45 replies to this topic

[GrimJim]

Dude...

It was an XBox game. 'Nuff said.

Don't cry racial purity, just don't buy the game. And sleep sounder b/c the game moved millions of units (it was the XBox's first big multiplayer seller), exposed lots of kids to the universe of Battletech, and honestly thats a part of the reason we're all able to **** away on this forum right now.

[WithSilentWings]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

im not trying to get u too accept mechassault as part of the universe im just saying dont hate it because its a spinoff from mechwarrior. while i agree that most the time spinoff games are generally sucky and are rejected there are some that were amazing games. its people like u that would hate luigis mansion and super mario galaxy just because they arent platfomers and there only loosely based on the mario series.
p.s. i loved those 2 games.

It's really just that people are bitter because they'd already been waiting for so long for a proper sequel. And by people, I mean me.

As neat as it is, it sucks that I have to have MW2 installed on my notebook running in Dos Box just to have that experience--an experience that did VERY well and isn't really mimicked by anything else in gaming. I'm sure a game of that quality made with today's graphical standards etc. would do well, yet nobody is picking it up. Instead they are pushing resources into broadening the sales base.

It's really depressing to know that there are so many franchises out there that I used to love or grew up on that will never be good for the same reasons again.

But seriously, I can't think of a franchise that took the opposite direction--it's pretty clear it's all done for the money. Sometimes not even "for the money" as these games were profitable--but rather "for MORE money". Everywhere I turn my favourite games are being dismantled into steaming piles

[ENDMYSUFFERING]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

why does everybody have a problem with mechassault. i can understand if u dont consider them part of the universe but they were still pretty fun and mechassault 2 had pretty awesome gameplay and online multiplayer.

Just think of it as our version of "MW3 sucks pickles, BF3 is better!" or vice versa.

[Sarriss]

WithSilentWings, on 27 March 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

It's not that they're dumb--it's that the goal is to maximize short term profits and these decisions open up the game's market and often get more sales. Eventually I am hoping this won't pan out so well but as of today the best sellers are still Call of Duty clones. They don't care about games or gamers in the least. It is only by proxy because we're the ones with the wallets.

Publishers used to say "we can make this niche game because we like to be creative, people will buy it and we'll make money" but now they say "we won't make that niche game because we could spend the money on a pop game instead and sell 10 times as much". There has been a major exodus of talent from the major publishers in a very short time. Look at all the news about Kickstarter being used by HUGE names in the games industry to put together a sub-million dollar budget for their new adventure games etc. Look at the guy who made Minecraft offering to shell out the money to have Psychonauts 2 developed... Devs are realizing with systems like Steam (my fav, but there are other digital distribution systems) they no longer need a publisher to cover the costs of the production and retail world. That leaves one final thing: advertising--but with the internet and viral videos, you no longer NEED tv commercials on the superbowl to sell your game.

I think Free to Play is a huge thing on this front. I hate that a game like this can't get publisher support, but I love that many other games in the indie world etc. will now be able to succeed because of this model. I know that the first thing I will do when I'm allowed to spend money on this game is put down $50 as if it were a brand new PC title. Even if the game isn't perfect, I want to support this because it is and EXTREMELY FAIR system to the consumers, and allows the developers to hire staff and add more content in-line with the consumer's wants/needs.

Every last one of us can call out the list of games they pre-ordered or bought at launch that TOTALLY SUCKED--and yet, there is no way to get a refund (at least in Canada). MechAssault 2 actually stands out on my list--being a big fan of the universe I pre-ordered the limited edition. Turned out to be the MOST EXPENSIVE XBOX GAME I HAD EVER BOUGHT, coming in at $85 or so. Played it once, shed a tear, and when attempting to return it they told me they'd buy it back for $13. If it were Free to Play, I wouldn't have even needed to leave the house to know it wasn't a game for me.

I feel you whole heartedly - which is probably why I've become a product of the "steam era" and pretty much wait for all games to drop to $7.50 or $5, call it being cheap, call it being unsupportive of the game industry, call it whatever you want (hell I work in the game industry don't even get me started on some of this) but we have all been burned. I am happy, very happy, to support indie developers, one man dream projects (Evochron Mercenary comes to mind recently) and any other attempt to rekindle the ways of gaming old, or to push the envelope of creativity with new ideas and immense creativity. I love video games. Major publishers like EA and Ubisoft, don't need my money, little guys wanting to make something they've dreamt about for years, need my money and I'm happy to give it to them. I have completely forgotten what my original point was going to be.

Canadian return policies on games = poor at best.
Major publishers need to remember their roots (THQ is maybe an exception although uDraw may have killed them)
MW:O is the model of many games going forth and if they provide quality, creativity or just pure fun then they've earned my money.

Mech Assault is the defining reason Microsoft no longer has the license.
</end rant>

[Kenyon Burguess]

purists would be table top, then the mostly beloved pc-games...or at least parts of them. mech assault is like that third cousin who got caught in the horse barn late one night and NO ONE talks about her at the family reunions.

[WithSilentWings]

Sarriss, on 27 March 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

I feel you whole heartedly - which is probably why I've become a product of the "steam era" and pretty much wait for all games to drop to $7.50 or $5, call it being cheap, call it being unsupportive of the game industry, call it whatever you want (hell I work in the game industry don't even get me started on some of this) but we have all been burned. I am happy, very happy, to support indie developers, one man dream projects (Evochron Mercenary comes to mind recently) and any other attempt to rekindle the ways of gaming old, or to push the envelope of creativity with new ideas and immense creativity. I love video games. Major publishers like EA and Ubisoft, don't need my money, little guys wanting to make something they've dreamt about for years, need my money and I'm happy to give it to them. I have completely forgotten what my original point was going to be.

Canadian return policies on games = poor at best.
Major publishers need to remember their roots (THQ is maybe an exception although uDraw may have killed them)
MW:O is the model of many games going forth and if they provide quality, creativity or just pure fun then they've earned my money.

Mech Assault is the defining reason Microsoft no longer has the license.
</end rant>

We're definitely on the same page. It's not to say I won't support the games industry, just as you say. Tribes is a good example--it's currently in Beta and I have thrown in $30 just because it's fun, it's a fair model and they aren't taking the micro transactions to any extreme degree. It also lets me check out the full experience and hides nothing before I give them a cent. There are VERY FEW large game releases I'd spend $30 on.

This free to play idea is a huge disruption in the industry and it is seriously for the better as long as it's done fairly. The way it lets people jump in, have some fun, spend a few dollars and then give a bit of feedback as to what they'd like to see that would make them spend more money is absolutely perfect. The fact that much of this will allow the publishers to be cut out as the middle men (in what industry in the age of the Internet is a publisher necessary? there are very few cases) means we will have much higher quality titles for an equivalent number of sales.

With a publisher, you may need to sell 10 million units to keep a franchise going and in business. Without a publisher, 1 million sales may mean the same amount of money makes it into the developers pockets, and they can keep on truckin'

[destiny valkyrie]

Lorcan Lladd, on 27 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

That's like saying I wouldn't like apples because I don't like tomatoes.

thats the point. most people are basically saying that mechassault is bad because it was only "loosely" based on the mechwarrior universe, even thou the game is still good for what it is

[Stormwolf]

It's pretty intimidating for Mechassault fans to be confronted with hardcore players who have been following the BT universe for 10 or even 20+ years.

Especially the younger players who never even experienced the MW series prior to MW4 will be at a loss here. There is a whole universe which they will only just now get to explore.

There are tons of rulebooks, sourcebooks, novels and techical readouts. Those books depict a vastly different universe from the one depicted in the Mechassault series. Many of the oldschool fans feel cheated by the depiction and gameplay Mechassault had.

But the tide is turning now that Smith and Tinker got the license for computer games back. The current devs are oldschoold BT players themselves, so I don't think that we'll be disappointed.

Anyway, if there are any quesions about the universe or where to start, just ask.

Personally, I'd recommend newbies the novel Decision at Thunder Rift, it has a good depiction of what is going in the inner Sphere a few decades prior to the Clan invasion while explaining how the general technology works. I think that there was a PDF for it on Battlecorps

[Exilyth]

But... we aren't hating on Mechassault.

We're just expressing a not so slight dislike for Mechassault being referred to as a part of the Battletech universe. That, and Mechassault being brought up in discussions instead of [Mechwarrior1/2/2Mercs/3/4/4Mercs/Mechcommander1/2], titles which are much more true to the universe than Mechassault.

Sersiously, if I were hating Mechassault I would use harsher words than "they tried to create a more arcade style game in the battletech universe, but they failed completely at doing their research: Magical ammo/health boxes? Couldn't they just put in a repair bay?"

Mechassault, viewed in a vacuum, is a great arcade game.
But aside from the similar Mechs and Vehicles, it's not very battletech-y.

Edited by Exilyth, 27 March 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Mechassault = MarioWarrior

[destiny valkyrie]

Stormwolf, on 27 March 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Especially the younger players who never even experienced the MW series prior to MW4 will be at a loss here. There is a whole universe which they will only just now get to explore.

while i am a younger player and havent "experienced the mw series" i still love older games and probally know more about games made b4 2000 than you do. i love games like chrono trigger and SMB3. and the good thing about being a younger player is that i can adapt to new games and technologys easyer than you. ( althou i still love my super nintendo and nes)

and i would love to "explore" this universe that im "just now getting to explore"

[WithSilentWings]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

while i am a younger player and havent "experienced the mw series" i still love older games and probally know more about games made b4 2000 than you do. i love games like chrono trigger and SMB3. and the good thing about being a younger player is that i can adapt to new games and technologys easyer than you. ( althou i still love my super nintendo and nes)

and i would love to "explore" this universe that im "just now getting to explore"

Play Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries and you will have an idea of what this game is shaping up to be

[Name140704]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

why does everybody have a problem with mechassault. i can understand if u dont consider them part of the universe but they were still pretty fun and mechassault 2 had pretty awesome gameplay and online multiplayer.

When I was playing it and I heard, "The Puma is a variant of the Cougar I put together for anti-infantry operations", I had my last straw. Right on my back. SNAP. Took it back to the store in exchange for store credit. Sold my Xbox, too.

[pursang]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

why does everybody have a problem with mechassault. i can understand if u dont consider them part of the universe but they were still pretty fun and mechassault 2 had pretty awesome gameplay and online multiplayer.

Broad, sweeping statements are bad, mmkay?

[Colonel Bogey]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

im not trying to get u too accept mechassault as part of the universe im just saying dont hate it because its a spinoff from mechwarrior. while i agree that most the time spinoff games are generally sucky and are rejected there are some that were amazing games. its people like u that would hate luigis mansion and super mario galaxy just because they arent platfomers and there only loosely based on the mario series.
p.s. i loved those 2 games.

Lorcan Lladd, on 27 March 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

That's like saying I wouldn't like apples because I don't like tomatoes.

Actually yah. I can say that. You do not like apples because you also dislike tomatoes. Does not mean that it is true. People say lots of things, even when we do not mean to. Hopefully that means that the edit button is used effectively.

[Sarriss]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

while i am a younger player and havent "experienced the mw series" i still love older games and probally know more about games made b4 2000 than you do. i love games like chrono trigger and SMB3. and the good thing about being a younger player is that i can adapt to new games and technologys easyer than you. ( althou i still love my super nintendo and nes)

and i would love to "explore" this universe that im "just now getting to explore"

Destiny, have you played older PC games?

Possibly games like Battlezone or Earth Siege? I'm glad you have played older console games, trust me, there are some great, near and dear to my heart games that were only on console. However at my core I am and will always be a PC gamer.

Mechwarrior 2/3 Mech Commander 1/2 Earth Siege 1/2 Battlezone 1/2 Steel f'ing Battalion for Bioware for god sakes(!) are prime examples of great, early mech games (battlezone isn't really a mech game but futuristic tanks...and it's great go play it). These are many of the games that people who are fans of the Battletech universe grew up playing, or got their first taste of what Battletech had to offer. These are the defining games that many of us think of when we first found our love for mech combat. and have lead to TT players or fans of the books or whatever else Battletech. I, myself, will admit that the games are really all I've done to immerse myself into the Battletech universe, and I have been putting off buying and getting into the books for far to long, but that doesn't take away the fact that Mech Assault was a poor excuse of a Battletech game. If you enjoyed it, fantastic, lots of people did, if that game gets 10,000 people to come and try MW:O, power to them, if just 1 hangs around and enjoys what they find, then maybe it was worth it. But you better steel yourself though if you think that you won't receive some abuse for comparing MW:O to MA. MW:O is bringing old battletech veterans of any speciality out of the woodwork and they'll be damned if some kid is going to start spouting off against the first true Mech Warrior game to come out in nearly a decade.

You are allowed to enjoy what you want, but don't think MW:O was built to advance ANYTHING Mech Assault did.
</end rant>

[Catamount]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

while i am a younger player and havent "experienced the mw series" i still love older games and probally know more about games made b4 2000 than you do. i love games like chrono trigger and SMB3. and the good thing about being a younger player is that i can adapt to new games and technologys easyer than you. ( althou i still love my super nintendo and nes)

and i would love to "explore" this universe that im "just now getting to explore"

That's a little preumptuous there; you're not the only gamer here. From the sounds of it, especially how you say "b4-2000" like that was a long time ago (lol...), I'm definitely older than you, and I was playing both games you mentioned when they were out, not just during the emulation boom (when I played them all again). I've played Chrono Trigger too, beaten it at least three or four times straight through, meaning getting the Rainbow Sword (wasn't there a rainbow shell, too?), the upgraded Masamune, everything.

Don't get me wrong; it's awesome that you've taken an interest in that generation of gaming (especially since Chrono Trigger was probably the best of all the 16-bit RPGs... it might be a tossup with FF III (VI), but I don't think so). Still, you'd do well to remember that this is one community where being a nerd doesn't make you unique (it just makes you one of us; welcome! )


I grew up watching Star Trek: The Next Generation, becoming pro at Oregon Trail on the Apple IIe at school and later my games on the Sega Genesis, and a bit later after that PC games like EF2000 (Win95 version) and X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, so you understand the lulz I get at referring to pre-2000 like it was long ago . I swear it was just yesterday... I even had an Atari 2600, but it doesn't count since I was young, and it was used trash by then, around maybe '92 or '93; picked it up for $10 with about 30 games. The point is and I'm hardly old for this community (I'm a kid compared to half these guys), and even for a yound guy like me, "b4 2000" was like yesterday for me in gaming, or any kind of nerddom .




As for why the hate of MA, well it's not really hate so much as eye-rolling dismissal, and certainly at least a bit of contempt, but hate's too strong a word.


MA is an unsophisticated arcade shooter, like many I used to play (in real arcades ), so on its face, MA is just an unremarkable game that isn't particularly good or engaging. However, the use of BT lore was disrespectful, to say the least, and I'm hardly a canon purist. It's one thing to make a game about stompy robots, but this game took a very long-established, very deep lore, chewed it up, shat it out, mixed in a few different other kinds of poo, then took the refuse, and tried to pass it off as though it were "the next BT video game", giving it a story that presumptuously associated itself with the BT universe, but rewrote most of it, and not even very well.

There's also the whole sim vs "Baysplosions"-style arcade gaming that a lot of us are still pretty miffed about in general, but that's hatred over the general disappearance of sims, and so not aimed just at MA (MA just exemplifies it).

So I can definitely understand the dislike of the game, especially when people run around trying to claim it's canon (not you, and thank you for that, but many others have). The whole thing is kind of a slap in the face of the BT community on many levels.



We definitely look forward to you getting into the real BT universe

Edited by Catamount, 28 March 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[WithSilentWings]

I think a point that a lot of people are making is that being an oldschool PC gamer and an oldschool Console gamer are two VERY different things.

The mech-like games I was playing from 1995 to 2000 were:
Mechwarrior 2 et al, 3 et al
Terra Nova (my first PC game actually)
Earthsiege 1 + 2
Heavy Gear 1 + 2

Really, there was not much on consoles that compared, and if these games were put on console they were bastardized. Other great examples of games I was playing in this timeline that had no console equals:

Fallout 1+ 2
Doom series (bastardized on consoles)
Baulder's Gate
Various flight sim games


The PC really has always led the way--though I admit to spending WAY too much time on Goldeneye, the Halo series etc. but I always come back. At the moment, I have been without my Xbox360 for a few years (sold it) and I couldn't be happier--there is SO MUCH on the PC right now it's fantastic Also getting to play games that came out 3 years ago with their graphics maxed is not something you get to experience on console.

[Hawkeye 72]

Gremlich Johns, on 27 March 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

Mechassault = MarioWarrior

Great drinking game tho...

I'll chime in with my opinion (which is to say I'll agree with the 90% on here)

Mechassault was trotted out as the mech game to end all games. It was jumping into the millennium console scene with great graphics and what was supposed be the best online mechwarrior experience (lets face it, Netmech was great but was a pain in the *** to get going). There were a lot of expectations around it and its the original reason I bought an xbox.

Let me say that again- I spent 400$ for ONE mechwarrior title (dev's are reading that sentence and salivating)

Now my last mech game was MW3 until that because my crappy compys and MW4's mediocre reviews. SO to go from MW3 to Mechassault, with no lancemates, no open environments for combat, no customization, running over powerups, the clear bastardization of mech names and variants, the cheesyness of the voices, etc, it was a big shock.

There are some games that good graphics alone cannot cure. That isn't to say I didn't play many hours of grinder mode on multiplayer, but the experience was hollow and left me wanting more.

Today I would rather spend ten hours getting MW2: Mercs running on my compy again than simply put a disk in my 360 and play mechassault. I don't hate all of mechassault, I just loved the other titles more and don't want to see this new effort ruined. I've been waiting for a decade for the mech game we all deserve.

Edited by Hawkeye 72, 28 March 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

destiny valkyrie, on 27 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

and the good thing about being a younger player is that i can adapt to new games and technologys easyer than you.

This is a fallacy and too broad a statement.

While in some cases a younger player might have quicker response times, age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm every time. Also, not every "younger player" has skilz - most are drones