64 replies to this topic

[Righ]

I have to say I'm more than a little concerned about all the raving about PPCs. Every thread I follow about favorite 'mechs and 'mech variants seems to have a heavy overtone of pilots listing off how many PPCs they can cram onto their ideal machine.

Listen, PPCs are fricken awesome. Trust me, I've loved them since I first slammed one into a pirate Javelin's face. But there's other weapons. No really, there are. With so much emphasis on role warfare, I am genuinely concerned that battlefields will look like one big blue lightning storm. I'd like everyone to consider some alternatives to the classic Particle Projection Cannon, so that we can see some nice variety on the field.

Discuss.

[Long Draw]

ER PPC?

[MacabreDerek]

Until they find a practical use for Small Lasers, SRM2s, Machine Guns, etc. you're always going to have it skewed to the big guns. Or in some cases, how many guns a single mech can carry (Jenner and Stalker being two examples with rediculous firepower for tonnage).

It'll be the same for LRM20s, AC20s, and to a lesser extent Large Lasers. Higher punch value.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Before anyone says "Gauss"

The HvAC10 "Hyper Velocity Autocannon 10". Great range, great damage.

Similar damage and range, comes with AP.

http://www.sarna.net...y_Autocannon/10

[That Guy]

thats quite simple: most people here are most familiar with MW4, were all the heavy weapons got a huge buff, and the small weapons were nerf'd to uselessness (you need abut 6 medium lasers to do any decent damage).

but people will gravitate to the cheesiest mechs and weapons, what ever they may be in MWO

[DaZur]

While I completely empathize...

One does not bring a knife to a gun fight.

"IF" matches degrade into PPC fests... it's only because it's the dominate weapon on the battlefield...

That said, A lot of this speculation is based on previous MW iterations... I suspect until proven otherwise, PGI may have something up their puffy pirate sleeves that balances the issue.

[Righ]

MacabreDerek, on 27 March 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Until they find a practical use for Small Lasers, SRM2s, Machine Guns, etc. you're always going to have it skewed to the big guns. Or in some cases, how many guns a single mech can carry (Jenner and Stalker being two examples with rediculous firepower for tonnage).

It'll be the same for LRM20s, AC20s, and to a lesser extent Large Lasers. Higher punch value.

Small lasers are actually a bit of a staple for me personally. Any extra tonnage left from customization usually gets taken up by a SLAS or two. Every little bit helps. SRM2s seem to be a bit worthless without vehicles or infantry to fire on, but Machine Guns I feel are a great way to keep fire on a 'mech when up close and personal. It puts pressure on your foe. If s/he doesn't deal with you laying into them with twin machine guns, they'll certainly start to feel it. Yeah, it's more of an anti-personnel weapon, but used the right way it can chip off some decent armor.

LRM20s can be countered with good cover or AMS.
AC/20s have very limited range, so a good pilot will stay clear of any 'mech packing one of those.
Large Lasers produce significant heat, without the devastation of a PPC. I think they're a pretty balanced long-ranged weapon.

[Righ]

DaZur, on 27 March 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

While I completely empathize...

One does not bring a knife to a gun fight.

"IF" matches degrade into PPC fests... it's only because it's the dominate weapon on the battlefield...

That said, A lot of this speculation is based on previous MW iterations... I suspect until proven otherwise, PGI may have something up their puffy pirate sleeves that balances the issue.

Eh, I'm less worried about the PPC being overpowered and more concerned that the sheer number of teams that will utilize the PPC will cause a very dull patch of battles. The PPC ranks among the more terrifying weapons in 'mechwarrior, along with the Autocannon 20, Gauss Rifle, and Arrow IV, as it deserves to be. But as another pilot has put it already, a lot of people are coming from Mechwarrior 4, having no experience outside of it. As we know, MW4 really pushed pilots to use big 'mechs with bigger weapons, so I guess I'm just hoping that phases out quickly.

[rance]

I think people like them just because they're iconic. When I think mechs I tend to think of PPCs, ACs and LRMs. Personally, I like 'em all...and throw in a couple Gauss rifles. All the min/max'ers will have everything boiled down in a couple weeks anyway. Play what you enjoy!

[Righ]

rance, on 27 March 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

All the min/max'ers will have everything boiled down in a couple weeks anyway.

*Shudder*
God, I didn't even think of that. Starting to depress me.

[Steamroller Stig]

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Before anyone says "Gauss"

The HvAC10 "Hyper Velocity Autocannon 10". Great range, great damage.

Similar damage and range, comes with AP.

http://www.sarna.net...y_Autocannon/10

I would really love to see a long range cannon that is not closer to a machine gun. it would make the bushwhacker make more sense as a sniper, as it stands the AC10 dose not go far enough to be a sniper.

anyway the PPC is not an issue IMO it's a slow cycle weapon with projectile velocity, if done right it should be very difficult to use.

[William Petersen]

People forget we're not going to have the heat dissipation to handle a lot of PPC fire. Most 'Mechs of the 3049 era weren't designed to sustain fire with their PPC, it was meant to be fired a few rounds, then let your mech cool, or fired 'til you get in close and then use your other weapons. PPCs are good weapons with solid range, high damage, and ammo independence, but they generate a *lot* of heat. If PGI balances their heat to damage correctly, it won't be an issue.

EDIT: That said, I kind of find myself a little sad we're not starting a bit earlier than 3049, double heat sinks and zomgop ClanTech are just around the corner. >.<


EDIT 2:

mwhighlander, on 27 March 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Before anyone says "Gauss"

The HvAC10 "Hyper Velocity Autocannon 10". Great range, great damage.

Similar damage and range, comes with AP.

http://www.sarna.net...y_Autocannon/10

That's cool, but we won't have a HvAC for a decade. Gauss has been in production for 9 years.

Also, Gauss rifles are great, they're like ballistic PPCs, but they take up a LOT of crit-space, and while their ammo is inert, the rifle itself is not, and explodes for massive damage when it's crit.

Edited by William Petersen, 27 March 2012 - 08:46 PM.

[FinnMcKool]

Well truth is there is something other than PPC s , thats the AC20 , yep oh , thats about it though.

Edited by FinnMcKool, 27 March 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[fearfactory]

MechWarrior Online will be dominated by the following chassis (Light to Heavy):

Wolfhound
Crab
Black Knight
Awesome

These are the choices people who cheese it out in the board game make and I wouldn't expect any less.

Those who like to cheese it out but feel "better" about their choices:

Fire Javelin
7F Jenner
K2 Catapult
3S Banshee
Highlander...

I can go on and on. But, the easiest way to tell, "OMG why would you choose A because it uses B and B sucks!"

[Hakija]

If they're following table-top rules for damage values and so forth, I would expect medium lasers, AC5/10's and LRM's to be the kings here. MLAS's do great damage for their weight, and the others give you a bigger punch for while you're cooling.

PPC's, AC20's, and the other big guns look amazing, but they have too many drawbacks to be primary weapons. As mentioned above PPCs run too hot to be a main gun, and AC20's absolutely eat ammo.

[00dlez]

Balance is and always will be the most important part of multiplayer games... this is nothing new

[Namwons]

the reason ppc's and gauss are king of the battlefield is because they are long range, high damage, point impact weapons. with new laser mechanics, this will be more apparent.

[Dragonicism]

PPCs are not everything. I'm more fond of Flamers, personally: rush up to a medium or heavy 'mech and start flaming like mad. The true comedy is when you realize that they're so cheap to mount, weigh next to nothing, and put a lot of heat on a target. Cramming a 'mech full of those could actually be a valid tactic for scouts. There's just one problem, and that's what happens when it fails.

Weapon destroyed.
Weapon destroyed.
Weapon destroyed.
"Really?"
Weapon destroyed.
Weapon destroyed.
Weapon destroyed.
Weapon destroyed.
"SHUT UUUUP! I know I'm done!"
Weapon destroyed.
Weapon destroyed.

Ah, fond memories of Mechwarrior III... Fun stuff. Running up to an AC20-loaded Annihilator with an unarmored Puma and flaming it into a nuclear-powered mushroom cloud of death was true comedy. People raged at me for that.

Edited by Dragonicism, 27 March 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[William Petersen]

Namwons, on 27 March 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

the reason ppc's and gauss are king of the battlefield is because they are long range, high damage, point impact weapons. with new laser mechanics, this will be more apparent.

New laser mechanics?



EDIT: I'd kind of like to see 'really long' cycle times on all the weapons so that SRMs go back to being useful as crit-seekers. It would make weapon *volume* means something again.

Without, I can't really see a defined role for SRMs (or M.Guns, since there's no infantry), aside from a self-handicap by way of ammo explosion risk.

Edited by William Petersen, 27 March 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[DaMuncha]

I took down a Daishi in a Raven with 2 Small lasers. I totally out manuevered him.

Edited by DaMuncha, 27 March 2012 - 09:51 PM.