63 replies to this topic

[Yeach]

The best first mech to start off with is a medium mech specifically the Centurion.
All the other mechwarrior games did:
MW3 - started off with a Bushwacker
MW4V - started off with a Shadowcat

And why specifically the Centurion;
Because of its loadout which are the 3 weapons.
LRM10 which covers off the missile and long-range firepower
Autocannon10 which covers off the ballistic and medium-range
Lasers which covers the beam and short-range

The Centurion has the mix of all weapons that a rookie mechwarrior should be familiar with.

[Juiced]

I say let the people play what they want to play. First is simply because people should be able to play what tonnage they want to simply for one reason: Fun. If seeing the atlas go toe to toe with other mech in the vids made you all warm and fuzzy inside you should be able to get one straight from the gate and learn how to best pilot it.

The second is what others have said, you dont want to create a false progression. Third is mechanical. Simply put you earn XP against the type of mech you are driving. Dont force people who want to pilot heavy/assualt mechs to waste time getting XP in mechs they have no intention of playing once they "level" out of them. Fourth is also mechanical, Roles. People might envision their role. One guy might see his role as a defender, jump into an assult mech and throw on as much armor as possible, the other person might make a quicker medium mech that allows him to do a bit of run and gun and engage the enemy furthur from the base.

As for me im going to stick with a light. When i saw those jenners running around in the videos...yeah thats what i want. Also there is this. I mean who cares if an atlas kills a light mech, its a 100 ton death machine against something a quarter or a third of its tonnage. I however will be embarassing every heavy/assualt driver i can find (provided i dont suck majorly of course) by trying to destroy ones i find foolish enough to wander about alone.

Edited by Tehbob, 10 May 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Halfinax]

Thomas Covenant, on 10 May 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

How can you possibly show them what any amount of playing should show them otherwise?

Nice job taking that out of context. The bits you cut out were the example.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Perhaps we'll see many options to restrict certain tonnage mechs from matches to further give the other mechs a chance to shine.

[Adridos]

Devs stated long ago (we're talking about the first months after release) that we can start in any chasis we want.

It seems as a good system, but it may have changed.

[Jericho917]

I can’t wait to get my commando... but it makes me wonder if I should choose the atlas sell everything off and use the money to buy 3 commandos all with different loads.

Edited by Jericho917, 11 May 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[Mad Pig]

You will start with what you can afford.

[neodym]

Mad Pig, on 11 May 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

You will start with what you can afford.

but question is,what can we afford at start..... becose if they make on mech starter mech nobody will be using after they get c bills

[El Loco]

I hope the devs stick by their word and make every 'Mech available at start. I don't want to grind my way to the 'Mech I want to pilot, i.e. the 'Mech I think I'm best at piloting...
Based on the screenshots of the Mechlab this week, I guess we will start with a certain amount of C-Bills to spend on 'Mechs and customization. If you want to have an Atlas, you'll be stuck with its stock variant at the beginning. If you want to pilot a Commando, you'll be able to change its config as you please. This gives credit to the difficulty of mastering a light and highly mobile 'Mech like a Jenner... you'll have to find your perfect set up in terms of speed and weapon systems and that might take a while.

[zverofaust]

Quote

If you start with a light, it could/will lead to the assumption that there's a progression from light to medium to heavy then to assault. Were as the assaults are end game chassis and is what the player should be striving for.

This is a falsity. It is perfectly possible with today's technology to design a game that involves both linear progression in a traditional "advancement tree" and, and diversification of different capabilities of Mechs of all sizes that entice individual players to want to use different sized Mechs depending on their immediate gamestyle cravings. BF3 is an easily recognizable and popular example of this; despite the plethora of weapon and equipment upgrades available to every class unlocked in more or less linear fashion, everyone has their own preferences when it comes to what equipment they take. The M27 IAR, despite being the default weapon of the MG class, is one of the most popular. It isn't the fastest firing, isn't the longest ranged, has a small clip size, etc, but a lot of people prefer it because fine-tuned with various kit options it provides good all-round capability.

Ask yourself, if all Mech sizes are immediately available, what is MWO providing for the "carrot-on-a-stick" motivation? I like the feeling I get when I finally unlock something new and powerful, it gives me a sense of accomplishment and reward. Seeing my wallet slowly creep upwards until I finally have enough money to buy something does not give this sense of reward, quite the opposite in fact.

[El Loco]

The carrot-on-a-stick motivation of MWO will be the 'Mech and pilot skill trees unlocking new modules for your design. Advancing along these trees will keep me motivated for sure! And once I maxed out one 'Mech and/or my pilot tree, trying out a new 'Mech with a new skill tree will keep me motivated. I don't need to spend months on grinding enough money for my favourite 'Mech.

[Jonas]

I will have a Mech in each weight class. Depending on what is available. I mean I like the Awesome but I have never been an Atlas fan. As for the other classes I do like the Commando, Cicada, Centurion and both Catapults.

[Gremlich Johns]

I lay odds that: MW video game vets will take primarily mediums and heavies and the more ballsy will work lights. The "less familiar" will take heavies and assaults and the occasional player that ALWAYS needs a challenge will take a light (but they will be in the minority of the newcomers).

[Nik Van Rhijn]

At the moment I will probably be going for medium, my style doesn't suit lights.

[Gun Bear]

I like to stick to light and medium, I will jump to heavy or assault if needed but I like mobility more than massive firepower. the MW games aggravated me for essentially forcing you into heavy and assault 'mechs by the end of the game. I wanted to take my well built lance of mediums into the final battle but I couldn't do that short of playing on VERY EASY

[Lanc3rz3r0]

warner__, on 30 March 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I agree with Lycan too. An assumption that assault mechs are the target and some "end-game" should be avoided.

I think Piranha are trying to find ways to make all weight classes relevant with the role stuff, pilot abilities and so on.

Drop tonnage restrictions are also another tool for keeping all classes relevant but I'm not sure how they fit into a game where players have a garage of limited size to place their mechs.

In my experience with previous MW games, there were always players who given a free choice would take mechs of all tonnages. Personally I would take lights and assaults occasionally, liked mediums, but preferred heavies.

I feel like you, as a burgeoning mechwarrior should be given a rundown of the tactical purpose of every mech via maybe a tooltip, and be given the choice to pick, say, an atlas as your starting mech, BUT there should be also a warning saying something like "this is not a fast attack skirmishing mech" on assault mechs.

also, it might be a good idea to try and work out some kind of poll/test ingame for mechwarriors to determine which type of roll they would be best suited to (recon, fire support etc) and then once that result is in, some suggested mechs to pilot within that roll (from all weight classes)

[Redshift2k5]

We have some very important points straight from the horse's mouth:

Garth Erlam, on 17 May 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I disagree, but I see what you're getting at - for me, we want new pilots in Assaults. Why? They'll survive mistakes and learn. And as they learn, they'll realise that those light, quick 'Mechs are picking them apart, so they'll try something new. Stick a new pilot in a light, and he rounds a corner head-on at an Assault, gets quickly destroyed, hates his experience, moves on.

This isn't to say Assaults take no skill, merely that heavier 'Mechs allow mistakes where lights don't.

Imagine you are a new player, not just new to MWO but new to all of Battletech (there will be lots). Imagine how disheartened you would feel if you must take a lighter mech, and then in your first match *kapow* you're smeared by an Assault. It would be a huge turn-off to a lot of people. This game is getting a lot of press, and will attract a lot of brand new virgin mechwarriors, and their introduction needs to be as smooth as possible.

Mediums are great, and should be able to stand up on their own as a solid weight class, and PGI is doing a lot to make that true, if they do everything right starting with an Assault is not going to marginalize mediums .

[Kaemon]

Finally, scouts get their revenge!

Muhahahah!

[Owl Cutter]

I agree with the majority opinion that we should not be pushed toward or away from any particular weight class at any time, except by the perks we have due to our choosing to invest in them.  It's largely since IMO we should be hoping Piranha is successful in their effort to make a game where all classes are vital to an effective team most of the time but, even more than that, my opinion is based on the basic stance that good design results in the player feeling free to explore the world and make meaningful choices that are never restricted in arbitrary ways.  

I like to see a _recommendation_ for newbies to start with an upper medium-to-lower heavy 'mech as a "default" choice, though, since there are bound to be some who don't already know what they want to invest in first.  Others have brought up that heavier chassis will probably help slow things down to a manageable pace for better learning and enjoyment, but I'd like to point out a couple of likely advantages for the mid-weight 'mechs.  We can't know either way until the game goes live, of course, but...  First, mid-to-heavy 'mechs will probably be less specialised and more tactically flexible, which should be better for finding one's calling.  Second, they'll also probably be less powerful fire magnets due to that same lack of a very powerful specialisation.  

A general-purpose "filler type" trooper generally doesn't carry the same threat value since its specialty is simply resistance to being completely out of its element, as opposed to being able to help deliver a decisive blow when just the right opening presents.  In other words, which is the higher-priority target most of the time: the Atlas at the core of the formation presumably intent on doing what it's excels at, or a Vindicator that's just trying to lend an amateur hand wherever it can?  Which is better for sampling a little candy of each broad tactical type before deciding which to buy your first bagfull of?  It might mesh very nicely, with the "even" blend of attributes that makes for a good generalist also making for the lowest-priority target; it's neither super-easy to wail on nor weak enough to only need a few good hits nor especially threatening in any particular way.  

edit: I forgot to mention, if the game encourages some weight classes over others, it should recommend Medium most highly, then Heavy or Light, and Assault last, to hopefully pull the population toward a canonical distribution of weight classes, which is mostly flexible "work horse" designs- affordable medium ones and long-lived heavy ones.  

Gun Bear, on 13 May 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

I like to stick to light and medium, I will jump to heavy or assault if needed but I like mobility more than massive firepower. the MW games aggravated me for essentially forcing you into heavy and assault 'mechs by the end of the game. I wanted to take my well built lance of mediums into the final battle but I couldn't do that short of playing on VERY EASY

I feel the same frustration, but for tech level in addition to weight class: most of the tech upgrades are tradeoffs that don't render obsolete what they're based on, which gives a "_can't_ make 'em like they used to" vibe that I VERY MUCH LIKE.  I'm not a fan of how DHS and CASE make Intro-level tech distinctly weaker, because I'd just love to roll around in an "old-fashioned" but well-conceived 'mech that looks like it could date aaaaaaallll the way to the height of the Terran Hegemony, when the Battlemech was first perfected- like, the 2470's maybe?  If you enjoyed Cowboy Bebop, (I'm guessing there's a lot of overlap between fans of BT and Bebop.) I can point to Spike's spaceplane and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Edited by Owl Cutter, 22 May 2012 - 03:04 AM.

[Thomas Covenant]

Garth Erlam, on 10 May 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Hell, in terms of skill required (no offense, Assault lovers) Lights are a lot tougher. If I have a friend who's never played a game of Btech or MechWarrior before trying this game, I'm going to suggest an Atlas. High armour so he can survive errors in play, diverse loadout, slow enough he isn't fighting the controls, etc.

Imagine your first 'Mech, in your first game, being a 118 km/h light with Jumpjets.

Lights get into trouble easy but they get themselves out easy too. An assualt mech will have to live with each decision much more comitantly. Backing out is almost a non option often times, and larger weapons penalize much more severely for missing. You wait as your enemy gets free shots at something larger than the broad side of a barn.