16 replies to this topic

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

So, What I'm really curious about is how much exactly will C-Bills and [game] currency effect on the gameplay? (This has nothing to do with P2W, stop it!) Are C-Bills part of the meta-game along with the "combat roles" i.e. Scout, Defense, etc. or will the currency be a major balancing factor in including rare Lostech or (soon to be) Clan Tech? Will this lead to only the most successful players indulging more expensive Clan weaponry or IS/Clan Omnimechs? How will players earn money, exactly? Will it be similar to gaining "xp" where you get paid a bonus for every kill/assist or objective completed? Will ammo,repairs, new 'mech/'mech bays be free of charge, or another expense? What about purchasing drop ships for Merc Units? Those aren't cheap!

Even deeper, will being in a specific House or Merc Unit lead to slightly less expensive weapons? For instance, House Kurita it may be inexpensive and common for most Warriors to be using CASE systems. But lets say a pilot in House Marik may have to pay a hefty price to get a hold of one for himself. Likewise with Autocannons from House Steiner, etc.

And just to go a little bit deeper into the rabbit hole, maybe each Great House / label of Autocanon, Laser, or PPC has very slightly different stats (less expensive ammo, versus more heat generated, longer range, better rate of fire...) possibly leading into a Supply/Demand scenario. Food for thought, I suppose.

Personally, my biggest concern is if that we must pay for ammo and repairs out of pocket, that will lead to only the best players getting the (game balance slightly, or canon followed vastly superior) clan weaponry and omnimechs (IS Omnimechs are a personal favorite, but JUST as expensive!) Really, what if your opinion on the subject? For the most part, outside of rarity, cost is really the only balancing factor between superior tech/ custom variants and specialized ammo. The idea of only the best affording to use the very best doesn't bode well in my mind. Seems to hurt the more casual player in the end, regardless of skill.

So many questions! I think we need a Dev Interview on just this subject alone!

[Nick Makiaveli]

Well we do know we pay for repairs after the mech is made functional again. As to ammo, and new weapons, I don't think there has been much released on that.

As to better players getting better gear...shouldn't they? They earned it, so they deserve to have it.

People like me on the other hand, we will have to plan for retirement, I mean Clan tech I plan on using cheaper mechs, or ones that are cheap to repair. Run as a scout mech for example and hope to do my job well and without getting blown up. Maybe branch out into LRM support if we don't have buy ammo or it's cost effective to empty the ammo bins.

Also, if you never use that small laser on your mech...don't repair it if it gets damaged. No weapons on your left arm? Go with minimum armor repairs on it to save cash. Granted this is just speculation, but I'm sure any decent/persistent player will be able to save up cash. If not, then you may have to pony up some real cash or do some serious thinking on why you suck at MWO.

[FinnMcKool]

Why the political hate speech?

After all you have very good and valid concerns.

we all want to know how this will work out, and I think

we all want as many and varied player base .

So is it because its a horrible Election year, and good

People of different opinions are ridiculed and insulted

By the political elite / Talking heads on TV ?

just please please leave it out of the Game.

[Morashtak]

from http://mwomercs.com/...ey-bryan-ekman/

InnerSphereNews, on 11 January 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Developer Interview 3: David Bradley, Bryan Ekman, Paul Inouye
...

[PAUL]
...
Lastly, addressing the Pay-to-Win argument that plagues so many F2P communities is something that we keep at the front of our design discussions. What is purchased with real world currency and what is purchased with in-game currency is the question that is in the back of my mind when looking at any item put into the game.

There’s a fine line between Pay-to-Progress and Pay-to-Win. Obviously we don’t want the latter but the dangers are there for every item we look at. What you may think has no implication on gameplay can and will have an effect in one way or another when it comes to anything that alters the properties of a BattleMech. We even run into this situation dealing with Information Warfare and Role Warfare items. All we can do is make sure that we’ve covered our bases and watch how things fall into place during testing/public beta testing.

I have faith in our dev team, beta testers and community. I seriously doubt your fears will be realized.

[William Petersen]

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

This has nothing to do with P2W, stop it!

I don't understand the idea of P2W in the context of this game. Even with a tech advantage across your whole team, if you're a 6/6 pilot, and your tactics are terrible, you're going to lose.

Seems to me, P2CutOutTheGrind is a little more accurate. Look, it's like League of Legends. You can buy all the shiny new champions as soon as they come out, but that doesn't mean your w/l is going to instantly shoot up to 90/10.



Now that I got *THAT* off my chest:

I would *looooooove* to see some manner of differentiation between the houses. It's a shame they can't really go head-long into it, bringing out a bunch of different chassis and maybe restricting their usage (or at least ready availability) to different houses. I mean, in canon, when you fought Liao, you expect to see certain chassis like ravens and I-don't-even-know-what-else-because-I-don't-like-Liao, If you fight against Steiner, you expect their scout lances to be Awesome, etc, but they can't, and that's understandable. And frankly, I'd rather play the game sooner than have that little bit of immersion satiated. XD So adjusting market values of specific weaponry is about the next best thing.

I also agree with you that giving the best gear to the best players is the fastest way to create a somewhat stiff entry barrier to newbies.

Edited by William Petersen, 27 March 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[GrimFist]

Well said Mora, so far I have more trust of the dev team vs. fear of it suckage at this point.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Nick Makiaveli, on 27 March 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Well we do know we pay for repairs after the mech is made functional again. As to ammo, and new weapons, I don't think there has been much released on that.

As to better players getting better gear...shouldn't they? They earned it, so they deserve to have it.

Oh, for the record I don't think the best players getting the best stuff is really a bad thing, I mean look at ANY other [relatively] successful game. The most dedicated players work their way up to the best gear, items, weapons, cars, etc. It gives a great incentive to have a player work for something in the future, and then benefit after achieving it. Personally, I foresee myself getting an Avatar or Highlander decked out with Clan Tech or LosTech (and that stuff won't come cheap, to say the least). I suppose my biggest concern will be if the Clan/LosTech/Omni Tech will follow canon exactly and be so superior that those who cannot save up enough money for it will be put off and stop playing altogether. Yeah I'm aware not everyone can be the best but does that mean that it will be black and white who will have what? Idk, I guess I'm just trying to get food for thought going here.

FinnMcKool, on 27 March 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

I still feel bad about hitting that guy in the leg with that missile

Btw finn, love the sig.

[Tryg]

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Oh, for the record I don't think the best players getting the best stuff is really a bad thing, I mean look at ANY other [relatively] successful game. The most dedicated players work their way up to the best gear, items, weapons, cars, etc.

There is a key point here that needs to be made, there is a very...very large difference between the 'best players' and the 'most dedicated' players. I am an extremely dedicated player in many of the games I played, put in lots and lots of hours, but you won't see me on the global leaderboards of any of them.

I would expect that dedicated players will be able to acquire whatever winds up being released, because if you're putting in the time, you should have access to the perks you've been working towards. However, just cause dedicated players have access to this sort of stuff, doesn't make them the 'best' out there. So I should think you wouldn't have to be an absolute pro to get the nifty gear when it's released, just need to put the time and effort in and be sure not to throw away C-bills on things you don't need.

[Solis Obscuri]

Tryg, on 27 March 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

There is a key point here that needs to be made, there is a very...very large difference between the 'best players' and the 'most dedicated' players. I am an extremely dedicated player in many of the games I played, put in lots and lots of hours, but you won't see me on the global leaderboards of any of them.

I would expect that dedicated players will be able to acquire whatever winds up being released, because if you're putting in the time, you should have access to the perks you've been working towards. However, just cause dedicated players have access to this sort of stuff, doesn't make them the 'best' out there. So I should think you wouldn't have to be an absolute pro to get the nifty gear when it's released, just need to put the time and effort in and be sure not to throw away C-bills on things you don't need.

I think the OPs concern is to what degree success in the game will determine access to more advanced/heavier 'mechs and better technology, and to what degree those more advanced/heavier 'mechs and better technologies grant a competitive advantage. Hopefully, the answer is that technology is nice, but not a deciding factor in every fight.

But frankly, we haven't had anything much revealed about how we earn C-bills, how much repairs cost, if weapons and ammo require replacement if used up or destroyed, to what degree we can upgrade and customize our 'mechs, etc. which makes everything complete speculation at this point.

I like the idea of some cost associated with repairs and replacement, especially for the more advanced and expensive 'mechs and technology, since it encourages some degree of thought and discourages crappy griefy tactics and so forth. It also makes victory and defeat carry some meaning, besides a drop back into a matchmaking queue. But in order to have a purely PvP-based game that works properly, you can't stuff people in broken light 'mechs with no remaining weapons indefinitely, so there will need to be some balancing factors. What those are going to be, I don't know. We just have to watch and see.

[Kaemon]

The only time the 'better tech, to better players' works is when we're not in a top-heavy model where there are more active 'better' players (i..e players with absurd time or money or both spent in game) and those players can actively affect the new player base (being of equal or even lesser numbers).

In fact, you could probably argue that if the heavy handed vets start even getting close to new player numbers, issues arise and player retention and new player subscriptions go in the tank.

No one wants to get pounded out of the gate, and you shouldn't have to, allow customization and different gear, but that doesn't necessarily make it 'better' gear.

If someone shoots me with an A/C 5 I expect it to do A/C 5 damage, it may reload slightly faster or aim slightly more quickly, but it should never (regardless of player level) hit like an A/C 10.

Oh one more thing, make it ungodly expensive for them, then even if I die, at least I know it cost them an arm and a leg to do it.

Edited by Kaemon, 27 March 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[FinnMcKool]

But I do have Time and money (just dont tell my wife)

OK more time than money, but I dont really expect much for the money I spend , it will be more a "Im grateful for a great game and I want to make sure it keeps going"

In fact I already have a lot of fun on the forums.

[Insidious Johnson]

You gotta remember the dev's are mostly from the People's Republic of Canada. They believe firmly in the redistribution of c-bills there. There will be no evil capitalist undertones, fret not! You can go out and chain suicide all day and someone else will pay for it! Awesome sauce! ....... NOT. Just kidding, i like the idea of micro/alternate markets for a variety of the same goods at prices reflecting the cost of goods sold. Also, it would be good to know or have an operations cost by employer sheet for mercs. After all, mercs are subject to taxes as well. Its all about how sexy the Laffer curve is in picking an employer.

[WolfSpider]

Well if you look back to Battletechs past in the 1st merc handbook the houses would get independent mechwarriors to join their side through the company store. They would help you pay for fixing your mech but then you are required to work for them. House Kurita and Davion were one of the worst offenders with this policy. That was a role playing part of the universe I hope they keep in the game. :-)

[Nick Makiaveli]

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Oh, for the record I don't think the best players getting the best stuff is really a bad thing, I mean look at ANY other [relatively] successful game. The most dedicated players work their way up to the best gear, items, weapons, cars, etc. It gives a great incentive to have a player work for something in the future, and then benefit after achieving it. Personally, I foresee myself getting an Avatar or Highlander decked out with Clan Tech or LosTech (and that stuff won't come cheap, to say the least). I suppose my biggest concern will be if the Clan/LosTech/Omni Tech will follow canon exactly and be so superior that those who cannot save up enough money for it will be put off and stop playing altogether. Yeah I'm aware not everyone can be the best but does that mean that it will be black and white who will have what? Idk, I guess I'm just trying to get food for thought going here. Btw finn, love the sig.

Ok, I think I read too much into what you said then. In that case, my bad and no hard feelings I hope Also, thanks for explaining and not going ballistic, all too rare on the Intarwebz. Not here tho, this community is full of win!

[William Petersen]

WolfSpider, on 28 March 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

Well if you look back to Battletechs past in the 1st merc handbook the houses would get independent mechwarriors to join their side through the company store. They would help you pay for fixing your mech but then you are required to work for them. House Kurita and Davion were one of the worst offenders with this policy. That was a role playing part of the universe I hope they keep in the game. :-)

You melt 16 tons,
And what do you get?
Another day older,
And deeper in debt.
Saint Peter*, don't you call me,
Cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store.


*=Steiner-Davion

[WolfSpider]

William Petersen, on 28 March 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

You melt 16 tons,
And what do you get?
Another day older,
And deeper in debt.
Saint Peter*, don't you call me,
Cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company store.


*=Steiner-Davion

ROFL

[Eidolon]

Question

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

How will players earn money, exactly? Will it be similar to gaining "xp" where you get paid a bonus for every kill/assist or objective completed?

Answer

Quote

Key to achieving this concept is a design that rewards players for participation, skill, tactical thinking, team play, and heroics in a way that is engaging to the individual and contributes to the overall community experience. These rewards take many forms, including in-game currency called C-Bills, experience points, and prestige. Players can also purchase items which make this experience more fun, engaging, or efficient depending on what matters to them.[/color]

http://mwomercs.com/...o-be-freetoplay

Question

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Will ammo,repairs, new 'mech/'mech bays be free of charge, or another expense?

Answer 1

InnerSphereNews, on 07 March 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Ammunition must be replenished after every match and can be purchased using C-Bills.

http://mwomercs.com/...warfare-part-i/
Answer 2

Quote

Your ’Mech can never be completely destroyed. Even when it’s shot to pieces, your team of mechanics and techies are skilled enough to restore it to a bare minimum, just barely functioning state. If you pay your repair bills, they’ll be able to repair it all the way up to a perfectly pristine condition.

http://mwomercs.com/...-4-role-warfare (7th question down)

Question

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

And just to go a little bit deeper into the rabbit hole, maybe each Great House / label of Autocanon, Laser, or PPC has very slightly different stats (less expensive ammo, versus more heat generated, longer range, better rate of fire...) possibly leading into a Supply/Demand scenario. Food for thought, I suppose.

Answer
I don't have a link or quote for this one, but the devs have stated repeatedly that all factions will have equal access to the exact same technology, except that certain 'Mechs may cost slightly more to factions that canonically do not use them frequently or produce them.

Edited by Eidolon, 29 March 2012 - 07:53 AM.