan of both series, and have been playing both for many years.

That said, they each appeal to me in different ways:

When I want fast-paced insane action (such as boosting to avoid a salvo of missiles, while holding down all my triggers to fire everything I have back) that's pretty over the top, I play Armored Core (though the newest one tones this down somewhat due to the limited boosting ability).

When I want a more tactical approach I play Mechwarrior; I want to pick my shots. I think about where I need to hit the enemy to disable their capability (read: that little attachment on the Atlas' hip where the autocannon lives) to engage me. It's slower and more thought out, but I like being able to plan my attack and put it into action.

Both feature customization (though I feel that Armored Core has more to offer in this area, due to the ability to select from more parts and fine tune them to better support your playstyle).

The real difference between them is really in terms of mobility. ACs are extremely mobile (maybe not the newest ones), whereas Battlemechs are much less mobile. Their firepower (within their respective universes) is relatively equal; both ACs and Battlemechs have enough weaponry to level a city block. Their armor is relatively equal; both groups can withstand extended combat.

They're both fun; they just cater to different ways of playing.

[Volthorne]

On the topic of leg count: treads and multi-legged mechs are much more viable (read: stable, stronger support) than bipedal mechs. They also happen to be less vulnerable to direct legs hits, because if you take a rocket to the thigh in a biped, and lose that leg, you are going down, and not getting back up. In a quadruped, you can re-distribute the load to the other 3 legs. Would it be harder to program to function properly? Not really, generally the same mechanics as a biped.

[Tanki]

The only time I liked Armored Core was the demo for either AC1 or 2 on playstation. The map that was endlessly filled with orcard trees and you couldn't find each other unless you used JJ's. Had fun with my brother on that map turns out he was on the other side of the trees right next to me heard him stomping around, so I casually walked over and sliced him in half. It was really the map that made it so interesting other than that all the new AC's just feel like arcade shooters with flying mecha. But that goes both ways, Mechassault.

Edited by Tanki, 27 March 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[HeroicTofu]

Tanki, on 27 March 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

The only time I liked Armored Core was the demo for either AC1 or 2 on playstation. The map that was endlessly filled with orcard trees and you couldn't find each other unless you used JJ's. Had fun with my brother on that map turns out he was on the other side of the trees right next to me heard him stomping around, so I casually walked over and sliced him in half. It was really the map that made it so interesting other than that all the new AC's just feel like arcade shooters with flying mecha. But that goes both ways, Mechassault.

You may actually like Armored Core V then. Whereas 4 and For Answer were pretty much twitch flight sims as far as mech combat goes, Armored Core V goes a lil bit back to it's roots. No direct flying, you have to wall jump and basically boost float around from there. Makes a bit more sense. Much more tactical. And it's very online centric. Every mission can be played with at least 1 extra person, and there's even team vs team conquest battles for territory.

[Tanki]

No, it was that one map that made it fun for me AC's gameplay just isnt for me. I've seen quite a few AC5 gameplay videos and its not much better than AC4.

[HeroicTofu]

Tanki, on 28 March 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

No, it was that one map that made it fun for me AC's gameplay just isnt for me. I've seen quite a few AC5 gameplay videos and its not much better than AC4.

Eh... Having extensively played AC4 and For Answer, and now having been playing ACV extensively (Beat all the Story and Order missions), the games are very different beasts that aren't entirely apparent through video alone. But I digress, if it's not your cup of tea, it isn't your cup of tea. I just like to bring more fans to the series where I can . The more mech interest out there, the better in my opinion, be it Armored Core, MechWarrior or whatever other giant robot of death game floats your boat.

[Vulpesveritas]

LordDeathStrike, on 23 March 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

armor core is a fairly well made arcade game with mecha.

battle tech is a rich sci fi fantasy universe with some ok and crappily made sim games, and an atrocity of an arcade shooter on the xbox's.

i dont hate armor core games, but cmon, i get shot on any part and its 1 health pool? i cant lose parts like arms and pods? f that, put in some effort fools.

i much prefer the sim aspects of battle tech, even though some of the games were of dubious quality graphics wise, im calling you out mw2, good for its time but so ugly (ac and machine guns were flying dashes.....) and mw4, its actually uglier then mw3 on the same reso, 3 had better textures, cmon 4 step up.

Actually in armored core; silent line you could have weapons blown up, and in Nexus, Ninebreaker, and Last Raven You could have arms and heads blown off, and legs damaged to the point of slowing you down.
I've had a number of times in AC vs AC fights where my head gets blown up by a barrage of missiles, despite my dodging.

Anyhow, for me;
Mechwarrior; Great plot, great universe, more stratigic thinking rather than tactical and instinctive thinking.
Armored Core: Fun game, twitch gameplay (unless you're a noob with a heavy like I once was.) Tactical thought to how you set up your AC.

Me, I always go with a medium, put on a highspeed booster, a good generator, and stick with a rifle or a machinegun in AC. I haven't played the newer three titles, but in AC2 through AC: last raven, I've played my nice twitchy medium mech and learned to dodge like nuts. You got big gun? I dodge your big, easy to spot bullet. Have fun trying to damage me. Oh, and by the way, here's a spread of missiles for you.
Out of ammo? say hi to my sword.

Mechwarrior... If possible, give me a light mech with a large laser, or a few mediums, and I'll engage in hit-and-run. Otherwise I'll take a nice heavy and use some Large lasers, maybe some machineguns and / or LRMs, with a couple small lasers for backup, and I'll do a standoff attack, move close in, then if I have JJ's I'll jump on your head, otherwise I'll just keep firing and either continually cycle my weapons and fire my machineguns while cooling down, or just ram you.