20 replies to this topic

[Kingdom Come]

I am really looking forward to using camouflage, although I am not sure it will have any practical application other than looking cool. What I would like to see is the ability to have a preset camo assigned to each map. I don't want to show up in snow camo on the wilderness map.

[dal10]

My mech is going to run in extremely bright colors. that way, all the brawlers see me, and then I can kill them.

[Thomas Covenant]

Funny thing is, the standard "dark grey" will probably be the best general camo.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Camouflage works by making objects appear flat and making the edges and borders seem irregular and indistinct. There is a sort of science to it, working against the natural functions of the human eye. Camouflage in mechwarrior should make it just a tiny bit more difficult for people to pick out individual components to target at range, which will be nice. Having the wrong camo for a map could be almost as bad as being brightly colored; so medium intensity, neutral, mottled colors should be best overall.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Forget paintjobs and camouflage, I'm going to get my 'Mech signed by Natasha Kerensky when the Clans invade.

What you really want is to make the more fragile elements on a 'Mech harder to tell apart from the rest - if you could accomplish this with a paintjob, it might help a whole lot against headshots, for example...

[Ranek Blackstone]

Lorcan Lladd, on 21 October 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Forget paintjobs and camouflage, I'm going to get my 'Mech signed by Natasha Kerensky when the Clans invade.

What you really want is to make the more fragile elements on a 'Mech harder to tell apart from the rest - if you could accomplish this with a paintjob, it might help a whole lot against headshots, for example...

On some mechs maybe, but not on others. Atlas heads are rather distinct, and the catapults cockpit is pretty much in the center of the CT.

[skullman86]

How about some razzle dazzle?

[Sinnersaix]

Pink Camouflage! Remember Traumschiff Suprise (Dreamship Suprise for not German ppl)

[8CH Trooper]

Camo won't be a real factor as the sensors(ECM's not with standing) will pick up the target within it's active range and the last patch makes it possible to target powered down Mechs. Let's face it, the outline of an Atlas is pretty hard to mask. At this point I can only see it being somewhat of a factor is if the target is motionless at the very limit of the optics. If the Dev's add a lot more back ground clutter to the maps with the right sensor package and camo it may be the difference in who sees who first and that might determine who wins and who loses.

[Sigismund]

Sinnersaix, on 21 October 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Pink Camouflage! Remember Traumschiff Suprise (Dreamship Suprise for not German ppl)

1st Marik Militia reporting!



Courtesy of this thread - http://mwomercs.com/...ed-concept-art/

Though I'd presonally don't want to see camo play a big technical role in the game (targetting etc.) considering all the wacky and awesome colour and paint schemes the inner sphere uses. (Just check that thread.) It should stay a purely visual thing and of course if you have an ECM and stay in the shadows good camo will always help.

Pre-set camos would be nice to have though, would be embarrassing to drop your lance of light scouts into a tundra with with bright green acid planet camo.

[Melcyna]

8CH Trooper, on 21 October 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

Camo won't be a real factor as the sensors(ECM's not with standing) will pick up the target within it's active range and the last patch makes it possible to target powered down Mechs. Let's face it, the outline of an Atlas is pretty hard to mask. At this point I can only see it being somewhat of a factor is if the target is motionless at the very limit of the optics. If the Dev's add a lot more back ground clutter to the maps with the right sensor package and camo it may be the difference in who sees who first and that might determine who wins and who loses.

Camouflage does not necessary only works to mask it's presence (which is indeed difficult if not near impossible in MWO, given that... well giant mech are not exactly something that can be any less obvious).

Dazzle camouflage for example (which is shown above with the ship photo) works not to stop ppl from seeing the ship, but to make it difficult to tell the ship's exact heading, orientation etc... when seen in motion from a distance.

For us this still serves a purpose because while the sensor gameplay mechanism in MWO can tell when a mech is present we still need to manually aim most of our weapon except the missile based and the sensor doesn't tell us their exact attitude (though we do know which is it's forward heading at least)

If we can't tell easily which part is which of the mech when it's in motion, then that's already a great benefit for literally zero weight cost since one of the most vital aspect of MWO is quickly targeting and disabling weakened section or dangerous weapon (especially ones mounted on the arms).

If the dazzle pattern for example can make it even slightly more difficult for someone trying to aim and calculate the lead for their autocannon or gauss rifle at us while we're moving (since the projectile weapons need a lead on the target like deflection shooting if fired at a moving target that is not going directly at or away from us) then that's also already a great boon again for zero weight cost.

Note that this works in MWO because MWO like battletech uses primitive targeting system that gives little to non existent vital information for making firing solution. IRL, dazzle pattern were not very useful with radar rangefinder entering service and other sensor that can tell precisely what the target's attitude, speed, etc are.

But in MWO we have none of such luxury and we make almost all our non guided shot literally like pre industrial age gunnery, ie: we got a crosshair/sight, and the rest we had to compensate with our own judgement and no tools to help gauge the lead needed, though we do have a rangefinder... they just simply didn't bother processing that information for us and we have to mentally calculate the lead ourselves.

Edited by Melcyna, 21 October 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[8CH Trooper]

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to put our choice of camo on the mechs, but in the game like real life camo is rendered useless by thermal optics and the closer you get to a target the less effective camo becomes. If current maps in beta are any indication almost all of the battles will be fought at close range, again rendering the camo ineffective. But they sure will look pretty before they blow up.

[Melcyna]

8CH Trooper, on 21 October 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to put our choice of camo on the mechs, but in the game like real life camo is rendered useless by thermal optics and the closer you get to a target the less effective camo becomes. If current maps in beta are any indication almost all of the battles will be fought at close range, again rendering the camo ineffective. But they sure will look pretty before they blow up.

True, but if you notice ppl using thermal optics generally used it to locate and snipe enemies (especially in foggy areas where otherwise it's somewhat difficult to see their location at long range) and less at actually aiming once the slugout commences.

Thermal makes it rather difficult to clearly recognize the parts of the mech in some cases particularly if it has taken a critical hit on the coolant as the coolant creates an impenetrable smoke that obscures the thermal. Even without it, once the heat is spiking up the mech glows like a bright candlelight which makes locating it with thermal easy, but clearly discerning it's parts less so.

SO, either way... it's a benefit.

if they are using standard view, it would theoretically help (either dazzle or infantry digicamouflage which serves to break up the outline) as an additional difficulty for whoever observing you in clearly estimating where exactly you are heading or which part is which during heat of combat.

If they used thermal to go around it, then that's still an extra advantage since you've essentially encourage him to use it (and with both the pros and cons of thermal) whereas you don't need to and can freely choose whichever is more suited.

Hell, if i could paint my Atlas with an IDENTICAL glowing skull face at the BACK of my atlas head, i'd do so too...

Edited by Melcyna, 21 October 2012 - 10:36 PM.

[deadeye mcduck]

skullman86, on 21 October 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

How about some razzle dazzle?

Yes, lets have all our mechs appear with dazzle paint schemes.

[Amanay]

Camouflage should be a function, when the Mechs that will blend with the environment, to disappear from the radar and be invisible even to thermal sensors, but that it did not disturb the gameplay - though it is only in a stationary state, so even normal ambush can arrange. A simple change of paint Mechs would be useless, because there is a thermal sensors, autoguider launch button ®, and just the approach you are found to no options. Coloring Mechs - let it be paint, and camouflage - camouflage.

[Melcyna]

For something that cost no weight though, that's a bit too much benefit gameplay wise...

[Logically as far as design goes though paint that makes the mech invisible to thermal would suggest that it traps the heat inside the mech, which would mean you get reduced heat dissipation performance for using the paint unless there is a special port or something that dumps the heat out which naturally will glow like a roman candle whenever the heat is vented out]

How exactly one will completely insulate heat from a mech that goes hot enough to burn itself inside out at high heat with mere paint is anyone's guess of course.

Similar issue arises with radar, gameplay wise if the paint can allow the mech to dissapear from the radar that's too much of a benefit for zero weight cost. And even if it has a weight cost it would have to be very heavy to justify and balance out such powerful effect.

[Again, logically not even radar absorbent paint and material can stop radar detection, they merely reduce the return signal and most of radar defeating technique comes from the geometric design]

[Hexenhammer]

Camo is all about style. Some want to be loud and proud and others will be subtle and subdued.

[Dersieger]

I named my CPLT-A1 the "Moo Cat". I'm looking forward to giving it an appropriate paint job that will strike fear into the hearts of my enemies:
http://goo.gl/cc0SV

Edited by Dersieger, 22 October 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Kdogg788]

I'm waiting to buy a Commando until I can implement a hot pink "Mind Warp" tie dye pattern on it.

-k

[GioAvanti]

Amanay, on 22 October 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Camouflage should be a function, when the Mechs that will blend with the environment, to disappear from the radar and be invisible even to thermal sensors, but that it did not disturb the gameplay - though it is only in a stationary state, so even normal ambush can arrange. A simple change of paint Mechs would be useless, because there is a thermal sensors, autoguider launch button ®, and just the approach you are found to no options. Coloring Mechs - let it be paint, and camouflage - camouflage.

They have this during the ***** right? But it does weigh a bunch and mech is required to have an ECM also...the mech is effectively invisible till they fire or get hit. Out of the scope of this game.